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RE: Character Corruption - 2/17/2007 6:22:28 PM   
catize


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Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

 I also wonder if those very points of desirability in each sex are not the greatest enablers of relaxation of character in the individual, if not that which renders it completely unnecessary and obsolete. 


As a friend of mine often says, “Adversity doesn’t build character, it reveals it.”
I do not believe that a beautiful woman or a moneyed and powerful man is any more susceptible to corruption than others.  Integrity is an equal opportunity trait.  You either have it or don’t, whether life has blessed or cursed you. 


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Character Corruption - 2/18/2007 7:57:54 PM   
DarkDreams123


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Joined: 1/25/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

As a friend of mine often says, “Adversity doesn’t build character, it reveals it.”
I do not believe that a beautiful woman or a moneyed and powerful man is any more susceptible to corruption than others.  Integrity is an equal opportunity trait.  You either have it or don’t, whether life has blessed or cursed you. 



I agree that having beauty or power/money is not corrupting in and of itself. It is not that someone who is in the possession of these traits is more susceptible to corruption, just that they have more opportunity.

This is something that I have learned about myself. In my youth I believed that there were certain things that I would simply never do. However, I was naive, because I had never been put in the position to be tempted toward that vice. Once I was and fell prey to it, I learned that often what we think of as our strength of character is really just a lack of being put in the right circumstances.

The person who possesses virtue is one who has had the opportunity and the means to give in to a vice but has resisted it.

There is no virtue in not having been tested.

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Character Corruption - 2/18/2007 11:02:01 PM   
Paradoxic


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Joined: 10/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

Despite prostations to the contrary, the world turns on power, wealth and beauty. If a guy has a choice between a beautiful woman and one with a beautiful soul, the latter loses out every time. If a woman has a choice between someone who is independently wealthy or a great guy who is not, the latter loses out every time. (Yes, there are exceptions, they are rare). It may not be the best choice; indeed it often is NOT the best choice, but that is what most people are going to go with.


Terrific post, Sir Dom! To add my two cents:

When I worked in corporate America, quite a few times we interviewed women that were, quite frankly, Playmate material. The corporations I worked for never hired them, regardless of how qualified they were. The corporate themes I heard was that 1) hot women are a distraction to the guys, and/or 2) hot women bring unwanted drama to the office, and/or 3) they are a sexual harassement lawsuit waiting to happen. Reminds me of something Raquel Welch was quoted as saying: "Beauty is power, but it's a very specific type of power. It closes as many doors as it opens".

As far as women using their beauty to gain power and money... if you've ever been desperate, as in a college student that is trying to pay tuition and rent, you'll find that the most shy hottie will be smiling and snuggling up to men she'd never even talk to before. But that's preferable to going hungry or being on the street, and if you've never been desperate then you'll never relate to that.

She rationalizes it by telling herself that because men have treated her like she is stupid, she can treat men like they are stupid (this is classic projection). She might even have a Dominant behind her, whether it's an asshole BF or a true Dom!


_____________________________

Dominant, Registered Hypnotherapist, Fun Loving

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 12:27:31 AM   
GeekyGirl


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Joined: 8/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxic
As far as women using their beauty to gain power and money... if you've ever been desperate, as in a college student that is trying to pay tuition and rent, you'll find that the most shy hottie will be smiling and snuggling up to men she'd never even talk to before. But that's preferable to going hungry or being on the street, and if you've never been desperate then you'll never relate to that.


Maybe this is why I never understood the "dating men with money mindset." I was never in that situation. I've had a good paying job since I was 19 and always knew that if all else failed, I had parents who were financially stable and willing to take care of me.

For me, I never needed a man to pay for my stuff, so dating men with money was never an issue. I'd just as soon date a poor man. Doesn't much matter to me!

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 2/19/2007 12:28:03 AM >

(in reply to Paradoxic)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 8:36:29 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxic
As far as women using their beauty to gain power and money... if you've ever been desperate, as in a college student that is trying to pay tuition and rent, you'll find that the most shy hottie will be smiling and snuggling up to men she'd never even talk to before. But that's preferable to going hungry or being on the street, and if you've never been desperate then you'll never relate to that.


Maybe this is why I never understood the "dating men with money mindset." I was never in that situation. I've had a good paying job since I was 19 and always knew that if all else failed, I had parents who were financially stable and willing to take care of me.

For me, I never needed a man to pay for my stuff, so dating men with money was never an issue. I'd just as soon date a poor man. Doesn't much matter to me!


I do not know of many women in that situation. Most "hotties" in college are highly employable. There are student loans, grants and scholarships too.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
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RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 8:49:48 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		This is American political correctness run amok.

