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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

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ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Using physical violence, only teaches children to be violent.
 
I could come up with an alternate 'solution' ... people that can't out smart a child, such that they have to resort to violence, are perhaps too stupid to have children.
 
In keeping with the constant search for fact-based argument ... can you provide any data at all, that suggests that children that were spanked, ended up being more productive members of society?
 
Or, perhaps this is just another one of those "back in the good ol' days", notions.  

Sure, we can do fact based. Lets look at violent crime ( in this case murder ) statistics in civilized countries that allow for corporal punishment of children. Japan, Greece, Hong Kong, the U.K., Canada, Italy, Spain, Germany, Australia, France, Norway, and Finland ALL have lower violent crime rates than America. The U.S. is 24th on the list, and all 33 countries below it on the list have lower violent crime rates than we do, and all allow corporal punishment of children. I left the underdeveloped nations off of the list, as well as the ones that have weakened governments which would reflect political reasons for increased violence.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

aSlavesLife:
I am not sure just how you draw the conclusion that beating your children reduces the murder rate.  Are there no other factors involved in the murder rate than whether or not they are allowed to beat their children?  Somehow I would have thought that there might have been other factors involved.  Maybe economic maybe social.  Are you sure it is only because they are allowed to beat their children?
thompson

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ORIGINAL: humiliationsissy

Spending more money than i make in a year?  So that makes you a wonderful person huh?  Giving money,my friend, is the easy thing to do.  The hard thing to do is to take job that pays shit a year because you know that your job is worthwhile.  Now while you may spend an hour or two here or there helping out, I dedicate my life to helping these kids out, big difference.
And how many up close examples have you seen?  I see them everyday.  I see the same kids who get arrested one day, coming back and doing the exact same thing right afterward because there is no fear.  We have children that assaulted another teacher and ever threw a desk at her, yet they received probation and were allowed back at school after a 15 day suspension.  Make no mistake about it, tough love is what these kids need.  I have more respect in my school than probably any other teacher because I aggressive with the kids and I push them to make the tough choices to get out of the wrong way of life.  While you give kids some baseball bats, i change the way kids live. 
Untill you walk into a work enviroment where you have 13 and 14 year old mothers, half of your students have parole officers, many have family already in jail, a couple of them have been raped, and then you go into their homes and see what they have to go through, then you can come back and talk to me.  Its easy when you can just donate a couple of hours every so often and write a check and it makes you feel all good inside.  But when you have to see it everyday, and live it, then I promise you, your opinion will change.  Its very easy to feel sorry for the kids, but that is not what they need.  They need structure, direction and discipline.  So untill you are ready to do more than just donate some time every once in awhile or write a check, but are willing to make the huge sacrifices such as taking a ridiculously low salary, despite have degrees from the University of Michigan (history) and a Masters from Teachers College, Columbia, then you can talk to me.  You have no idea at all what kind of lives these children have, nor what they need untill you get into the trenches as well. 

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ORIGINAL: Gauge

A beating and a spanking are two distinctly different things. When I disciplined my kids I sat them down and talked to them and explained what they had done and why I was going to spank them. This was not a prolonged thing it took just enough to provide a consequence for their actions... I never, ever let it go past a good sting. Funny thing... I get compliments all the time on how cordial and polite my kids are... and I have talked with them about their experiences with a spanking and although they did not like them, they understood why it was used as a tool for correction.

Same here Gauge.....on every point.  And now as adults, they have no regrets regarding my use of CP in this manner.

To me the irony on this subject is that we are involved in a lifestyle that includes spanking as a way of correcting our submissives. Perhaps we should all resort to a stern warning and then forbid them to play video games and hope to God that the submissive corrects their own behavior.



Daddysgirl

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ORIGINAL: sublindsay

A few quick thoughts:


I am a parent and I spank my child.  Try all you want, but a good "talking to" just doesn't really prevent a child from doing something they really want to do.  Americans have spanked their kids for decades, and I think most of us who have turned out just fine.  I would say that most of our greatest leaders like Lincoln, Eishenhower and Jackson got their fair share of spankings.
Being a third grade teacher implies that you are a college graduate.  As a college graduate you should be aware that Andrew jackson was a liar a cheat and a thief as well as a murderer.  His word was not worth the spit that came out of his mouth when he gave it.
If I remember Eisenhower was part of the group of thugs that "evicted" the bonus army from Washington DC at bayonet point...honest decent veterans seeking peacfull redress of their grievences with the federal government.

There is a huge difference between spanking and beating.  And anyone who beats their children isn't going to stop because there is a law against spanking.  There is already a law against beating, and since they do that anyway, what good is to stop spanking for them?

As a 3rd grade teacher, I can easily tell the students who get spanked and those that do not.  Those that have a little something to fear at home if they act up not only do better typically in school, but are also those that exhibit the best behavior in class and when dealing with adults.
I would think that respect is a much stronger motivator than fear.  My parents always made me aware that my actions reflected more upon my family than it did on me.  Now if you have no respect for yourself or your family then I would suggest that  the problem is deeper than a lack of discipline.

As far as people who believe violence to be a total evil, I like to just remind them (of course if they are not Christian then this does no good) about all the violence in the Bible.  A couple of my favorite passages, especially when it comes to spankings:  "He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) and "Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14).  Just something to think about.  
 
If I remember my old testiment correctly does'nt it also call for stonning to death children for talking back to their parents...kinda like when jesus did to his mom.


i have come to the conclusion that our society is becoming softer than fresh shit.  Where have all real men gone?  Did they die away with my father's generation?  I mean could you imagine the "men" of today being brave enough to charge the beaches in Normandy

You seem not to know too much about WW II either...as battles go Normandy was pretty much a walk in the park.  Unless your concept of the Normandy invasion is limited to movies like "Private Ryan"
like my grandfather's generation did (and this is no knock on the military, who are more than brave and capable of doing the job) but if you tried drafting men into the army today and had them do something like D-Day, half of them would try to get lawyers and the ACLU would probably be suing on their behalf.  You know its great that people can feel free to be themselves now more than back then, but damn it would be nice to have some good strong men, filled with honor, a sense of responsibilty and duty, and not the sense of entitlement that people feel today.  I think some of the opinions expressed by some of the writers in this very thread show the low standards we now apply to "men."

I thought when our forefathers commited treason against the Crown that they demanded entitlement...to Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness



And finally, in closing, I was lucky enough to find me one of the "real men" I was talking about.  He was a police officer for nearly 2 years before he was killed on duty, by a 15 year old punk who had been arrested twice before for assault.  People who want these punks to be treated like children are the very reason that he is dead.  Don't let these kids fool you and always remember to feel sorry for the victims, not the criminal, that is whats fucked up with our country today.

This is untrue...your husband is dead because a 15 year old criminal shot him not because civilized society believes that children should be treated like children...a child of 6 or 7 knows the difference between right and wrong but they seldome understand the consequences of their actions...that is why we should treat them as children .
 
Our country is fucked up today because it is being run by criminals not because some parents have failed at parenting.
thompson

 
 

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ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I just wonder, reading all the anti-spanking posts, as to how many who take that position have children?

And no, I dont spank, I explain. But I sure as hell would spank if the explanations hadnt resulted in two well behaved kids. Where else is there to go?

E