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Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 6:24:56 PM   
DefiantFlower


Posts: 204
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		my first post! Perhaps i will make enough to lose the ever inaccurate Vanilla label...

i have noticed that my Master has become less strict and formal in the way he talks and acts with me. i have expressed on more than one occasion that i need a certain amount of strictness to feel controlled, which i crave. When he becomes lax in his words and actions, i feel like i'm leading the relationship and he's along for the ride. But then he turns around and takes the reins again.

So i'm left feeling like he's not really interested, or isn't taking the relationship seriously. There's no doubt that he takes my submission seriously...i know that for sure. But when he fails time and again to direct a conversation, to take responsibility and control of a situation...it leaves me feeling like he's incompetent. i hate feeling this, he should not have to prove his dominance. And yet, i keep waiting for him to do so....what to do???
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 6:37:32 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline 		You need to renegotiate your dynamic. Define it more so that both of you are happy or rethink the relationship.
 

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(in reply to DefiantFlower)
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RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 6:56:45 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		It seems that you have a few different options

1)redefine and renegotiate like fukintroll recommended.

2) accept that he is the dom and decides how lenient, strict, not strict he will be when he feels like it.

3) If renegotiation does not work and you cannot accept his dominance style, well there is always finding someone that will work hard to dominate you.

I do not know what your needs are or what motivates your submission. I cannot tell you what is right for you. I know that some submissives need micromanagement, and for many of us involved in other types of dynamics that seems a little like a lot of work for the dominant, and the submissive getting a kink met. So it is all about the submissive, and not all about the dominant.

I would say from all I have read, and what I have experienced, a good many submissives do not need someone to "keep them in line". They do what they are told, their dominant does not have to be strict with them often, and life goes on almost like vanilla... I think that the intensity of a power exchange that is 24-7 TPE would have a hard time maintaining itself for years if the submissive needed constant guidance to submit.

It is really unclear if this is your situation, and I am not saying it is, and if it is that does not make you right or wrong. I am just trying to explain that 24-7 is not going to be strict every moment of the day for most couples. It is an underlying energy when I am with my Daddy. There are some people that are very extreme, and if that is what you need, but your dom doesn't... well what you are is a poor fit, it means you will be a lot of "work" that another sub might not be.

Good luck

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to DefiantFlower)
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RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 7:03:21 PM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline 		Are you SURE you believe He should not have to prove His dominance? May i recommend taking a look at what submission means to you dear one. As long as you have an agenda of any kind going on you will remain frustrated. Certainly express your feelings to your Master, but then let them go - leave them in His hands to do with as He chooses. The hardest thing about submitting is submitting - because it means it's not on your terms, in your time or in your way.

_____________________________


She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

(in reply to DefiantFlower)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 7:17:00 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Is it that he has become less strict, or have you internalized the rules by now? See if you had to learn 10 major rules over six months and in those six months made mistakes, he had to check up on you, remind you of them, help you remember them or even punish you for not obeying them you were feeling his direct dominance. But if now you always obey the 10 rules without thinking about it you won't be getting him checking up on you, or reminders you don't need or punishment you don't deserve.

But if you need that level of constant control, then who is in charge? He may not be the micromanaging type, he may have given you all the rules that really matter to him and is happy because you follow them and his life is easier. So if he now has to dream up 10 new rules that he doesn't care about, he isn't going to pay attention to them or ask you how it's going or dish out punishment because it's unimportant to him.

I had to learn to see it from his view. Once I learned what he wanted, he doesn't need to keep on like that. Now for a touch of dominance when I need it, we usually use play. Might be a full fledged scene, might just be him pushing me down and giving me a quick spanking, sometimes he just comes up behind me and bites my neck or hauls me up against his body by wrapping his forearm across my neck and pulls backward. I get the atavistic thrill and feel of being totally in his control that I need and he doesn't have to deal with rules he doesn't care about.

Oh and something that annoys me totally is you assuming that any dom who isn't constantly strict is incompetent. Maybe he's laid back instead, able to see things in perspective.

