sleazy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MasterKalif
starshineowned...more than an uphill battle the way things have been going on now, I see it as a very unlikely option...if a sham democracy even took hold it would be very volatile and unstable, weak government. This is because the institutions, checks and balances are not present as they are in solid democracies.
And when the US was an emerging nation, with no established or solid democracy did people not pull through and create a stable government?
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While no one was able to exactly forsee the death and destruction that ocurred, knowing that a dictatorship that permeated everything in daily life, as well as a well-oiled-government machine that was ruling with absolute power for more than 20 years...when you topple a situation like that, there will be chaos...as well as for the fact that dictatorships maintain order by force...it was known that the Kurds in northern Iraq wanted autonomy or outright independence and that a removal of Saddam would mean a power vacuum. It is also true that Iran would have tried to influence the region and that by taking out Saddam, Iran would be reinforced as a power in the region. So the disaster was forseeable, even to political science students...it was talked about the differences among shiites and sunnis before the war even. Granted, no one could tell exactly how bad it would be, but there were red flags everywhere that it was an unwise idea from the start.
Again....the president is always in charge and the US system is a presidentialist system, while congress can check his power or oppose his plans...however it was "Dubya" who asked congress to declare war, it was not congress' idea and then a shy Bush who supported it....hence it is a presidentialist system.
But only for as long as congress and the president are in agreement
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Needless to say, the silly democrats did nothing to stop him and jumped in the victory chariot with him, lest they be seen as "unpatriotic". The press, the government spokesmen, together with the convulsed fear and anger of 9/11 led for the people to be pliable and accepting of this war. In short he is to blame because he did everything to push for war,
And the members of the house that could have voted against the war are blameless? Nope, If I am stood with a fire extinguisher and fail to put out a flame, am I not as much to blame as the holder of the matches?
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did it unilaterally (very consciously too) without his allies, and despite warnings from Colin Powell (inside the administration) and from friendly countries (outside of his administration), he chose to ignore those signals and went ahead, made his very shallow case for war...and I am afraid it was not bought outside of the US.
Sure it was, hell we even dragged out college reports and photocopies of Janes to help you sell the idea
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I clearly recall Bush stating initially that democracy in Iraq could be established in three years, and then the US military would go home, a short quick victory, which would ocurr from superior technology and forces....however this backfired as it was known it would since no democracy can take hold on such short time, with people who don't even understand what democracy is, less know how one works.
And the case history of every country that has overthrown a tyrant and started a democracy without external assistance would prove what?
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But you are right, what is in the past is in the past, its just that it is such a mess, and fairly predictable too.
This is however where I agree with you....the US cannot pull out now, it would make things worse...at the very least the US should abandon its lofty ideas of democracy imposed, and just vie for a friendly pro-western dictatorship, maybe bring back the former monarchy which was overthrown in 1958...
Two words for students of modern history
Shah
Iran
Now having said that, under Hussein Iraq was actually one of the more westernized nations in the region in many respects, such as legal systems, rights for women etc
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but as of right now I would hate it if the US pulled out as it would mean all those american deaths, Iraqi suffering and death in this violent period were for nothing.
However I do not think the US has remotely accomplished what it set to do...it has destabilized the region, has created anarchy and chaos in Iraq....to the point that neighboring countries are intervening as a security situation by their borders....any country would. Another mistake from Bush and the powers that be....you cannot rebuild if there is a semi civil war going on, and therefore the rebuilding becomes a showpiece to pretend that the US is doing good things...first security and order must be restored at all costs,
Agreed, however the restoration of law and order will require a lot more dollars, and a lot more blood
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secondly rebuilding, thirdly a soung government. A fiasco all around...I hope this administration learns and future ones as well that regime change means chaos and dragging down in foreign wars that make no sense. The US has certainly strayed from the original path of the founding fathers.
edited to add: In terms of Iran becoming a nuclear power....based on the precedents of other new nuclear power members...there will be a lot of complaining and gnashing of teeth, but no one will do anything, and the US government will not be so obvlivious and force their disarmament or invade Iran, because of the known consecuences...that is what will happen, and one of the reasons the US will not attack Iran now.
Israel is nominally an ally, Pakistan, India and Korea are not particularly threatening towards US or friendly states, there is a reason to just complain and not get physical. Imagine one theocratic nation ruling from Pakistan to Egypt, Yemen to the Caspian Sea. Give that nation a nuclear capability and the option of declaring the rest of the world apostate (a capital crime).
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