By and large women are attracted first to power/money and men are first attracted to physical appearance. It is society’s teachings that this is all that men or women are attracted to when in fact it may be the biggest or just the first too many but does not necessarily mean they will blindly overlook other things and character flaws.

Plus it is society’s over simplification teachings that the physically attractive women and rich men have less character then less attractive women and less rich men which is of course is bull shit. All people have equal opportunity character flaws and good and bad personalities are also not determined by physical looks or money.

Do some people truly not care about power or looks, of course, but it is also something American’s have been taught not to publicly acknowledge their attraction for looks or money so when people say they do not care I know some are telling the truth and some are lying to others or themselves.

People often live as politically correct as their options allow them to.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 9:04:03 AM   
SirDominic


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quote:

puella:
I do not think that it is the beauty or power itself which corrupts the person. I think that beauty/power allows for two things: A sense of entitlement in the individual which combined with the adulation and relaxed set of standards applied to them by others, nurtures certain less than savory character 'flaws' like narcissism, apathy, selfishness, elitism, etc. (or that which does the corrupting of character).

I also think that beauty/power is a 'standard' which allows for factors to corrupt the character of those who worship it in others by inspiring that something inside themselves that eagerly allows for the sacrifice of what they would otherwise consider more worthy and genuinely admirable traits in a person on the alter of shallow superficiality and the desire to acquire the shiniest trophy.


puella, I wanted to expand on your reasoning, which I find to be rather sound. The biggest corrupting factor for the beautiful, rich and famous is that having these qualities (especially the inherited rich, who never had to make the money themselves) are, in many ways, given a free ride in life. They never have to develop the strength of character that the rest of us do; they simply don't need it. They learn to expect that people will treat them special, that they will get what they want automatically. This tends to develop into that entitlement you spoke of. Any of those people who can develop character despite their advantages should be considered very special people indeed.

toservez, I agree that all people have an opportunity for character flaws, depending on their own internal morals and judgement. I would disagree that everyone has equal opportunity. It is much harder to develop these character flaws if you don't live the reality that you automatically deserve whatever you want from life.

DarkDreams123, excellent, thoughtful post.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 1:39:55 PM   
KennelDeSade2


Posts: 210
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		Three weeks.  That's how long looks can carry somebody.  After that, you had better have a backup plan.  The thing is, you don't LOOK at people you know well.  You build a mental image that overlays your perception.  How many "trophy wives" are still married after two years?

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Everything else, is just details.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 1:45:18 PM   
sugarcandy


Posts: 96
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

I think that beauty/power allows for two things:  A sense of entitlement in the individual which combined with the adulation and relaxed set of standards applied to them by others, nurtures certain less than savory character 'flaws' like narcissism, apathy, selfishness, elitism, etc. (or that which does the corrupting of character). 



That is total BULL!

Some ( too many) people treat girls like crap if  the girl gets a high "beauty" rank! Guys think a girl who is considered pretty is spoiled etc ( even if there is NO evidence of such - nice girl), so they think they can be different, "cool" lay back, or think she must have 97 other boyfriends.  Or they fight over her and cancel each other out. messing with her head..  Then--- that same girl is lonely!

Why? because of attitudes like... you wrote puella!   AND YOU are pretty cute yourself!

I don't get it!?

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 1:55:54 PM   
sugarcandy


Posts: 96
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic
The biggest corrupting factor for the beautiful, rich and famous is that having these qualities (especially the inherited rich, who never had to make the money themselves) are, in many ways, given a free ride in life. They never have to develop the strength of character that the rest of us do; they simply don't need it. They learn to expect that people will treat them special, that they will get what they want automatically. This tends to develop into that entitlement you spoke of. Any of those people who can develop character despite their advantages should be considered very special people indeed.

toservez, I agree that all people have an opportunity for character flaws, depending on their own internal morals and judgement. I would disagree that everyone has equal opportunity. It is much harder to develop these character flaws if you don't live the reality that you automatically deserve whatever you want from life.

DarkDreams123, excellent, thoughtful post.

Namaste, Sir Dominic


Yes, SirDominic: The plug ugly certainly DO have as many character flaws as anyone.

The rich, famous.... many of them work like friggin hell to get there!
Beauty isn't all free either, though genetics play a big part.

A lot are really f'ed up, too. Did anyone see Brittany Spears shaving her head? ( pssst i think she looks kind of cute like that)
-- why? isn't she supposed to be sooo conceited, all the world at her feet, that she just yawns? Nooooo. she is spaced!

Being an ass%ole is an equal opportunity characteristic.

Thanks for the balance in your post, though. Plus... you are not hard to look at!

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 2:07:06 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Okay.... let me explain how this works again.

You post an idea of things you may have noticed or wondered about or experienced and then everyone chimes in with thoughts and experiences and ideas of their own.... Hopefully you get something out of the process, be it a new perspective or way of thinking about things...

