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The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 12:09:43 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		A popular figure to the left-wing in America because of his speeches that bash Bush and US policy, the congress in Venezuela granted president Hugo Chavez power to make laws by decree. And many say he now has the power to change the constitution.

"Long live the sovereign people! Long live President Hugo Chavez! Long live socialism!" said National Assembly President Cilia Flores as she proclaimed the law approved. "Fatherland, socialism or death! We will prevail!"

Supporters say the move will finally allow Chavez to transform the country into socialism. However opponents say that Chavez is transforming the country into a dictatorship. He has full control of the congress, he has stacked the courts with his supporters, and he has taken off the air any media outlet that questions his policies. He recently started to make use of a new law that allows him to sieze private property.

Every page of history will tell you that giving that kind of power to one man is incredibly dangerous. If anyone has read history, you will know that Adolf Hitler came to power because he was voted in, and then the Nazi party gave him absolute power because he promised to transform the nation into a superpower. And he did this under the disguise of socialism.

The way that people of the left-wing favor this guy is amazing. It makes me wonder if you support this mad-man's push for absolute power. Because that is exactly what he is doing.
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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 12:18:40 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		So you think this is the birth of Fascism in South America? First of all I would not call this Fascism, second of all you need to research where Nazi war criminals went, Argentina, and a man named Peron.. laughing here.

Secondly, I would like you to research something called the Enabling Act and then contrast and compare it to the Patriot Act... since we are going to talk about Fascism and all, I think this would be extremely instructive to you.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 12:22:01 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		While I agree that Chavez is taking advantage of his recent election and endangering democracy in Venezuela, he can hardly be described as Hitler. Hitler was in charge of an advanced technological society and Chavez could not wreak such havoc on the world as Nazi Germany. However, if you are wondering why people voted for this left wing guy, look at what the right wing did for the poor, absolutly nothing.

No doubt if the Bush administration wants Venezuela's oil we will soon be being told by Washington that Chavez is a mad man and possesses WMD and he is developing nuclear weapons. Personally I hope his nationalisation plans work and that the ordinary Venezuelan people get some return for the wealth that is under their feet. I doubt though, Chavez doesn't come across as very savvy and if he is and he looks like succeeding, no doubt the US will sanction Venezuela. But they shouldn't, its none of their damn business how Venezuela runs its business as long as they aren't harming anyone else.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 12:25:04 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

So you think this is the birth of Fascism in South America? First of all I would not call this Fascism, second of all you need to research where Nazi war criminals went, Argentina, and a man named Peron.. laughing here.

Secondly, I would like you to research something called the Enabling Act and then contrast and compare it to the Patriot Act... since we are going to talk about Fascism and all, I think this would be extremely instructive to you.


Making laws by decree with no check on his power isn't fascism? Then what do you call it? Democracy? Give me a break. This man is a dictator. I knew it the very first day he was elected. And as every day passes, his actions only prove my initial fears even more.

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 12:30:38 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		It's for 18 months. While I think it is stupid for any assembly sidelining checks and balances to allow the executive to govern by decree, it is the business of Venezuela and time will tell if it was a stupid move.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6315819.stm

If you are Venezuelan, I can understand your worries, if you are American, I can only assume your aggitation is a fit of peak because he won't tow the American line.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 12:41:47 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

So you think this is the birth of Fascism in South America? First of all I would not call this Fascism, second of all you need to research where Nazi war criminals went, Argentina, and a man named Peron.. laughing here.

Secondly, I would like you to research something called the Enabling Act and then contrast and compare it to the Patriot Act... since we are going to talk about Fascism and all, I think this would be extremely instructive to you.


Making laws by decree with no check on his power isn't fascism? Then what do you call it? Democracy? Give me a break. This man is a dictator. I knew it the very first day he was elected. And as every day passes, his actions only prove my initial fears even more.


Again, research the Enabling Act and compare and contrast that with the Patriot Act.. it really is not that difficult.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 12:47:55 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

So you think this is the birth of Fascism in South America? First of all I would not call this Fascism, second of all you need to research where Nazi war criminals went, Argentina, and a man named Peron.. laughing here.

Secondly, I would like you to research something called the Enabling Act and then contrast and compare it to the Patriot Act... since we are going to talk about Fascism and all, I think this would be extremely instructive to you.


Making laws by decree with no check on his power isn't fascism? Then what do you call it? Democracy? Give me a break. This man is a dictator. I knew it the very first day he was elected. And as every day passes, his actions only prove my initial fears even more.


Again, research the Enabling Act and compare and contrast that with the Patriot Act.. it really is not that difficult.


Who said anything about the Patriot Act? When did the US Congress ever give the president absolute power to make laws by decree? They havn't. So stop trying to make false comparisons.

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 12:52:05 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

It's for 18 months. While I think it is stupid for any assembly sidelining checks and balances to allow the executive to govern by decree, it is the business of Venezuela and time will tell if it was a stupid move.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6315819.stm

If you are Venezuelan, I can understand your worries, if you are American, I can only assume your aggitation is a fit of peak because he won't tow the American line.


Hugo Chavez is currently in the process of removing term limits. At one point he said that he wished he could be president for 30 years. You think he will let an 18 month limit will stand in his way?

And I am an American concerned for the well-being of the world. It has nothing to do with "towing the American line." When I take a look at countries like Venezuela and Russia which are moving backwards and rolling back democratic reforms, it concerns me because the world is taking a step back.

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 1:04:34 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		cyberdude, you are making the assertion that Chavez is some sort of Fascist for changing the constitution without some sort of congress approving it and drawing a parallel to the birth of Fascism in Germany. Before one draws such parallels one should KNOW about how the fascists gained control over Germany. Bush has much more in common with how he pushed the Patriot Act through (analogous to the Enabling Act) than Chavez does...