< Message edited by Celeste43 -- 2/15/2007 7:25:37 PM >

(in reply to slavemaia)
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RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 7:25:34 PM   
DefiantFlower


Posts: 204
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you guys for your suggestions.

i definitely do not want or need to be micromanaged or anything extreme, nor do i want everything to be about ME. And i don't think i would call what we have a 24/7 relationship, which is why it is confusing for there to be no structure most of the time as we don't see each other all the time. So far, i have just accepted that he decides how things happen. i don't really feel like i need to be constantly kept in line, i want nothing more than to do as i am told and trust that he knows what he's doing. But with no structure whatsoever, it is very difficult.

Good points Maia and Celeste. And i didn't mean i think any Dom who isn't constantly strict is incompetent. i just meant that i have absolutely no idea what to think, and was just guessing at possibilities. Not saying that it's either/or.

Communication is obviously the key. But i don't really know how to bring this up with him without being seen as insubordinate or just plain rude.

< Message edited by DefiantFlower -- 2/15/2007 7:35:51 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 7:39:06 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Don't you just hate it when Doms don't do it the exact way you want?

(in reply to DefiantFlower)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 7:41:10 PM   
DefiantFlower


Posts: 204
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		lol...i wouldn't know, he's the first Dom i've ever been with...

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 7:44:58 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DefiantFlower

my first post! Perhaps i will make enough to lose the ever inaccurate Vanilla label...

i have noticed that my Master has become less strict and formal in the way he talks and acts with me. i have expressed on more than one occasion that i need a certain amount of strictness to feel controlled, which i crave. When he becomes lax in his words and actions, i feel like i'm leading the relationship and he's along for the ride. But then he turns around and takes the reins again.

So i'm left feeling like he's not really interested, or isn't taking the relationship seriously. There's no doubt that he takes my submission seriously...i know that for sure. But when he fails time and again to direct a conversation, to take responsibility and control of a situation...it leaves me feeling like he's incompetent. i hate feeling this, he should not have to prove his dominance. And yet, i keep waiting for him to do so....what to do???
 If your relationship is worth saving.... Perspective is key.  Focus on your Dominant and not yourself.  If you find yourself doing something that needs to be corrected, correct yourself.  I never knew self-discipline was going to be such a large part of my submission, but it definitely is.  I thought someone was just going to you know tie me up and impose his will on me?  It happens like that sometimes, but mostly it is a continual process of choosing to follow his direction.  Having to choose on your own to listen every time is not nearly as sexy as I had pictured it in my head, but it is even more rewarding.  When you stop focusing on yourself, you are able to see those rewards more clearly.  Or you could just find someone with a different style of dominance who enjoyed micromanagement.

_____________________________


"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to DefiantFlower)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 7:53:30 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DefiantFlower


i have noticed that my Master has become less strict and formal in the way he talks and acts with me. i have expressed on more than one occasion that i need a certain amount of strictness to feel controlled, which i crave. When he becomes lax in his words and actions, i feel like i'm leading the relationship and he's along for the ride. But then he turns around and takes the reins again.

So i'm left feeling like he's not really interested, or isn't taking the relationship seriously. There's no doubt that he takes my submission seriously...i know that for sure. But when he fails time and again to direct a conversation, to take responsibility and control of a situation...it leaves me feeling like he's incompetent. i hate feeling this, he should not have to prove his dominance. And yet, i keep waiting for him to do so....what to do???


Well, I'm a little confused by your profile. Your OP indicates you have a dominant already, but your profile is pretty specific as to what you are seeking. Anyway, neither here nor there.

Right now, it's about sensuality and playing and 'getting'. I do understand that as it's how I started as well. At your age, it's probably best if it stays about that for a while, too. Later on, when you're tired of the play and the games, think about letting go of some of your expectations and delving into what's inside, internalize the submission you feel and you'll grow. You won't be able to help it. You'll stumble, but at least you'll keep moving down the path. Until you embrace the idea that submission really means that you actually submit to your dominant, you'll just end up frustrated when things don't go your way. One of the keys is finding a partner who complements you and not one you have to mold into what you want. Molds break too easily.

