RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (Full Version)

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mp072004 -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 5:47:20 AM)

It's not necessary to have properly bottomed in order to top well. It's often not necessary to ask someone else to hit you to properly feel the toy in question. However, if you haven't hit/electrified/scratched yourself with the implement, how do you know that it would be fun to hit/electrify/scratch someone else with it? Knowing the exact sort of sensation each of your toys provides makes you a more effective top, because you know which toy to use to cause the precise sensation you want.

Monica




sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 6:01:13 AM)

A dominant doesn't have the same needs as a submissive so I don't think it makes them  a better dominant to experience the same things as a submissive. What purpose would it serve to improve them?



MagiksSlave -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 7:41:35 AM)

Actually the fact that my Master is a switch and has experiansed some of the things I have and even has some of the same desires as I do makes him in fact the best Master I have ever been with as well as one of the best I know. He truely can get into my head and by experiansing these things he can empathise and  my emotional and physical state arent faraign to him he understands them and well it just makes things better in my opinion.

Magik's slave



SimplyMichael -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 7:46:03 AM)

Anyone know of a medical school where the doctors undergo surgeries before performing them?

This thread is another of those "my way is better" ones.  You are either a kick-ass top or you aren't, simple as that.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 9:13:43 AM)

When this issue reappears, and it does similar to comets, I try to find a different way to express the same thought that I've posted previously. How's this...

To submissives...
Have you ever been sexually aroused by a spanking? Does the impact a specific implement, paddle, whip, flogger, cane, 2x4; have the potential of arousing you to the point, or over the edge, of climax? Does the application of clamps, steel toothed or the ones with rubber 'training-wheels', with or without weights; applied to tender areas of your body send your brain into a place commonly known as "sub-space"? More than likely if one or more of these results occur with these sensations you identify as a 'bottom' or 'submissive' or maybe you just enjoy it and don't concern yourself with any label. That's GREAT!, ENJOY, have a good time.

Now ask the same question to most identifying as dominants, tops, or sensation facilitators and most likely you'll get a very different answer.

The point is, you can use the mechanical robot that tests golf clubs to insuring the same power used and the brain of a dominant will not process the sensation as did the brain of a submissive. Further, it is doubtful that any two submissives will process the sensation the same way.

This makes any "test", self administered or at the end of a mechanical machine, pretty much meaningless.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 9:29:55 AM)

Once, while I was in a secret house  on a windswept coast of an unnamed European country, I found a secret room full of old leather books.  In one was the secret to becoming a "real" submissive.  It required several years of being a Dominant in order to learn what a dominant really needs so that when you find someone to serve, you know exactly how best to serve them.



juliaoceania -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 9:59:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to?


Ross

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bon_D_Age/members?o=6
Designermite
http://www.cafepress.com/designermite


I think I answered on a duplicate thread that was removed, which is ok because I would like to reanswer this.

Pain is perceived differently by different people, and even the same person can have a different response to the same pain stimulus on different occasions. I fail to see how it would be helpful for the top type person to experience an implement unless they wanted to.

I think it also bears mentioning that if a top does go out of their way to experience an implement to discover how the impact "feels", rather than building up with a new person on a case by case basis, well they could conceivably give themselves a false sense of security about the implement as it will be felt by someone else.

Just some random thoughts



MiladyElaine -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 10:15:19 AM)

I do not believe that you have to experience discipline to be a Domme first, no.
Like someone already said, each implement is going to be felt in different ways by different folk and I have no desire to experience purposeful pain!  Therefore I will not be submissive or a Switch for anyone.



Squeakers -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 10:20:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to?


Ross

   I think the answer to this is going to depend on who is asked.   But  I know that my Dom knows exactly how that flogger, cane, paddle---feels on my skin because he has experienced it himself.   Is he a masochist? No.   Did I watch?  Nope.   Would I want to? No.   Do I feel it enhances His skill? Absolutely.      By the way---subjected seems sort of harsh---experienced sounds less threatening.       



Squeakers -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 10:30:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Anyone know of a medical school where the doctors undergo surgeries before performing them?

This thread is another of those "my way is better" ones.  You are either a kick-ass top or you aren't, simple as that.
    I think that if Dr's were to experience what their patient experiences may give them a bit more compassion.   I have read often that when Dr's have experienced some procedure themselves that they have preformed on a patient they are a bit more compassionate and tolerant to a patient's needs because they have experienced it themselves.   
   I don't see this is a 'my way' is better thread.    If it doesn't work for you---then it doesn't work.   But if you tell your submissive that you aren't really hurting her with that paddle, she should have the right to question---"And how the fuck would you know?" [:)]



MagiksSlave -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 10:48:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

When this issue reappears, and it does similar to comets, I try to find a different way to express the same thought that I've posted previously. How's this...

To submissives...
Have you ever been sexually aroused by a spanking? Does the impact a specific implement, paddle, whip, flogger, cane, 2x4; have the potential of arousing you to the point, or over the edge, of climax? Does the application of clamps, steel toothed or the ones with rubber 'training-wheels', with or without weights; applied to tender areas of your body send your brain into a place commonly known as "sub-space"? More than likely if one or more of these results occur with these sensations you identify as a 'bottom' or 'submissive' or maybe you just enjoy it and don't concern yourself with any label. That's GREAT!, ENJOY, have a good time.

Now ask the same question to most identifying as dominants, tops, or sensation facilitators and most likely you'll get a very different answer.

