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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

!
Western Civilization and culture: corrupt, evil, and damnable.

Everyone else:  poor people!

Your ideology is showing.  Again.

FirmKY

PS: MsSticks, Ireland is the bomb! 

No. I'm fucking pissed off with western culture because I'm part of it and it does things in my name. If I was an Arab, perhaps I would be pissed off with Arab culture.

The EU threw money at Ireland for years (basically German and British money), it should be doing well.  Then Ireland voted against an EU treaty that would redistribute money to other poor EU countries. I guess that is democracy, fuck everyone else.

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1

"The EU threw money at Ireland for years (basically German and British money), it should be doing well.  Then Ireland voted against an EU treaty that would redistribute money to other poor EU countries. I guess that is democracy, fuck everyone else. "

This is an interesting quote.  It implies that Ireland should do as it' told, because it was given money/help.  That there is something wrong about the people of Irelands decision.

Yet this same poster has many time explained that Europe owes nothing to the USA at all.  No allegiance of any kind is deserved for helping them out of WW2, and protecting them from the Soviets. 

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Ireland has a large cultural resurgance that predates the EU investments.  They helped, but those investments could have come from anywhere.  Do not forget that all of those investments return Money to the investors, back in thier home countries.  France and Germany made money off of Ireland, just like investments in China or Africa, that are often refered to as imperial exploitation/similar terms by a group of posters on here.  The Irish created a safe educated nation of diligent workers, ready and willing to take full advantage of the investment.  They do not owe France or Germany squat.   edited to add---except for political and/or economic deals they agree to.  They do owe more than squat, but if it ain't in a contract they don't owe it.  No allegiance/inherent inferiority.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

If you were Jewish, it would be called "self hatred".  Hatred, of any sort, tends to blind people to facts, and destroys the ability to reason.  Not a good prescription for enlightenment or rationality.

And the reason that Ireland is so wildly successful isn't because the EU "threw money at it", it's because the government and the people embraced capitalism, and an economic system that allows them to flourish.

They owe their success to no one but themselves. 

They are a good lesson in "how things work" that more European governments (and people) should pay attention to.

FirmKY

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Because the USA doesn't in anyway believe in any international treaty that might one day lead to the construction of an international court that might try US citizens.

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And there are two reasons the US will oppose any international criminal court:
1. It would violate the US Constitution. The US Constitution states that the Supreme Court is the highest law of the land.
2. The US would be the target of political persecution.

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1. Covenient 2. Bullshit It would mean Presidents would have to consider the possiblility they might end up being tried for war crimes if they started an illegal war. Well, let's be honest, laws are to stop illegal acts, that is not persecution.

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LOL Look how the USA was created, bloodshed and conquest and genocide! The USA has proved to be no better than Europe and to point at history to justify present adventures is a laugh! The1812 war was the first US imperial war when it tried to annex Canada so the idea the USA somehow believes in blissful isolation is an even bigger laugh.

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1


The Irish created a safe educated nation of diligent workers, ready and willing to take full advantage of the investment.  They do not owe France or Germany squat.  

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

1. Yes, sovereignty is always inconvenient to those who want to fuck over others.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b
2. It would mean that Presidents would be hamstringed in acting in the best interests of the country. It would mean that those who control the court would have the power to persecute political and economic rivals. You don’t seriously believe that an international court would be corruption free, do you? What if America ends up controlling the court, will you be in favor of it then?

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LOL Look how the USA was created, bloodshed and conquest and genocide! The USA has proved to be no better than Europe and to point at history to justify present adventures is a laugh! The1812 war was the first US imperial war when it tried to annex Canada so the idea the USA somehow believes in blissful isolation is an even bigger laugh.

You need to brush up on history. I won’t deny the USA is not without sin but then who is? As for the War of 1812. We did not draw first blood. Britain did when it armed Indian tribes along the border and incited them to attack the U.S. Britain also violated the Treaty of Paris when it failed to turn over several fortifications it was required to. Britain also attacked U.S. shipping and impressed (a nice word for enslaved) U.S. sailors and merchantmen.

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ORIGINAL: MzMia
No Child Left Behind has been a huge failure.
The American Schools overall are failing miserably.
The Failing Educational System in America!

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Unless you are Iraq of course. And maybe Iran and who knows, Venezeula?

