meatcleaver
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
My comments about Eurabia reflect:
1. A declining birth rate of non-muslim Europeans,
2. A high birth rate and fertility rate for muslim Europeans,
3. A high immigration rate of muslims to Europe,
4. A loss of coherency and belief in the formative Christian background of non-muslim Europeans,
5. An increasing militancy and dynamic spread of muslim belief systems in European muslims and non-muslims.
1. There is a declining birthrate in every developed population from what I understand. Japan suffering the most.
2. Imigrants alway have larger families until they settle into the host population. We can talk about those muslims that want an unchanging muslim ghetto in European countries, we could equally talk about westernised muslim women who refuse to kow tow to their parents world view and dress and act western. For every muslim who extols muslim values, you'll get other muslims who embraces the western values. The muslim extremists come from specific tribal groups and can't be said to be illustrative of all muslims.
3. It will get higher if Turkey joins the EU. You have to ask yourself why do they want to be in Europe and the answer is simple, they don't want to live in muslim countries. However, immigration is only into the old imperial countries which leaves a lot of Europe free from muslim immigration. Having done a quick calculation I'm struggling to count more than 12-15 million muslims in Europe, the EU itself having a population of 450,000,000 and then there is none EU Europe on top of that.
Though there are scare articles which is why I'm not surprised at American perceptions. This one http://www.danielpipes.org/article/1796 claims so 20,000,000 muslims in Europe and then says muslims could be the majority in decades.
This Wikipedia article says 5% of Europeans (not all EU) identify with being muslim http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe . If that was evenly spread throughout Europe that would mean there would be 21,000,000 muslims in the EU but alas, muslims aren't evenly spread. The Balkens have significant numbers indigenous European muslims from the times of the Ottoman empire.
According to Wikipedia only 76% of Americans identify themselves as Christian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States
I'm not convinced by christian Europe. Christianity has always been a veneer over a more deep seated pre-christian Europe. Much of what we think of as Christian values has roots in Europe rather than the middle east and Abramic religions and if Christianity can't change those in 2,000 years, Islam isn't going to change it in 20-30 years.
European Democracy comes from the traditions of the northern European Germanic tribes as does equal rights for women. It is no surprise that modern female emancipation started in Europe. Muslim collision with Europeans is more likely to change muslims than Europeans and this is why we are seeing muslim extremists, they see that happening and they don't like it.
4. Europeans are more pagan than Christian or muslim and always will be. Why do you think so many religious groups left Europe for the US. They just couldn't tolerate living amongst people who didn't share their views, not persecution. The irony is they now live in a more diverse culture.
5. Islamic militancy has everything to do with failing Islam than a failing Europe. It is about people fearing losing their culture and wanting to hold onto it at all costs. Most muslims are pragmatic and realise their religion will change and mutate in different environments. Those militants fear losing their power, they don't like it that many of their women folk don't listen to them anymore.
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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.
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RE: Secret Agents on trial in Italy - 
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Yes... I know the difference between dominate and dominant. It was simply a matter of fingers doing one thing while the brain was composing something different, and I didn't pay enough attention to catch it. 
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