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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 8:19:42 AM   
pissdoll


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this is the whole foundation of the Leykis 101 deal....

men will be with the most beautiful women their money can afford; women will be with the richest men their looks can afford.

as annoying and full-of-himself as that guy is, he's really dead on.

the only problem i have with this whole the thing is it doesn't allow for variables.  sure you can use your money or looks to use someone in the short term, but the type of person you will attract is going to be as shallow as you are. 

any type of long-term connection is, as others have already stated, going to cause you to have to look deeper, sacrificing looks or money for other important traits.

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 8:23:03 AM   
Rumtiger


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I stopped listining to Leykis once I moved to Vegas, different radio stations and all that, then when I got Sirius..well, regular radio is just extinct for me.

Hows he doing by the way?

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 9:06:32 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

Maybe it's more prevalent in certain geographical areas. I see lonely beautiful people all the time and likewise I see tons of happily married "ugly" folks.

In my own experience, I used to be considered quite a beauty (look at my pics and subtract about 80lbs.) I even did beauty contests. Interestingly enough, I was almost always single and could rarely get a date.

Now I am no longer a beauty, but I get asked out often and never really have to be alone (though I often choose to decline dates...I'm notoriously picky.)


The people I see together that look the happiest are just average folk. Middle income, average looking people often are satisfied with their lives. I would rather be happy and average than stunning and rich and end up dead at 39.... Anna Nicole did not seem to have a lot of power in my eyes, she could seemingly not control herself... Marlyn Monroe, another beauty that ended up dead young.. Princess Diana, another person that was rich and beautiful and literally hounded to death.

I have found very beautiful people were often the most insecure because their entire lives tend to hinge on it instead of being encouraged to develop other attributes. I have had more than one rich man make a play for me and get shot down. Isn't it true that rich men often know that many women are only into them for the money? How sad that must be to live.

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 9:19:00 AM   
azzmaster


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beauty doesn't lead to corruption. it just allows a person to act out on what's there
u eva hear the sayin ' guns don't kill people, people kill people'? same thing

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 9:35:00 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: azzmaster

beauty doesn't lead to corruption. it just allows a person to act out on what's there
u eva hear the sayin ' guns don't kill people, people kill people'? same thing



I'll take it a step further and say it's not "beauty" that allows this, but an insecure, unstable mind.  I know lots of down-to-earth, wonderful and grounded beautiful people, who do not think they're entitled to all the world has to offer, simply based on looks.

Julia's post makes all the other points I was going to make so I'll leave it at that. :)

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 9:49:53 AM   
puella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

But is it a given that beauty in women, power/wealth in men are necessarily corrupting factors? Does that have to be a given? Certainly women (and men) who are beautiful use that asset to their benefit, as do men who have wealth, fame and power, but is that in and of itself corruption? Or is it using the assets nature has given you, or that you have earned.

I'm not saying these qualities cannot be used to corrupt people, there are plenty of examples of that, just wondering if they must be corrupting by their very nature.



Hello SirDominic,

Thank you for a thoughtful post.. I am still mulling it all over a bit but I wanted to clarify something I think I may have been ambiguous about in my initial post.

I do not think that it is the beauty or power itself which corrupts the person.  I think that beauty/power allows for two things:  A sense of entitlement in the individual which combined with the adulation and relaxed set of standards applied to them by others, nurtures certain less than savory character 'flaws' like narcissism, apathy, selfishness, elitism, etc. (or that which does the corrupting of character). 

I also think that beauty/power is a 'standard' which allows for factors to corrupt the character of those who worship it in others by inspiring that something inside themselves that eagerly allows for the sacrifice of what they would otherwise consider more worthy and genuinely admirable traits in a person on the alter of shallow superficiality and the desire to acquire the shiniest trophy.