I have not maintained that the premise of my OP was the ONLY way things worked.  I have said that it is the way things work sometimes and then further went on to speculate why it does happen and what forms of degeneration can take place if it does happen.

I think I have stated, if not here, then in various other topics that there is the exception to every rule (and I have not maintained that this OP is a rule, by any means) and that for every example you give, you can find one that is just the opposite.

I know that what I posted in my OP happens, quite often.  It is that which I was hoping to discuss.

(Oh, and thank's for the compliment.)


(in reply to sugarcandy)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 3:15:01 PM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		sugarcandy, glad you liked my balanced post and my looks, if not my actual post. You are right though, that everyone has flaws. I'm told tis what makes us human. Just don't tell my slave!

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to sugarcandy)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 3:18:46 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxic
She rationalizes it by telling herself that because men have treated her like she is stupid, she can treat men like they are stupid (this is classic projection). She might even have a Dominant behind her, whether it's an asshole BF or a true Dom!

I never rationalized it.  I welcomed it as a complete open trade.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Paradoxic)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 5:54:54 PM   
sugarcandy


Posts: 96
Status: offline 		Hello again :)

Puella, sorry to sound so harsh. I understand you are just bringing up topics to discuss and offer insight and that is appreciated and surely valued by this community!

I  have known a few beauties who are shallow bitches ( men included as bitches), expect everything on a silver platter handed to them and self centered, lazy jerks and I despise this sort, actually.

However,  I do not think that external beauty is correlated to a flawed character. Are most of those who the world would consider "ugly" perfect moral saints? Or are some selfish, mean and ugly inside? 

My respectful disagreement with this as a blanket statement (and you have not made it an absolute, thanks) is the premise that above average looks equal below average moral character. 

Have all those in that catagory had easy lives? I doubt that.

Have they always been beautiful? I hear a lot of models ( too tall, gawky, goofy, braces, thick glasses, clumsy) and stars were ugly ducklings as children, but later grew into themselves.
 In the meantime -- they studied in school, worked hard, volunteered to aid society, developed empathy and strove towards success in an ethical manner.

Inside and outside beauty don't counter act each other. Why should they?
Some pretty people have been raised dirt poor, abused, abandoned... whatever.
Not always do physical externals reflect a cake walk in life.

It sounds like  "player hating" "hating" jealousy.  
and I am not stating this as fact or about you ( you seem especially fair minded) or anyone here.

SirDominic: I liked your whole post. LOL! just cut it down for easy reading, not to repeat) YES! Balance in life! {smiles}

Interesting topic. Thank you. Best of health and happiness to everyone!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 5:56:55 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

I stopped listining to Leykis once I moved to Vegas, different radio stations and all that, then when I got Sirius..well, regular radio is just extinct for me.

Hows he doing by the way?


I have enough trouble dealing with my own opinion.

Odds I will want to listen to somebody elses escape detection by modern scientific methods.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Rumtiger)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 6:41:51 PM   
DarkDreams123


Posts: 74
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sugarcandy

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

I think that beauty/power allows for two things:  A sense of entitlement in the individual which combined with the adulation and relaxed set of standards applied to them by others, nurtures certain less than savory character 'flaws' like narcissism, apathy, selfishness, elitism, etc. (or that which does the corrupting of character). 



That is total BULL!

Some ( too many) people treat girls like crap if  the girl gets a high "beauty" rank! Guys think a girl who is considered pretty is spoiled etc ( even if there is NO evidence of such - nice girl), so they think they can be different, "cool" lay back, or think she must have 97 other boyfriends.  Or they fight over her and cancel each other out. messing with her head..  Then--- that same girl is lonely!

Why? because of attitudes like... you wrote puella!   AND YOU are pretty cute yourself!

I don't get it!?

(emphasis mine)

SurgarCandy,

Did I miss something here? When did Puella make the statement that everyone who is beautiful or has money/power never receives some negative responses to such? That really isn't the point. Please refer to this excerpt of the OP below:

quote:


...
Physical beauty (as defined by the society one was reared and to which one subscribes) in a woman is one of the greatest assets she has to work with, for good or bad.  Many will refute this but... honestly, it is the one given in womanhood that is rewarded almost unilaterally.  For men, it is money, or power... interestingly enough, women will often use their strength (beauty) to try to obtain the 'greatest asset' of the opposite sex (power/money).
...

(again, emphasis mine)

Puella is asserting that the things that are often our greatest strengths can also become the means for the destruction of our character.

Are you saying that beauty in a woman or power/money in a man are not assets? That would be a strange stance to take.

Sir Dominic: Thank you for the compliment. I enjoy reading your posts, too.

