RE: D/s versus BDSM

RE: D/s versus BDSM (Full Version)

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julietsierra -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 5:29:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: topcat To state that SM or B&D is only about the physical, or that D/S is not about the physical as well as the mental, betrays lack of experiance, and an exposure to poor instruction. And to paraphrase a really GREAT teacher, who's been around for a while and knows her stuff, "a submissive isn't always a masochist and a dominant isn't always a sadist, and you'd better know what you want going in, because if what you're NOT looking for is a sadist and that's who you decide to play with, you're going to be in trouble." - Vi Johnson Contemplating what we do, how we do it, and how things come out in the wash isn't necessarily an indication of poor teaching. It CAN be a genuine contemplation of where someone stands in this whole mix of what we do. I would never be happy with someone who just played but was only dominant in the bedroom. I could never be happy with someone who just did bondage. I couldn't be happy with someone who was a sadist but never activated my need to serve. I need the D/s portion, and when searching for that right person, it's important I know what I want. D/s on it's own becomes important. SM on it's own becomes important. Bondage on its own becomes important. M/s never was important - I never wanted that - I THOUGHT...and then as time went on, I discovered that for this relationship, I was dead wrong, and M/s is what I have as well as D/s. But I never see them all as intertwined, even though I see commonalities amongst them. And I have a GREAT teacher. (No, it's not Vi Johnson, what she said just happens to resonate with me. juliet

dawntreader -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 5:33:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: julietsierra I differentiate between D/s and bdsm. Yes, People can think of it as being all under one umbrella as SirKenin pointed out, but to me, D/s is also it's own umbrella. So, I tend to not think in terms of umbrellas, but in terms of Venn Diagrams, with two interconnecting circles - with room for more. One circle is bdsm, the other is D/s and where they interconnect is where those who think of it as all the same would find the similarities between bdsm and D/s. (Add another circle and you've accounted for M/s as well.) But there are also significant differences as you have pointed out as well. So, in terms of diagraming out what we do, a Venn works well for me. I tried a T model to attempt what SirKenin was suggesting and it just didn't work. Under this version, everything was either quite separate with no common areas of interest or so mixed up as to be unable to differentiate between what was going on, and without denigrating any side, differentiation is exactly what we do when we look for the type of relationship we want. At any rate, I do differentiate between D/s and bdsm. When we're fishing, we are still very actively engaged in a D/s relationship, but we are not doing anything identifiable as bdsm. The only slap you're going to hear is when the fish hits the deck after one of us has taken it off the hook. But when the fishing poles are put away and I am across his knee, or tied to a cross, or whatever else he has planned for me, we are engaging in bdsm. The fact is, he can put a bottom across his knee or a submissive or me - his slave. While we may all approach this activity from different points of view, the action is the same. However, it isn't D/s. D/s is what describes what's going on between us when he isn't spanking, or whipping or whatever else he comes up with. In our relationship, D/s doesn't stop with the end of a scene or when he goes home. It exists when I'm at work or driving in the car with him or alone or with my kids. It is the way we live our lives. juliet You and i think alot alike...i could not have said it better. And i love Venn diagrams ... They fit the spiritualist and the intellectualist in me :-)

NorthernGent -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 5:51:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: julietsierra We're doing this because we want to, not for the discipline portion of it all. juliet I agree wholeheartedly with this point. From my point of view, D/s is underpinned by an innate need to serve or to be served. This is what drives the power exchange (as opposed to discipline and force). I could discipline someone working for me in order to direct them towards the output I want to achieve. This is not D/s - they are being forced down a path rather than willingly serving my work-related needs.

topcat -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 8:22:08 AM)
quote: And to paraphrase a really GREAT teacher, who's been around for a while and knows her stuff, "a submissive isn't always a masochist and a dominant isn't always a sadist, and you'd better know what you want going in, because if what you're NOT looking for is a sadist and that's who you decide to play with, you're going to be in trouble." - Vi Johnson Dear Juliet- I thought that was much along the lines of what I was saying- that to not have a clear understanding of the most basic of terms we might encounter is a recipe for trouble. quote: Contemplating what we do, how we do it, and how things come out in the wash isn't necessarily an indication of poor teaching. I quite agree. The original post, to me, seemed to be a question why people use 'BDSM' and D/s interchagably, and if fact, I infered from the statement: quote: I was taught that D/s is about the psyche. It's about the emotional, psyhocological, and relationship aspects. BDSM is about physicality. It's a set of actions that can be used as tools to re-inforce D/s, but by itself is simply physical acts. that the poster was using 'BDSM' to refer only to B&D and SM, when in fact, 'BDSM' is an umbrella term used to incorporate B&D, D/s and SM in one short arcronym. The OP went on to use this mis-apprehension to question the poor quality of education in the greater scene. She also twice, once in the OP and once in a reply, states that she was taught that BDSM and D/s are two distinct entities. If a neophyte is being taught that BDSM is exclusive of D/S, they are being taught poorly. Stay warm, Lawrence

