Putting it straight AGAIN (Full Version)

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RiotGirl -> Putting it straight AGAIN (3/13/2005 8:24:26 PM)

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ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/13/2005 8:36:04 PM)

great post RiotGirl!

i couldn't agree more with you.




domtimothy46176 -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/13/2005 8:41:16 PM)

I'm still waiting for the line, "And who are you to judge what's right and wrong?" It seems everytime the idea comes up at least one "enlightened" individual will post that line. Although I did see the "walk a mile in my shoes before you judge me" line in another post on cheating.
I like the simple approach myself. You make a commitment to someone, you live up to it. If things change and you can no longer live up to your obligations then, at the very least, you owe the person you committed to an honest explanation. If you can't or won't leave your marriage, for whatever reason, than do what you promised to do and be who you promised to be.
It's a simple concept, it's called "sucking it up". It's the same thing you do when you're horny and the kids wake up from a bad dream and need comforted. You delay your gratification in order to honor your commitment.
It's what you do when you want that new sports car but the kids need braces or the kitchen table needs replaced. It's called being responsible and doing what you're supposed to do even if it's at odds with what you want to do. It's also a fundamental requirement for dealing with a submissive that needs to trust you'll look after her best interests even when what she needs deprives you of what you want.
I don't think it's that big a mystery. Maybe it's just me and my funny ideas about life. One thing I'm certain of, though, is that those who make excuses for slipping around aren't nearly as understanding when they find out someone's been slipping around on them. Kinda like how liars don't appreciate being lied to and thieves aren't fans of getting ripped off.
Timothy



RiotGirl -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/13/2005 9:03:04 PM)

Access denied.



perverseangelic -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/13/2005 11:02:39 PM)

Well, I'll be the one to say it.

But I'm not going to say it like Timothy did.

Here's what I want to say---

Why does it bother you so much? Why does it anger you to the point of needed to lay down the law?

Yup, I think it is wrong to go outside a relationship without the explicite knowledge of the partner. However, while I think that's wrong, I don't quite see the point in preaching my morality.

I guess it seems to me that as long as no one is being harmed (which would require action on the observers part) if you don't like it, ignore it.

I feel the same way about all the threads on financial domination. If you don't like it, ignore it. Why do you need to tell everyone how evil and bad they are for doing something that is wrong?

Yup, I think cheating is wrong, so I will not invovle myself with people who are cheating. If you don't like it, don't do it, and don't associate with those who do. What's the point of coming into the forums and declaring it?



domtimothy46176 -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 12:16:56 AM)

Ahh, but how many threads do you see where the OP is preaching about the immorality of cheating? It doesn't happen much if ever. The usual pattern is an OP asking how to do it better or make it more gratifying or otherwise seeking some form of tacit approval. My position is don't publicise it if you aren't willing to have it discussed. It's no different than anything else posted for public discussion on the boards, is it?
And for the record, it's my position that the unknowing spouse is always harmed by the cheating spouse. She's being deceived and robbed of the attention and the fidelity that was promised to her. Her marriage is lessened by the cheaters actions.
To say that she isn't harmed because she doesn't know is analagous to saying she's not a crime victim if she doesn't know that her stuff's been stolen/her car's been stripped/her house has been vandalized, etc. The injury is still there, whether she knows it now or finds out tomorrow or next year. I don't jump up on my soapbox and shout it to the world but these are my beliefs and when the subject comes up I will feel just as free to share my POV as the guy whining about how the wife he won't leave doesn't need to know he's screwing around.
I will rest easier knowing that some of the newbies that wander in here may be reassured that some of us do, in fact, have standards of right and wrong in our daily lives than I ever would keeping my mouth shut out of a misguided need to be as inoffensive as possible to people I radically disagree with. I have never told anyone they can't do whatever foolish thing they want to do but I have no compunction at all explaining precisely why I would not take that path.
My personal POV is that cheaters should slink back under their slime-covered rocks and hide their disgraceful cowardice from the light of day. I do not, however, flame them when they choose to post about their adulterous affairs, telling them they have no business masquerading as doms and subs nor do I tell them they have no business talking about their shameful behavior among decent people.
On the contrary, I respect their right to say what they will and do what they will, regardless of how wrong it is. It's only when they choose to open their choices to public discussion that I make my opinion known. Even then I hold myself to a clear standard of civil discourse.
I would reverse your question, if I may. What's the point of coming into the forums if you aren't willing to speak up about your values, your beliefs, your thoughts, comments and opinions? It is a forum for the exchange of ideas and information, why would yours not have as much value as anyone else's?
Timothy



malepleases4ever -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 12:29:47 AM)

Question: why won't you narrowminded cowards castigate the op for her highly judgemental opinions on infidelity, when my posts sensibly suggesting that men should not eat menstral waste were roundly criticized?

