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Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 3:44:27 AM

meatcleaver

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Putin took the gloves off yesterday and accused the US of starting a new arms race and questions the US's need to position misile sites on Russia's borders. He also accuses the US of encouraging countries into seeking nuclear deterents to protact themselves from a US that doesn't observe international law.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2010462,00.html

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 6:53:21 AM

Dtesmoac

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I don't think Putin is really a very convincing example of following International Law or not threatening neighbours. But again it shows that the actions of the US over the last few years allows almost anyone to appear statesman like and plausible when they verbally attack the US and US policy. For Russia and China driving a clear wedge between the US and it's many allies around the world is a primary foreign policy goal, this appears to be working due to the US's policies rather than Russia / China's.
The Sunni Arab states are on a military spending spree at the moment, not to support the US but to take a more clear armed neutrality position in the stand off between US and Iran. In the EU there are now perhaps for the first time a serious consideration of effective military forces seperate to Nato / US (not the current Euro Brigade which doesn't even have transports to get anywhere) which would be a precursor to a possible European "Army". And of course Japan with its focus on rearmament. The US has been advocating much of this spending in the past but not within the context that it will be seperate and may not be allied to US military organisations.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 7:06:25 AM

sharainks

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As an American I have to say that I believe that this country is on the wrong path. These incursions into other countries because we find something we don't care for are scary to say the least. I have to wonder who told our govt. that it was up to them to decide what is acceptable for other countries?

I don't particularly blame anyone or any country for wanting to protect themselves from the US at this point. That saddens me. I don't want the country I live in to be viewed as some kind of malevolent super power. Yet that seems to be the perception of many other countries including those who used to see us as allies.

Hopefully the next election will present us with a leader who will institute some changes.

(in reply to Dtesmoac)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 7:28:26 AM

Dtesmoac

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I've mentioned on a number of previous posts what I find most worrying is that individuals who used to have a fairly postive even pro US sentiment now genuinly have very little regard for the country. This is not just in a few countries it is very wide spread. It also has nothing to do with the "envy" often stated by US citizens. Also within the US there is still a very large proportion of the population and even the government officials who do not realise that the US does not have a monopoly on world power and is now economically linked and dependent on much wider global relations than it was from the 60s through to the 90s.
A genuine combined front of Europe, USA, Japan, combined with friendly relations with the Sunni Arab states of the Gulf and Cordial relations with the worlds Largets Democracy (India) provides, economic, resource, political, conventional military and nuclear military power to ensure that rising powers and rougue states are moderated. The real problem now is that the US Global brand has been so tarnished that it can be included in ridiculous comparisons and lists of Evil with countries / organisations such as North Korea, Iran Taliban etc without automatically sounding stupid to main stream politics in other parts of the world.

(in reply to sharainks)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 7:37:51 AM

NorthernGent

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Sharainks,

That was a good post. A spot of self-examination is healthy.

I'm thinking of the British, French and German governments and these leave a lot to be desired.

My perception of the US government is that in principle they're no more corrupt than those stated above. The issue with the US government is they have the power to organise corruption on a grand scale which the other 3 couldn't pull off (due to resources and consequent influence).

The US government is a serious threat to world stability, there is no doubt about this. Similarly, so is the British government as a consequence of acting as US agents in return for a commission.

(in reply to sharainks)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 7:38:44 AM

caitlyn

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No, it has nothing to do with envy.

The United States is obviously having some struggles right now. We have made some mistakes, and are having some hard times with it. Trust me, we know this. We will elect a better leader next time.

Some people see a constant need to poke at these things ... only cowards kick you when you are down.

(in reply to Dtesmoac)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 8:34:13 AM

farglebargle

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"not to support the US but to take a more clear armed neutrality position in the stand off between US and Iran."

I think you misspelled "in the US attempt to commit fraud in order to conduct another War-FOR-Profit against Iran."

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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Dtesmoac)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 8:35:15 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

As an American I have to say that I believe that this country is on the wrong path. These incursions into other countries because we find something we don't care for are scary to say the least.

Those are nothing compared to the invasions of countries BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO FIND.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to sharainks)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 8:36:24 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

I've mentioned on a number of previous posts what I find most worrying is that individuals who used to have a fairly postive even pro US sentiment now genuinly have very little regard for the country.

It's not the country we're contemptuous of, it's the criminals at large residing and working at the White House we are contemptuous of.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Dtesmoac)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 8:42:26 AM

Gauge

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What was the US expecting to happen? We start a war that was in truth unfounded and unjust and then we bitch that the rest of the world is a little pissed off about it?

Bush may well go down in history as the worst President that this nation has ever seen. NorthernGent stated very nicely that the US is a serious threat to world stability, that comment alone should scare the hell out of every American.

Caitlyn, I would not call what the US has done a "mistake" I would call it a blunder of epic proportions... we will pay for this blunder for many years to come. Once you have the "bully" label it is very hard to shed it.

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(in reply to meatcleaver)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 8:48:13 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

Caitlyn, I would not call what the US has done a "mistake" I would call it a blunder of epic proportions...