MasterGremlin -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 8:36:01 AM)
It has always been my understanding that D/s = Dominant/submissive and that BDSM = Bondage, Discipline, Sadism, Masochism. You CAN have a D/s relationship WITHOUT BDSM but most D/s relationships have at least some degree of BDSM. You can also have BDSM without necessarily being D/s. Now I have heard of some P/people defining BDSM where the B stands for both Bondage and Discipline and the D stands for D/s. Personally, I don't think that is an accurate definition nor does it make sence. But that is just my humble opinion. Cordially, minxy [:)]

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 9:19:41 AM)
I use them as separate terms. Bdsm is a set of kinks/activities (and a very limited set considering the broad spectrum of kinky stuff we actually get into) Ds is the relationship dynamic. That is how I use the terms. I also understand that many use them interchangeably. In fact I rarely ever use the term "bdsm" because it IS such a limited list and tend to just go for "kinky" and "Ds" to further distinguish the two.

MzMia -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 9:33:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I use them as separate terms. Bdsm is a set of kinks/activities (and a very limited set considering the broad spectrum of kinky stuff we actually get into) Ds is the relationship dynamic. That is how I use the terms. I also understand that many use them interchangeably. In fact I rarely ever use the term "bdsm" because it IS such a limited list and tend to just go for "kinky" and "Ds" to further distinguish the two. Okay I am pinching myself, I am quoting LA. I do agree with what you said. I use the term Ds to let others know about the dynamics of the relationship I seek or I am in. To me, Ds falls under the umbrella of BDSM. Also, there are many people like myself that are into Ds that are not into a lot of heavy S/m {edge play} activities.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 9:35:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia To me, Ds falls under the umbrella of BDSM. Also, there are many people like myself that are into Ds that are not maso's and not into heavy S/m activities. Ah, to me, Ds AND bdsm fall under the umbralla of "alternative lifestyle stuff." There are lots of Ds relationships that don't incorporate any bdsm other than discipline within them, and since ALL types of relationships incorporate discipline (as in controlled responsible behavior), then that really doesn't matter).

MasterFireMaam -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 9:57:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: woundedbird I've been looking for a topic that addresses the difference between BDSM and D/s. I see many people use the terms as interchangeable. I was taught that D/s is about the psyche. It's about the emotional, psyhocological, and relationship aspects. BDSM is about physicality. It's a set of actions that can be used as tools to re-inforce D/s, but by itself is simply physical acts. I realized that I was a submissive by examining my relationships. All of my relationships. And, it was the non-sexual relationships that made me see exactly how submissive I am. When I see people using these terms as interchangeable, it makes me wonder if people truly understand. Just because I let someone spank me does not mean there is a power exchange. And, even if I have a power exchange with another person, it doesn't mean our relationship is sexual. How many others see this and wonder how much education is really going on about D/s and BDSM? There IS a school of thought that teaches this. I use it because it works for ME. It says that Top/bottom (or BDSM) are physical roles, D/s are mental roles and M/s are spiritual roles. Of course, just because this school exists doesn't mean it works for everyone. Drawing a hard line for the community at large would be difficult. If it works for you, use it. If it doesn't, don't. Master Fire

MzMia -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 10:01:16 AM)
Humm I agree, Alternative Lifestyles IS the larger umbrella. Dang it, I do totally agree. You can learn something every day, it is nice to be able to see a bigger picture. A psychiatrist told me 20 years ago, I was a black and white thinker. I am still working on trying to see gray. A lot of this lifestyle seems to be in a gray area. TY

obey1 -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 10:12:48 AM)
Here's my $0.02. BDSM in my opinion is the umbrella. If we really broke it down you would see: B/t D/s S/m M/m. That is: Bondage/tied Dominant/submissive Sadistic/masochistic Masochistic/masochistic The D in BDSM covers the D/s relationship when it is treated as non-traditional. All relationships have forms of D/s inside them Schoolteacher/student, Police/suspect, but it can hardly be called non-traditional or even sexual.