< Message edited by puella -- 2/17/2007 9:50:11 AM >

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 9:53:34 AM   
azzmaster


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the pure of heart cannot be corrupted. they may be set on all side by evil but they will walk thru it unscathed. its like the otha poster said, insecurity

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 10:02:31 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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But it's hardly beauty alone which leads to a sense of entitlement- how many times a MONTH on CM alone do we see very average looking men AND women complain about people not treating them as they feel entitled to be treated?

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 10:06:06 AM   
puella


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Of course not, but given the topic of this OP, it is the 'entitlement enabler' I was focusing on.

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 10:10:25 AM   
azzmaster


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i think it more a test of character if u do have looks and money ( like azzmaster) and u still a good ride or die type a person. just like when i was in high school, there were some ugly ass bitches that bragged about bein virgins. hell if anyone had eva looked their way their panties would have been off like a shot. so ucan't say someone is uncorrupt unless they have some means to corruption at their disposal

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 10:15:31 AM   
GuidingLite


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Quote:   "I think that beauty/power allows for two things:  A sense of entitlement in the individual ....." End Quote

Hows about beauty allowing the person to experience and learn to have a feeling and a sense of gratitude versus as you say "entitlement"? 


Quote:  "which combined with the adulation and relaxed set of standards applied to them by others, nurtures certain less than savory character 'flaws' like narcissism, apathy, selfishness, elitism, etc. (or that which does the corrupting of character).  " EndQuote

No not always is this the case.  Sometimes people treat beautiful people harshly just bcoz they are more beautiful and bcoz they just cant handle it.  jealously.   Not always do beautiful people get "adulation and let off with relax standards, in fact sometimes they are Pre judged  bcoz they are more beautiful.



Quote"I also think that beauty/power is a 'standard' which allows for factors to corrupt the character of those who worship it ..." EndQuote

Hows about giving those people more credit?

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 10:34:02 AM   
puella


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I would gladly give them credit, however, that is not the point of my OP. 

Nowhere did I state this was an absolute.  I am merely trying to encourage a discourse about something that is both relevant and quite common.  If you wish to start a topic about another issue, say, How beauty encourages graciousness and modesty, by all means have at it. 

I believe the debate of whether or not the beautiful people have a harder or easier time because of their genetic abundance has been done before,  probably to death.


< Message edited by puella -- 2/17/2007 10:36:21 AM >

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 10:36:06 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Puella- let the thread go where it will, I think we got the point of your thread, we're just unravelling it a bit to see the bigger picture.

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 10:53:30 AM   
GuidingLite


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Dont patronize me with your permission to do anything.  Thanks anyway Ms.

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 10:58:37 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

I do not think that it is the beauty or power itself which corrupts the person.  I think that beauty/power allows for two things:  A sense of entitlement in the individual which combined with the adulation and relaxed set of standards applied to them by others, nurtures certain less than savory character 'flaws' like narcissism, apathy, selfishness, elitism, etc. (or that which does the corrupting of character). 

I also think that beauty/power is a 'standard' which allows for factors to corrupt the character of those who worship it in others by inspiring that something inside themselves that eagerly allows for the sacrifice of what they would otherwise consider more worthy and genuinely admirable traits in a person on the alter of shallow superficiality and the desire to acquire the shiniest trophy.


What age group of people are we generalizing with this? Most people that are shallow enough to be so swayed by someone's beauty or wealth would be spiritually immature in my mind. We are programmed to try to find a mate that can care for us and our offspring if female and the best fertile match if we are male. I do not think that this is automatically a corrupted sort of motivation, but in my experience younger men looking to pee in the gene pool tend to be more hung up on the physical beauty of their mate than men who are older. Men that are older that allow themselves to be corrupted into using money as sexual power are snickered at by most people I know... the label "sugar daddy" and "buying youth" tend to come to mind. Is this corrupt? Hmmmm, I do not know. It is a preprogrammed behavior. I love Woody Allen movies because he really looks this in the face in many of them.

So we have these predisposed behaviors to use beauty to attain resources, or to use our resources to attain beauty, is this the norm worldwide? I mean in other cultures is beauty and wealth cultural capital? Are other cultures as shallow as our own? Is it because they have social mechanisms in place to curb shallowness that they are not as shallow as we are? In many other cultures a woman's beauty is capital of sorts, but not for them...does this make a difference?