So it might be in your best interests to learn about these things before making such assertions... I am just trying to give you a few search terms to help you on that quest of learning... peace

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 1:07:13 PM   
Cunnilingussub


Posts: 41
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline 		Chavez is going to make Castro look like Mother Theresa....at best.What the heck .. another Bush like President will invade his country in ...about 12 years and take over.After all  the USA do not go for dictatorship and may all dictator be warnned...shape up or watch your country be taken over by US MILITARY and hanged.

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 1:09:52 PM   
Cunnilingussub


Posts: 41
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline 		Freedom fighter for some are terrorists to others
Dictators for some are President for others

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 2:10:08 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

cyberdude, you are making the assertion that Chavez is some sort of Fascist for changing the constitution without some sort of congress approving it and drawing a parallel to the birth of Fascism in Germany. Before one draws such parallels one should KNOW about how the fascists gained control over Germany. Bush has much more in common with how he pushed the Patriot Act through (analogous to the Enabling Act) than Chavez does...

So it might be in your best interests to learn about these things before making such assertions... I am just trying to give you a few search terms to help you on that quest of learning... peace



bingo!  right on target imo.   In the immortal words of the illuminati "By The Numbers"


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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 2:57:59 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

cyberdude, you are making the assertion that Chavez is some sort of Fascist for changing the constitution without some sort of congress approving it and drawing a parallel to the birth of Fascism in Germany. Before one draws such parallels one should KNOW about how the fascists gained control over Germany. Bush has much more in common with how he pushed the Patriot Act through (analogous to the Enabling Act) than Chavez does...

So it might be in your best interests to learn about these things before making such assertions... I am just trying to give you a few search terms to help you on that quest of learning... peace



     Complete this statement, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts _________?"  This is another step towards that draft you are so worried about, especially if Chavez decides to fuck the oil companies (because, YES, we will go to war over oil).

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 3:36:39 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich


    Complete this statement, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts _________?"  This is another step towards that draft you are so worried about, especially if Chavez decides to fuck the oil companies (because, YES, we will go to war over oil).


While I agree with you about power corrupting, isn't that what American power does? If Chavez wants to nationalise the oil companies it is up to him. Russia is doing it and no one is threatening them with war but maybe Venezuela is an easier target?

Why does America always thinks it has rights to other peoples resources and that people should play the American way especially when the American way is forced on the people who object in the first place?

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to WyrdRich)
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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 3:42:24 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Since Chavez has been in power he has made friends with every possible enemy of the US including Iran, North Korea, and Syria. Oil has gone from $15 a barrel to over $60.

Believe me, if this trend continues, there WILL be a war. Much of the economy of the western hemisphere is right now fully dependant on oil, including the United States. And if Chavez creates some sort of unholy alliance that threatens our economy...say hello to World War 3.

This is why this is a significant move. When Casto dies in Cuba, the worry is that Chavez may try to take that country over. If that happends there will be a civil war there. And you can bet the bank we will be involved. The US has been interested in Cuba since the days of Theodore Roosevelt. We will not allow it to fall into the hands of some Bolivarian dicator of South America.

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 3:50:52 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Since Chavez has been in power he has made friends with every possible enemy of the US including Iran, North Korea, and Syria. Oil has gone from $15 a barrel to over $60.

Believe me, if this trend continues, there WILL be a war. Much of the economy of the western hemisphere is right now fully dependant on oil, including the United States. And if Chavez creates some sort of unholy alliance that threatens our economy...say hello to World War 3.

This is why this is a significant move. When Casto dies in Cuba, the worry is that Chavez may try to take that country over. If that happends there will be a civil war there. And you can bet the bank we will be involved. The US has been interested in Cuba since the days of Theodore Roosevelt. We will not allow it to fall into the hands of some Bolivarian dicator of South America.


At least you are honest and American animosity is about greed and not democracy. Even so, I bet most Americans think America is a peace loving, law abiding country. America's backyard is an awful big place. Ever thought why there is so much anti-Americanism in the world?

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 3:51:52 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Why does America always thinks it has rights to other peoples resources and that people should play the American way especially when the American way is forced on the people who object in the first place?



        I'm tired MC, and maybe even a bit grumpy, so I'll give the non-PC answer that is JMO.  Because we can.  Because we are a bunch of arrogant, self-righteous bastards.  Because the system of government we created and the economic principles we embraced have made us the most powerful force on the planet.  Because our economy is the world's economy, and oh yeah, we control the bread.  The rest of you really don't want to see us get genuinely pissed off.

      It's a long way from perfect, it isn't fair or just, but there you go.

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 3:58:20 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		To be honest there was no need to explain WR. Every dog has its day and every empire is invincible until it falls. Even America can make too many enemies and it's not losing wars that bring down empires but fighting too many wars, while the competition quietly grows.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 4:07:41 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline 		     You are completely correct, MC.  Change is inevitable.  I don't think our end is anywhere on the horizon though.  We are off our stride right now, and a bit out of shape.  Perhaps one of our excellent history buffs could discuss just how many times Rome emerged from crisis even more powerful, before they finally fell?

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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 4:24:02 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

A popular figure to the left-wing in America because of his speeches that bash Bush and US policy



Perhaps that is a problem because Bush and his idiotic policies deserve to be bashed?

Sinergy

p.s. Reminds me of all the peaceniks during the Vietnam Era accused of not being patriotic because they had issues with Vietnamese peasants being napalmed by US troops.  I personally do not want my name or support attached to such antics on the part of the military-industrial complex.


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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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