SirDominic -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 10:59:03 AM)
maiden is essentially correct. BDSM is a catch-all phrase meant to cover the entire fetish scene by combining the two main styles, Bondage/Domination and Sadism/Masochism. D/s is Domination/submission and it is the overlying element common to both. Whether you are into BD, SM, or some style inbetween, there is almost always going to be some form of domination and submition involved. Namaste, Sir Dominic

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 11:01:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obey1 The D in BDSM covers the D/s relationship when it is treated as non-traditional. All relationships have forms of D/s inside them Schoolteacher/student, Police/suspect, but it can hardly be called non-traditional or even sexual. There's a major difference between relationships which have authority transfers INHERENT to them, and relationships which have authority transfer as the conscious FOUNDATION for them.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 11:02:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirDominic D/s is Domination/submission and it is the overlying element common to both. Whether you are into BD, SM, or some style inbetween, there is almost always going to be some form of domination and submition involved. Namaste, Sir Dominic See I don't see that. I've given floggings to people and it was just us having fun. They didn't transfer anything to me, heck we could have been braiding eachothers hair. Kinky activities do not inherently have any authority transfer dynamic within them.

porcelaine -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 11:17:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: woundedbird I've been looking for a topic that addresses the difference between BDSM and D/s. I see many people use the terms as interchangeable. I was taught that D/s is about the psyche. It's about the emotional, psyhocological, and relationship aspects. BDSM is about physicality. It's a set of actions that can be used as tools to re-inforce D/s, but by itself is simply physical acts. I realized that I was a submissive by examining my relationships. All of my relationships. And, it was the non-sexual relationships that made me see exactly how submissive I am. When I see people using these terms as interchangeable, it makes me wonder if people truly understand. Just because I let someone spank me does not mean there is a power exchange. And, even if I have a power exchange with another person, it doesn't mean our relationship is sexual. How many others see this and wonder how much education is really going on about D/s and BDSM? There was a time when I would ponder such things and even engage in mutual debate. However, I'm at a point where I've learned that our interpretations and definitions are individual and directly related to experiences, education, and personal opinions. Apply the same concept to making pasta sauce. A novice has one method that is completely satisfying. Whereas, a more experienced cook has another. Is either party wrong? Add a professionally trained person into the mix and you have another option. Yet each person is happy with the end result. The lifestyle is not static. It is ever changing and individualistic. As we grow in maturity and experience, we will transform our ideologies and practices. What once appealed may become stale. Those things that seemed forbidden may be attractive. Rather than worry about the state of other person's understanding, take pride in where you are and what you've learned thus far. porcelaine

obey1 -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 11:32:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross There's a major difference between relationships which have authority transfers INHERENT to them, and relationships which have authority transfer as the conscious FOUNDATION for them. I think you might be somewhat agreeing with me, but then again you could be disagreeing. If we took it even further back to the Declaration of Independence, the only INHERENT (unalienable) rights we were 'given' at that point in the CONSCIOUS FOUNDATION of our 'country' were life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."

LotusSong -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 11:37:16 AM)
This is how I define them: D/s: the relationship dynamic BDSM: the play and/or outward expression You do not need the one to be the other.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 11:41:32 AM)
My personal definition. D/s or M/s depending on the terms you prefer is the way the peole involved in a relationship view one another and their roles within the relationship. It is not a necessary facet for involvement in BDSM to be involved in a D/s r M/s relationship (or any other relationship for that matter) BDSM is the activities and relative kinks that people enjoy. It is the blanket term for al the things we get into that arent mainstream vanilla. It can be part of the greater relationship, it can be an occaisonal kick, or it ca be somehting engaged in that has nothing to do with relationship dynamics in any way shape or form. My 2 cents DV

SirDominic -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 11:42:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: SirDominic D/s is Domination/submission and it is the overlying element common to both. Whether you are into BD, SM, or some style inbetween, there is almost always going to be some form of domination and submition involved. Namaste, Sir Dominic See I don't see that. I've given floggings to people and it was just us having fun. They didn't transfer anything to me, heck we could have been braiding eachothers hair. Kinky activities do not inherently have any authority transfer dynamic within them. Tis why I said ALMOST ALWAYS.

griffn -> RE: D/s versus BDSM (1/28/2007 11:55:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: woundedbird smiles...but that's my point. I was taught one way, and it's a way that makes sense to me. While, yes BDSM and D/s do go hand in hand, one can, and does exist without the other. So, why are they thought of as interchangeable? Why do they fall under "one umbrella"? BDSM doesn't HAVE to be about power exchange, it can simply be a good time between friends. There is always some kind of power exchange if you are "doing" something to somebody else and they consent to it that within itself is dominance/submission =D/s. If you think its not go try to get a vanilla person to let you flog the living shit out of them or for that matter even bring a flogger out and see how they react. Ill bet you dont get a power exchange from them LOL.

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