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LOL All that was sorted out but used as an excuse to attack and annex Canada, rather like the WMD excuse in Iraq. I'll have to find you the book in question, written by an American historian who wanted to put right his country's jingoistic history.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

That whole Jewish self hatred stuff is bullshit. As an acquintence of mine says when he hears that phrase, it is about shutting Jews up who don't believe in the Zionist crap.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

A country can embrace capitalism as much as it wants, if it hasn't got an infrastructure, investment or a market, its going nowhere.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The Irish are enthusiatic believers in the EU because they know he EU played a big part in Ireland's success. Now if you want to hear the alternative view of the EU, you might be better off asking NG.

1.   Many outside observers attribute Ireland's success in improving its standard of living over the last 15 years to subsidies from the EU. In fact, though, EU subsidies do nothing but hinder consumer-satisfying economic development.  Source.

2.  The European think tank WorkForAll studied the factors involved in the differential growth rates of European countries, and concluded that 93% of Ireland's differential economic performance was attributable to improvements in taxation and decreased public spending beginning in 1985. Source, Source.

3.  Some external observers are inclined to ascribe a large part of Ireland’s success in the 1990s to EU economic transfers, but their role can be over­stated. EU membership has been very positive for Ireland, providing market access, enhancing Ire­land’s national status, and contributing to the bud­get. While net receipts from the EU averaged 4 percent of GDP over an extended period, studies have shown that these contributions added about 0.5 percent per year to the growth rate, while the growth has averaged over 6.5 percent per year since 1987. Comparable transfers were made to other poorer EU states, such as Greece, Portugal, and Spain, but none of these countries achieved similar growth. Source.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1


The Irish created a safe educated nation of diligent workers, ready and willing to take full advantage of the investment.  They do not owe France or Germany squat.  

You're dreaming pal. The Germans are the largest contributors to the EU. The largest per head are the Dutch. Britain also contributes a hefty sum. Guess where the Irish government raised funds from - the EU.

I've nothing against the Irish, they're a sound bunch. Facts are facts however.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

1.   Many outside observers attribute Ireland's success in improving its standard of living over the last 15 years to subsidies from the EU. In fact, though, EU subsidies do nothing but hinder consumer-satisfying economic development.  Source.

2.  The European think tank WorkForAll studied the factors involved in the differential growth rates of European countries, and concluded that 93% of Ireland's differential economic performance was attributable to improvements in taxation and decreased public spending beginning in 1985. Source, Source.

3.  Some external observers are inclined to ascribe a large part of Ireland’s success in the 1990s to EU economic transfers, but their role can be over­stated. EU membership has been very positive for Ireland, providing market access, enhancing Ire­land’s national status, and contributing to the bud­get. While net receipts from the EU averaged 4 percent of GDP over an extended period, studies have shown that these contributions added about 0.5 percent per year to the growth rate, while the growth has averaged over 6.5 percent per year since 1987. Comparable transfers were made to other poorer EU states, such as Greece, Portugal, and Spain, but none of these countries achieved similar growth. Source.

FirmKY

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The EU threw money at Ireland for years (basically German and British money), it should be doing well.  Then Ireland voted against an EU treaty that would redistribute money to other poor EU countries. I guess that is democracy, fuck everyone else.

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ORIGINAL: MsStick

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The EU threw money at Ireland for years (basically German and British money), it should be doing well.  Then Ireland voted against an EU treaty that would redistribute money to other poor EU countries. I guess that is democracy, fuck everyone else.

So it's EU money that has made us care for our children?  What a load of shite!  Irish culture traditionally has a very strong childcare element, particularly in rural areas where community is still stronger than anything else (which can have its downside too).

Really don't know where you are coming from here. No one mentioned anything about that.

The EU can throw money at any country it likes, Ireland voting against the Nice treaty (which is I presume what you referred to?) has no impact on that.  The people voted against LOSING OUR NEUTRALITY which was the main concern with the Nice treaty from Ireland's sake.  Of course, our govt is as corrupt as anybody elses, and our esteemed leaders decided we obviously made a mistake with our first vote, caved to EU pressure and made us all vote again, with added brainwashing and scare mongering to steer the sheeple in the direction they wanted Ireland to go.    In that second vote, proud Ireland bowed Herself to the EU's demands. 

My feelings are if you don't like the EU, leave. Britain has the same attitude but for some reason they refuse to leave too.

Of course, our people's determined neutrality isn't worth a damn thing to Ahern and his ilk, who willingly bend over for Bush and the CIA to use Shannon as a stop-over for military and political missions.  But that's a whole different story.

If you want neutrality perhaps you shouldn't join an organisation such as the EU and remain neutral like Switzerland.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The surprise really for Ireland is that it had taken so long to perform, most small countries in western Europe of comparable size are far richer.