If this forum weren't free, I'd be pissed...



SweetDommes -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 1:18:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: malepleases4ever

Question: why won't you narrowminded cowards castigate the op for her highly judgemental opinions on infidelity, when my posts sensibly suggesting that men should not eat menstral waste were roundly criticized?

If this forum weren't free, I'd be pissed...


Your post was far from sensible - it was rude, and uncalled for ... a simple "I hope no one I'm ever interested in wants that - it's a deal breaker" would have sufficed.



ShiftedJewel -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 4:41:34 AM)

quote:

This whole thing with Married people cheating.

Plain and simple :

Its WRONG. (duh) Every reason that is said to make it "okay" is just you (general sense) making it okay to yourself. You are rationalizing. Its wrong. Period.

Married slaves can NOT be owned. As you arent going to be their primary focus. They're already "owned" by their spouses. Really its ridiculous


~~Laughs... that's right up there with having to have that warning on the top of a cup of coffee about how the contents could be hot... common sense. It's a shame that it's so hard to come by.

quote:

I guess it seems to me that as long as no one is being harmed (which would require action on the observers part) if you don't like it, ignore it.


But someone IS being harmed, maybe not someone we know or talk to daily, but there is still someone being harmed! Been there, done that, burned the t-shirt and divorced the jerk. Yes, to me asking advice on how to be more successful at cheating is as good as asking to be crucified. My advice is simple, don't. If you are unhappy get a divorce, if you won't do that, then live with it. The choice is yours.

Jewel



onceburned -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 6:39:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: malepleases4ever
why won't you narrowminded cowards castigate the op for her highly judgemental opinions on infidelity, when my posts sensibly suggesting that men should not eat menstral waste were roundly criticized?


In the case of menstrual play, it is the person receiving who takes any possible harm. It is up to them to decide what is right for them.

In the case of infidelity, the harm is given to a person who is *not* a participant. The cheated on person does not give consent, and has no opportunity to avoid harm.

This is the difference between the two - and it is an important one.



stormiKnightBEAR -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 7:12:21 AM)

Riotgirl,

You know this girl is in your corner.... go get 'em.

LOL..... would love to see your take on the whole, "serious relationship/committed relationship,
oh btw, did i mention it's all online?"

Take care girl, and please don't stay away... there are too few who understand.


You're one of a kind... stick around please.


stormi
property of Master Bear



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 7:41:55 AM)

On the married thing, are we talking about just cheating again? Or open honest relationships like mine?

At any rate, I've cheated in the past. I don't think I'm a horrible slimy person doomed forever for it. I wish cheating didn't happen, no it wasn't the right thing to do, but a LOT of people do it and they aren't evil for it, certainly not forever after.



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 8:03:33 AM)

It must be great to know everything there is, and yet be blissfully unaware of one's complete contradiction.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl
This whole thing with Married people cheating.

Plain and simple :


Life is neither...


quote:


Its WRONG.


For you, certainly. For me, perhaps, though it hasn't always been. For others, it is simply not your place to say. If you like, I can lay out a hypothetical situation in which the "wrongness" of cheating might, at the very least, be called into question.

But I am hoping you might engage in a bit of that "open mindedness" I keep hearing bandied about.

quote:


Married slaves can NOT be owned. As you arent going to be their primary focus.


What does primary focus have to do with ownership? You can't make the word "ownership" mean what you like. It has a very specific meaning, and one that has nothing to do with "primary focus." You can argue that married folk can not be owned on other grounds, but this one certainly is not valid.

quote:


They're already "owned" by their spouses.


Show me a definition of marriage in the United States less then 50 years old that includes the concept of ownership. Again, these words don't just mean what you want them to mean.


quote:


If yall want to go off and do something wrong and get advice on how best to do it, i'd suggest going some where were its accepted. Like the cheaters club.