I call is Conspiracy to Commit Fraud in violation of 18 USC 371.

That is a CRIME People.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Gauge)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 12:15:41 PM

caitlyn

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Yes, it does look like is was even a bigger blunder than anyone imagined. That changes nothing in my mind.

The one good thing, is that I think we know who our friends are now, and who talks a good game when they want something. A pretty shitty way to learn a very hard lesson. My honest hope is the next time Europe self-immolates (and it will), we threat them with as much understanding that they are treating us now.

Egotistical bastards ... we should have let the Soviets have them.

(in reply to Gauge)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 12:42:09 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Yes, it does look like is was even a bigger blunder than anyone imagined. That changes nothing in my mind.

The one good thing, is that I think we know who our friends are now, and who talks a good game when they want something. A pretty shitty way to learn a very hard lesson. My honest hope is the next time Europe self-immolates (and it will), we threat them with as much understanding that they are treating us now.

Egotistical bastards ... we should have let the Soviets have them.

"love on the roocccckkkks......"

Is this the "special relationship" fucked then, Caitlyn?

Say it ain't so. I'm expecting first class hospitality when I make it over there......wouldn't like to think all the love is one way.

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 12:44:27 PM

caitlyn

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No, we're good ...

I just want to see if some of your puck-ass countrymen can both dish it out, AND take it.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 3:12:35 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Yes, it does look like is was even a bigger blunder than anyone imagined. That changes nothing in my mind.

The one good thing, is that I think we know who our friends are now, and who talks a good game when they want something. A pretty shitty way to learn a very hard lesson. My honest hope is the next time Europe self-immolates (and it will), we threat them with as much understanding that they are treating us now.

Egotistical bastards ... we should have let the Soviets have them.

Jimmy Carter and even Clinton said, Europe is not heard in Washington nowadays and that is not a good thing. You can't blame Europe when Washington doesn't listen. Apart from Blair, just about all Europe said invading Iraq was nuts.

I doubt very much Europe will self immolate again and if you think it will I think you are out of touch with Europe and I don't see it as ignorant that Americans think it might, Blair has the same problem but British Atlanticists have never understood Europe and never will. Europe is reluctant to join in with American adventures because it knows damn well how such adventures end up. Britain still thinks it won WWII as does the US, they didn't, they were on the winning side.

If Russia sited defensive weapons in Cuba, I think the US would see it as an act of aggression, surely even you can see that.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 2/11/2007 3:15:52 PM >

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 3:59:24 PM

caitlyn

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I wouldn't listen to Europeans either. The basic thought process seems to be, attempting to hold United States to a much higher standard than you hold yourself.

As far as the lovely new mood in Europe ... things are good right now. Lets see what manifests once things are not so good ... and would of curse point you to your own history books.

Basically, with friends like you, we really don't need enemies.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 4:23:34 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Basically, with friends like you, we really don't need enemies.

The US has never wanted friends, it wants lapdogs and it has one in Britain and Britain is finding out what that means to its cost.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to caitlyn)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/11/2007 4:28:49 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I wouldn't listen to Europeans either.

Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. I think that is three wars the US would have done well to have listened to cautioning voices.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to caitlyn)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/12/2007 5:54:37 AM

Dtesmoac

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I wouldn't listen to Europeans either. The basic thought process seems to be, attempting to hold United States to a much higher standard than you hold yourself. Don't really see this as the case. As with all politicians they all lie and squeal when tough decisions need to be made - look at the actuasl action as opposed to rhetoric in Europe on Carbon emmisons. But if your friends can not tell you the truth who can?

As far as the lovely new mood in Europe ... things are good right now. Lets see what manifests once things are not so good ... and would of curse point you to your own history books. Which countries / continents havn't? And of course with German efficiency, French intransigence and British Stupidity Europe always does it wy to long and way to spectacularly.

Basically, with friends like you, we really don't need enemies. ..... :) no you need friends like us so that you stop making real enemies

Some ammo for you to throw at the Brits ........... trying to make agrements in Afghanistan has back fired spectacularly......... how are you going to supply Europes power needs if America doesn't keep the supply comming from the middle east, .......... what would be occuring in the Balkans at the moment if Nato (Europe) copuldn't call on American Air Power ........

(in reply to caitlyn)

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RE: Putin accuses the US of starting a new arms race. - 2/12/2007 6:29:37 AM

NavyDDG54

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Putin's chief complain about an arms race is America's development of missile defense systems, because he doesnt have the money to develop his own. A missile defense system is vital to National security in this day and age, with N Korea, China, and Iran all making extreme progress in ICBM's, Nuclear weapons, and other such weapons. Without a working missile defense system the US will be vunerable, the Patriot system is somewhat effective against coventional missiles, but cannot be used on an ICBM(inter-continental ballistic missile). I think your attitudes will change when an Iranian ICBM(which they already have, ones that can reach all of Europe, even london) is in flight, you will sure be glad when the American defense system is installed in Europe.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

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