Think about the screenname you choose, think about what you put into your profile. How seriously are 'you' taking the relationship you have with him given that information? Just be honest with yourself, know yourself, decide if you want to stagnant or grow then take the steps necessary to do that. You have tons of time, though.. no worries, no hurries. It's all good.

Welcome to Collarme and the forums.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to DefiantFlower)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 8:11:24 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		lenience does not equal incompetence. my dominant is very lenient most of the time, and while i do crave a more controlled environment normally, i've accepted that that's His way and i've come to understand and be okay with it.

as others have mentioned, you two really need to sit down and decide if he is comfortable adjusting and giving you what you need, or if you're comfortable coming to the understanding that he's your dominant regardless of whether or not he is exactly what you think a dominant should be. otherwise, the relationship is just going to stagnate.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 8:49:23 PM   
DefiantFlower


Posts: 204
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		Well well BitaTruble...just about everything you said hit a nerve. you're right!

But i want everyone to know that i really do NOT think that being lenient or laid back automatically make a Dom incompetent. i should have thought about what i was writing, as the incompetency issue is more situational than a generality. i had thought they were linked, and only now do i realize that the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Thanks, everyone, for all your thoughtful responses! Any suggestions on how this subject should be brought up in conversation?

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 9:00:28 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		In addition to the great words provided already, I'd say that you shift your perspective from one of "He's failing!" to one of "Our methods of communicating have shifted and I am uncomfortable with that."

Take ownership of your feelings.  He needs to own only the behaviors he expressly told you he would provide.  If you go at him with an attitude that he's failing you, then you've already shot yourself in the foot.

This is a communication problem- there's a reason we say it's so important in relationships.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to DefiantFlower)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 9:00:51 PM   
viperess


Posts: 290
Joined: 11/6/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings,

Okay here goes and i am sure before i stop biting my tongue and get this written many will not agree with what i am about to say. First off if you are having problems with the way your Master is doing things then you should go to Him. If you feel He is not listening to what you have to say then write Him a letter explaining how you feel. The reason for me biting my tongue is the part where you said you feel He is along for the ride and it leaves me feeling like he's incompetent, and even the part about Him being lax...one thing that i will admit is a huge pet peeve of mine is hearing a slave put down their Master be He their present one or a past one. i could write pages and pages about Masters i have served but instead just say things did not work out. When i read your post i had to show it to my Master and He could not believe one would state something like that about their Master on a board either. Masters do what they do be it mico manage or be it seeing if we have learned anything at all from what they have tried to teach us. It may very well be the things He is not microing with you now are things He felt you should have learned by now. As i do not know you nor do i know your Master i can not say why He does what He does. If you feel He is not what you need then i would say beg for His release and look else where but do it in a way that would honor Him. Remember in all you do or say it reflects back upon your Master and can bring honor to Him or dishonor to Him depending on your actions.

Respectfully
viperess slave of CTDOM4sub

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 9:03:27 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It's a very hard road for slaves to come to these boards and ask for help.  It's why we have so many who create fake names to post about their problem anonymously.  It's sad really.

I agree- there's a difference between saying "We've got trouble" and "He sucks!" and it's not that hard to keep the difference clear.

Unfortunately there's so much pressure and paranoia to present a picture of perfection, that any sort of flaw is seen as utterly taboo.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to viperess)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/15/2007 9:57:09 PM   
szobras


Posts: 435
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline 		LA has brought a very positive point to what is going on I feel. I believe it is important from the very begining to set a time every once in awhile, depending on your personal relationship, to be able to sit and address any feelings, issues, and such that you both have set in the begining. Perhaps there is a bit of a learning curve to find just the right dynamic that you both are seeking, how you are communicating. Remaining teachable also means remaining aware. In my opinion, nessecary of both Dom and sub.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/16/2007 5:24:53 AM   
needdiscipline23


Posts: 106
Joined: 5/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: viperess