Maybe you should be the one going to some where that really is intolerant of cheaters, like a meeting of an intollerant religious group. I, for one, welcome those who's lives have not been as plain and simple as yours.

quote:


Right is right and wrong is wrong. You can re define that., expecting all to agree and comply.


Do you really think this is a logical statment? Do you actually think your idea of right and wrong is THE idea of right and wrong? That those who do not agree with your idea right and wrong, are wrong???

quote:


Dont tell me, yall aint never been taught right and wrong.


I was taught that hitting girls was wrong. What does this say about consensual flogging? Is it right or wrong? It has to be one or the other, right? Or wrong?


quote:


But wait, doing drugs harms not only you, but others?


Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Cars hurt people...should we eliminate them?

Taggard



nella -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 9:25:32 AM)

RiotGirl, in traditonal muslim contries it is wrong for a woman not to have her sexual parts removed, i guess you agree whit them, sine you obiously find that you have the right to say what is right and wrong for every living soul in this world.



SirKenin -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 9:40:01 AM)

I think the answer is simple. you ask if it's ok if your married master can cheat with you. Well, as nonsensical and crass as that might sound to be, without trying to paint Myself as an expert in interpersonal relationship or something stupid, why not ponder this.

Trade places with His wife for a while and see how you'd feel.

[image]local://upfiles/60308/029F2C434A714ACC8C0A48654C38E5DD.jpg[/image]



Blk4u2 -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 9:46:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176

Ahh, but how many threads do you see where the OP is preaching about the immorality of cheating? It doesn't happen much if ever. The usual pattern is an OP asking how to do it better or make it more gratifying or otherwise seeking some form of tacit approval. My position is don't publicise it if you aren't willing to have it discussed. It's no different than anything else posted for public discussion on the boards, is it?
And for the record, it's my position that the unknowing spouse is always harmed by the cheating spouse. She's being deceived and robbed of the attention and the fidelity that was promised to her. Her marriage is lessened by the cheaters actions.
To say that she isn't harmed because she doesn't know is analagous to saying she's not a crime victim if she doesn't know that her stuff's been stolen/her car's been stripped/her house has been vandalized, etc. The injury is still there, whether she knows it now or finds out tomorrow or next year. I don't jump up on my soapbox and shout it to the world but these are my beliefs and when the subject comes up I will feel just as free to share my POV as the guy whining about how the wife he won't leave doesn't need to know he's screwing around.
I will rest easier knowing that some of the newbies that wander in here may be reassured that some of us do, in fact, have standards of right and wrong in our daily lives than I ever would keeping my mouth shut out of a misguided need to be as inoffensive as possible to people I radically disagree with. I have never told anyone they can't do whatever foolish thing they want to do but I have no compunction at all explaining precisely why I would not take that path.
My personal POV is that cheaters should slink back under their slime-covered rocks and hide their disgraceful cowardice from the light of day. I do not, however, flame them when they choose to post about their adulterous affairs, telling them they have no business masquerading as doms and subs nor do I tell them they have no business talking about their shameful behavior among decent people.
On the contrary, I respect their right to say what they will and do what they will, regardless of how wrong it is. It's only when they choose to open their choices to public discussion that I make my opinion known. Even then I hold myself to a clear standard of civil discourse.
I would reverse your question, if I may. What's the point of coming into the forums if you aren't willing to speak up about your values, your beliefs, your thoughts, comments and opinions? It is a forum for the exchange of ideas and information, why would yours not have as much value as anyone else's?
Timothy



Why does it only pertain to a woman ? I'm just making the obvious arguement. I'm not ashamed to admit i was the "abused" in my past marriage as my ex cheated on me with another woman. I just needed to get that out there that it irks me to no end that it's always assumed that the man is cheating. With engraved conceptions like that, it makes it very difficult for men to have actual equal rights in court.



perverseangelic -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 9:47:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176

Ahh, but how many threads do you see where the OP is preaching about the immorality of cheating? It doesn't happen much if ever. The usual pattern is an OP asking how to do it better or make it more gratifying or otherwise seeking some form of tacit approval. My position is don't publicise it if you aren't willing to have it discussed. It's no different than anything else posted for public discussion on the boards, is it?


Agreed, 100%, however, if seeing a post asking you to condone cheating upsets you so much you need to do more than post in that thread, why not just ignore it?

Sure, there are lots of posts asking people to say "it's ok that you're doing this." If you believe it is morally wrong, say that on the thread, and leave it at that. There don't need to be blanket statements made in the entire forum based on my morality, because it certainly isn't the universal morality.