I have been doing some thinking about entitlement, and I am changing my views on that word. I think we are all entitled to certain things, but we have to believe we are entitled in order to be so. Perhaps it is not a corruption to know that one is entitled to things? I think that it is only when one thinks they are more entitled than other people that it becomes a corrupted behavior.

Of course someone with wealth and someone with beauty will experience the world differently than someone without these things.

My question if you choose to answer it is this, do you think age changes how people perceive beauty, and is it truly the great equalizer? You know most older men do not throw out their wife because she got a little old, and most women would not leave their mate solely because he lost his financial ass-ets. Do you think that age makes most people less corrupted into valuing shallow things?





_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 11:01:42 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Perhaps it is not a corruption to know that one is entitled to things?

As long as their sense of entitlement is rational- basic health care, shelter, being treated as a human, food.

quote:

My question if you choose to answer it is this, do you think age changes how people perceive beauty, and is it truly the great equalizer?

No, but it sure can help on the whole.

quote:

Do you think that age makes most people less corrupted into valuing shallow things?

I think age forces them to let go of their disillusions and face the long term.  Beauty isn't just one thing- I think age forces people to examine more than the obvious (which IMO younger children know and are taught to forget).

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 11:08:00 AM   
puella


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Hi juliaoceania,

Very good points... I do not know.  By no means is there one standard by which to compare an entire society.

I think in general, people tend to mature emotionally, spiritually and intellectually as we get older.  That maturation I think tends to add wisdom to our choices and decisions and tends to weed out less superficial 'ick', if you will. 

But there is an example to illustrate the opposite of almost any statement... Look at Anna Nicole and her Billionaire hubby... obviously, he was still into acquiring shiny trophies even with great age... as for the other dynamics of their relationship.. well I suppose we will never know (and perhaps that is not such a bad thing). 

I also tend to think that, as we get older, we tend to find the idea of drastic change (like kicking out a life partner for a newer version or ditching your hubby for not keeping up  with the Jones') more frightening in its potential consequences and much less appealing.

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 11:09:59 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

I think age forces them to let go of their disillusions and face the long term.  Beauty isn't just one thing- I think age forces people to examine more than the obvious (which IMO younger children know and are taught to forget).


I think that the way children interact with beauty is telling. They respond to beautiful people differently, but they respond to people they love the most... it does not matter to a two year old how dried up grandma is.

There was an interesting study that found people tend to find those near or in their own cohort the most appealing no matter the age. That is not true of everyone, but it is definitely true for most people... I think that there are many people who would feel so uncomfortable being with Donald Trump that they would pass on it no matter how rich. Being with a rich person means living in a way that is so different than the way the average person lives as to be like living in a different culture.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 11:13:04 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

I also tend to think that, as we get older, we tend to find the idea of drastic change (like kicking out a life partner for a newer version or ditching your hubby for not keeping up  with the Jones') more frightening in its potential consequences and much less appealing.


There is a lot of truth to that! I know more than one couple that stayed together because it would be just too complicated to part.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 3:14:28 PM   
StellaByStarlite


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Hello. =)
 
 
Interesting question. Here's my two cents: I can't really speak for how men feel about the money and power standard, but I do feel that the media and advertising play on insecurities to the point where it's no longer considered a character flaw to be vain or shallow.
 
For example... when I was in high school ( over 15 years ago, ohmygosh ), spending major bucks to maintain a sleek golden tan was, well, over the top. Now it's just normal, at least in my area. Once, young ladies who wore revealing, skimpy clothing were considered tacky. Now, it's just fashion. =)
 
I guess my point is, is that what societies consider "character corruption" changes over the course of time. today.. Vain or shallow might not neccessarily mean weak character. It might simply mean being in with the times. If a woman were to settle for mothing less then a wealthy man, maybe she just has expensive tastes.
 
Regards,
Stella

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