Greetings,

Okay here goes and i am sure before i stop biting my tongue and get this written many will not agree with what i am about to say. First off if you are having problems with the way your Master is doing things then you should go to Him. If you feel He is not listening to what you have to say then write Him a letter explaining how you feel. The reason for me biting my tongue is the part where you said you feel He is along for the ride and it leaves me feeling like he's incompetent, and even the part about Him being lax...one thing that i will admit is a huge pet peeve of mine is hearing a slave put down their Master be He their present one or a past one. i could write pages and pages about Masters i have served but instead just say things did not work out. When i read your post i had to show it to my Master and He could not believe one would state something like that about their Master on a board either. Masters do what they do be it mico manage or be it seeing if we have learned anything at all from what they have tried to teach us. It may very well be the things He is not microing with you now are things He felt you should have learned by now. As i do not know you nor do i know your Master i can not say why He does what He does. If you feel He is not what you need then i would say beg for His release and look else where but do it in a way that would honor Him. Remember in all you do or say it reflects back upon your Master and can bring honor to Him or dishonor to Him depending on your actions.

Respectfully
viperess slave of CTDOM4sub


I agree with you that it's important to respect those who own us, but for those of us who are new, whether owned or not, this is a place to gain other perspectives that, for me, are absolutely necessary to making healthy consensual decision...frankly, I don't think a post just complaining about a Master would even get anywhere on here--it would get about 50 responses saying "grow up", "submit or don't" and the like, which is good...this poster came with a sincere problem that she seems confused and concerned about, and I believe we DO have the right to question and even criticize our Masters, here...

I get that in many relationships, that's completely unacceptable, and if that's the way it is, I fully support everyone doing what makes their kink work for them...

I just don't think a slave should get slammed for questioning her Master here. As a newbie it's so easy to get taken into one person, and never even consider alternate perspectives, and IMHO, that can LEAD to practices that are unsafe.

Plus, look what happened here--the OP learned about herself, that maybe part of the problem lay there, and got great advice about communication with her Master.

Meh, didn't mean to hijack the thread, I just think it's important that we can use this place to gain perspective, knowledge, understanding. :)

(in reply to viperess)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/16/2007 5:48:23 AM   
azzmaster


Posts: 864
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		YOU GOTS 2 KNOW THAT IN LIFE AS WELL AS BDSM THAT MOST FOLKS AINT ALL THEY SAY THEY IS AND THEY JUS FRONTIN. ITS SAD. NO WONDER YOU DISAPPOINTED. WHO WANTS A LAX DOM. I KNOW I DON'T WANT NO BOSSY SUB. 

(in reply to needdiscipline23)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/16/2007 5:52:38 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		I will agree with the advice everything is posting. Talk with him.  Lack of Communication can kill any relationship in any lifestyle.

Perhaps your Master simply becomes laxed for a period of time, to let things get a little out of control, so that he can take hold of everything firmly.  Perhaps not.  A little communication will help you better understand his personality.  Perhaps he gets bored with maintaining high levels of control, releases control a little, then has the rush of regaining control.  Where by his own actions makes the relationship dynamic in a sort of off the wall way.

Do he enjoy it when you are being a SAM (Smart Ass Masochist)?  Perhaps when you need to be a little more SAM with him, when he appears to be not exercising control.  Perhaps Not.  You need to a very in depth conversation, not for finding fault, but to find understanding, and finding direction.

I am just tossing out a few ideas as to why he becomes laxed. Do not mistake these thoughts and ideas as the "truth".   To get to the truth of the matter, you will need to communicate with each other.  If your communication is a one way street, then you need to address the problems in communication.

(in reply to needdiscipline23)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Incompetent vs. Strict Masters... - 2/16/2007 5:59:25 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		Many a master/dom has been bought down out of the clouds by a pretty smile,many after a while perfer I think a much more normal relationship ...Not to say that they don't maintain control but just lossen the collar a notch or two,,IF you aren't getting what you need then you should ask for a lenthy chat with your owner...Of courses just the views of the "ol" master...bounty

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to azzmaster)
Profile   Post #: 20
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