Point of fact, I -agree- with RiotGirl. And I generally say so on a given thread. What I don't get is allowing it to make you so upset that you -need- to attempt to force everyone into that world view.

The same thing goes for definitions. Ok, as you like, there is "one" definition. Think that, be happy, and -move on- Don't expect everyone -else- to think it because you do.

quote:


And for the record, it's my position that the unknowing spouse is always harmed by the cheating spouse. She's being deceived and robbed of the attention and the fidelity that was promised to her. Her marriage is lessened by the cheaters actions.


I partially agree here as well. I should have been clearer. I think that if someone is in immediate, mortal danger, it is the obligation of every person that becomes aware to -do- something. Potential, future danger? Well, there are -lots- of people in that positon and while I abhore it, I don't believe it is my duty as a good human to fix that. I was trying to say "if someone isn't being killed/mutilated/murdered et al while it sucks, it isn't our duty to remove them from the situation"

quote:


"I would reverse your question, if I may. What's the point of coming into the forums if you aren't willing to speak up about your values, your beliefs, your thoughts, comments and opinions? It is a forum for the exchange of ideas and information, why would yours not have as much value as anyone else's?"


Didn't say you should speak up. Say anything you like -in the appropriate place- which would be on the threads invovling the things you object to. If you notice, I do exactly that. I speak up on the threads, and state my opinions. '

What I -don't- understand are creating whole threads to, basically, bash someone elses ideas.

Anyone who is on this forum frequently knows at least one perso who is in a committed relationship with someone who may or may not be cheating. To create an entire post saying that his/her life is -wrong- is...well...misguided in my view. Tell him/her that in threads that relate and where it is warented.

again, like financial domination. WHY do people feel the need to create entire threads saying it's wrong? Or, write to someone, unsolicited, to tell them they are evil?

I see those situations as one where, well, there is nothing benificial happening from doing so. I believe the same is true here.



darkinshadows -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 10:19:42 AM)

quote:

Trade places with His wife for a while and see how you'd feel.


Ok....

*steps in shoes*

*knows and realises nothing*

*doesn't affect me*

Yet...

I can understand the point you are making. But then, many people react in different ways. Some women(and I use women as example, because that is how you have stated it) do not want to know. Some women, would pack their bags and leave. Some might jump up and down, scream, throw things. Myself? I would look at my relationship, wonder why this man has cheated on me. Why couldn't He communicate with me? What was I doing wrong? What was He doing wrong? Why couldn't He come to me? What am I not doing that meant He went elsewhere? What was he doing that meant He had to go elsewhere? Can I forgive? Who's fault is it? If anyones...

There is black and white, and there are grey areas.

You walk down the street, see a girl who is stunning... has great body, smiles wonderful, personality shines... just for a moment, you think...wow... if only. Don't say you haven't... but I bet you don't consider that 'cheating'... however, to someone else, it is...



ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 10:31:26 AM)

why not just ignore it?


Why ignore it? It's something the op feels strongly about, obviously, why should she ignore it? Why not just speak her mind and give her take on it? Contrary to the belife that "anything goes" and "nothing is right or wrong all in the eye of the beholder" crap, i don't fall into that way of thinking...i believe there IS right and wrong, cheating is never right....do i feel superior enough to sit and condemn those who cheat, no way....no one ever knows what happens behind closed doors therefore, it is definately not upto anyone else other than the people involved to condemn or condone .... however, what get's me is when people try to justify their actions by trying to change the perception of right and wrong....that just doesn't fly.

Happy Monday![:)]



[image]local://upfiles/77460/42342BF703C84FBC81CCBF952957C14C.gif[/image]



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Putting it straight AGAIN (3/14/2005 10:41:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir
Why not just speak her mind and give her take on it?


Ummm...because it makes her look like a closed-minded, inexperienced, illogical simpleton who believes that she knows the real "right and wrong" and anyone who disagrees with her is worthy of scorn?

...because this board could be a place of support and community, instead of a distributer of scartlet letters?

...because there is enough judgment and criticism of what we do from those who don't understand or participate?

I think it is good that she posts as much as she does, actually. It makes her completely harmless, as opposed to those who say one or two harmful things and then vanish for days or weeks. With posts like this, those with even a bit of intelligence will see them for what they are. The damage from the other types is much harder to counter.

Taggard



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