The point is, you can use the mechanical robot that tests golf clubs to insuring the same power used and the brain of a dominant will not process the sensation as did the brain of a submissive. Further, it is doubtful that any two submissives will process the sensation the same way.

This makes any "test", self administered or at the end of a mechanical machine, pretty much meaningless.


Actually no I have never been aroused by pain or climaxed by pain in fact for the most part I dont like it very much (though at times i do need it but thats complicated as I have stated in other threads) But Master is a sadist and loves giveing it and probubly more so because I dont love it..

Magik's slave



SimplyMichael -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 10:49:36 AM)

Squeakers,

Western medicine has many faults, it was simply an analogy.  Again however, if what you say is completely true, how can women doctors treat men and vise versa?

I aint' never had a pussy but I am quite sure I eat pussy better than many lesbians.  I bet you suck cock better than most men.  Get the point?

The whole problem with with the whole "you must experience it first" is that it ignores the fact that different people feel things differently.  If I hit people and based their reactions on mine, there would be a lot of bored women around because I fucking hate pain and they love it.

What makes someone talented is their ability to read another's reactions and who have the ability to guess what might make things different "tonight".  Are they on the rag, rough day at work, distracted, worried, horny, whatever and how will that affect their experience and then beating them accordingly.

Oh, and I HAVE bottomed and all I learned was that it had nothing to offer me other than what NOT to do and I knew that anyway.



sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 1:08:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Anyone know of a medical school where the doctors undergo surgeries before performing them?

This thread is another of those "my way is better" ones.  You are either a kick-ass top or you aren't, simple as that.


For once I totally agree with you. Experiencing the other side does not make one a better dom.  It not one way or the other. It is what ever works for that person.



Squeakers -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 2:13:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Squeakers,

Western medicine has many faults, it was simply an analogy.  Again however, if what you say is completely true, how can women doctors treat men and vise versa?

   I never said it was completely true---what I said was it may---



sfhumiliate -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 3:34:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to?


This should be standard procedure. 



Mercnbeth -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 3:54:11 PM)

quote:

Actually no I have never been aroused by pain or climaxed by pain in fact for the most part I dont like it very much (though at times i do need it but thats complicated as I have stated in other threads)


Magik's Slave,
Point taken and next time responding to this question I'll be sure to add; "...that some have complicated reasons for needing pain." Has your Master ever expressed such a need?

As complicated as it may be you still point out that bottom line, those that seek pain process the sensation totally different than those seeking to give it. Therefore, as subtle as the different mental process may be, it is different; making comparing the sensation meaningless.



sfhumiliate -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 4:50:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Anyone know of a medical school where the doctors undergo surgeries before performing them?

This thread is another of those "my way is better" ones.  You are either a kick-ass top or you aren't, simple as that.


NOPE.

It is not quite that simple. 

You mention medical school.  That's a good point.  Doctors go to school for several years.  They don't just start doing surgeries on their own because they are kick-ass doctors.  They learn, they study, and they learn some more from other doctors.  They don't get to do surgeries on their own until they have watched and assisted other doctors doing surgeries for years.

So yes, a top doesn't have to feel what the implement does.  The top doesn't have to be a switch.  But the top does need to learn how the implement works.  And one way to do that (some say the best way to do that) is to use the implement on yourself.




Wildfleurs -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 5:10:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

  I don't see this is a 'my way' is better thread.    If it doesn't work for you---then it doesn't work.   But if you tell your submissive that you aren't really hurting her with that paddle, she should have the right to question---"And how the fuck would you know?" [:)]


Charming.... My owner would so appreciate being told, "and how the fuck would you know?"

For us my owner is fairly connected to me during a scene (and vice versa) and my reactions are pretty obvious... so for us its pretty clear how the fuck he knows whats going on with us.

C~



MadRabbit -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 5:13:32 PM)

For me and my experiences, yes and no.

I was really curious as to how the pain felt with putting on and removing a clothespin. After I did it, I found out it was just like everyone was telling me...hurts at first, then fades away, then hurts when you take it off. Did this make me a better Top? I dont know. I was able to relate to and understand the pain, but I already knew how it worked and knew all the safety issues.

I have tested my candle wax on myself several times and learned some really groovy ways to drip the wax. But at the same time, I have learned some other really groovy ways to drip the wax by simply watching how my sub responsed.

Same goes for my paddle, flogger, and crop. I have managed to use them all on myself to get an idea of how they feal, but that still didnt stop me from having bad techinque when I did use them. I realized I had bad techinque from the subs responses and corrected it, not from the self infliction. I would like to be on the receiving end of a real beating with these instruments, but its more to satisfy my own curiousity of the experience rather than for educational purposes. I have already used all three toys with success 



ownedgirlie -> RE: Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to? (2/7/2007 6:28:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The whole problem with with the whole "you must experience it first" is that it ignores the fact that different people feel things differently.  If I hit people and based their reactions on mine, there would be a lot of bored women around because I fucking hate pain and they love it.


Good point and in addition to this, what hasn't been addressed (or if it has, I missed it) is the mental/emotional aspect.  I actually hate pain too, but the power I feel from him and the emotions his control over me elicit are nothing he would be able to relate to.  For me the entire experience takes into account its overall meaning.  Unless a dominant can become motivated, inspired, aroused and fulfilled by being overpowered and...well...dominated by another, what good does experiencing an implement do?

My two cents.



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