-Dark Dreams

(in reply to sugarcandy)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 7:37:54 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I really don't know how women work...But I believe if you looked at all of the Characteristics of "attraction" being a provider is what many women would list as important on their list.....I know that there are no absolutes! 

Everyone of my friends (male) likes to be seen with, date, marry what would be considered an attractive woman. End of story.

We all have an idea about what is obtainable and what is not.  My decision on whether I want to be with or approach a woman is  almost always based upon her external appearance and then I go from there....If there is substance...It might last....Unfortunately people wearing the "I have a beautiful soul" t-shirt went out of style with liesure suits....So we rely initially on the eye and hope that the brain is just as stimulated.

Everyone else is just in denial.....or knows where their limitations lie.




_____________________________



(in reply to DarkDreams123)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 7:44:25 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

I have been pondering something for a while now... wondering if different things corrupt the sexes differently. 

Do you think that there are different things which imbue one sex with power, or power of demanding, which are different in the other sex?

For instance, beauty;

Physical beauty (as defined by the society one was reared and to which one subscribes) in a woman is one of the greatest assets she has to work with, for good or bad.  Many will refute this but... honestly, it is the one given in womanhood that is rewarded almost unilaterally.  For men, it is money, or power... interestingly enough, women will often use their strength (beauty) to try to obtain the 'greatest asset' of the opposite sex (power/money).

It is a strange and paradoxical concept, and makes me wonder what all the bluster and lip-service to a person's character is about?  I would bet that more times than not, character is the secondary (if that) factor in how we configure desirability and, to a negotiable degree, worth.

I also wonder if those very points of desirability in each sex are not the greatest enablers of relaxation of character in the individual, if not that which renders it completely unnecessary and obsolete.

I look forward to others thoughts on this thought.


Personally, I'd be all good with falling in love with a very rich woman, and allowing her to use her sexual charms and favors on me to convince me to spend her money in a loving a flattering way.

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 7:45:50 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KennelDeSade2

Three weeks.  That's how long looks can carry somebody.  After that, you had better have a backup plan.  The thing is, you don't LOOK at people you know well.  You build a mental image that overlays your perception.  How many "trophy wives" are still married after two years?


Silly question.  Trophy wives aren't supposed to last more than 2 years.

(in reply to KennelDeSade2)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Character Corruption - 2/19/2007 8:00:31 PM   
TypeAsub1


Posts: 65
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline 		Interestingly - a recent study which was being discussed on CNN this weekend indicated that goodlooking men were more likely to earn more money than men who were not as good looking in comparable positions.  An older study indicated that taller men were more likely to receive promotions.

The same recent study indicated that white women who were overweight made less money than other women in comparable jobs - but that the weight issue was not a factor for black women.  Odd that one.

How we perceive people is not so easily identified by one or two indicators.  Is a good character enough to create the chemistry I require for a D/s relationship?  Not a chance.  I require a lot more than that.  Is income a factor?  Yes, absolutely!  If a Dom can't pay his bills and support himself, I have issues with him looking to control the life of another person.  It doesn't stop there!  I'm going to consider where he lives, his education, his intellect, his "EQ" (for lack of a better term) and various other things...

Much like the folks who make decisions about hiring staff - we all make judgements every day based on all kinds of input and stimuli.  Some things will be easily identified as attractive or unattractive - other things will be completely unidentifiable.  I recently went on a date with someone, we had a fabulous evening.  In our talks later he said to me:  "you are attractive, professional, I like you, I am interested in your life, nobody has ever kissed me like you do - ever, and yet, something is telling me that you're not the "final" relationship I'm looking for". 

His "gut" wasn't into me.  I met all his criteria in every way... but something chemical wasn't working.  Who knows what it was.  I've had similar experiences.  Someone seemingly perfect in every way just doesn't "click" with me in the way I need them to. 

That said... a person could have all the wealth in the world, combined with great looks and various other superficial things - if he doesn't share my basic core values, he isn't even getting to the first meeting.  Part of my "checklist" includes a pretty extensive discussion of issues surrounding abortion, capital punishment, gay marriage and various other issues which I feel are representative of a persons value systems. 

I don't think that people of good character have relaxed their desire to maintain their good character and to find partners of similar character.  I think that selfish, superficial people exist and have always existed... we just find more of them because we have more access to more people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

I have been pondering something for a while now... wondering if different things corrupt the sexes differently. 

Do you think that there are different things which imbue one sex with power, or power of demanding, which are different in the other sex?

For instance, beauty;

Physical beauty (as defined by the society one was reared and to which one subscribes) in a woman is one of the greatest assets she has to work with, for good or bad.  Many will refute this but... honestly, it is the one given in womanhood that is rewarded almost unilaterally.  For men, it is money, or power... interestingly enough, women will often use their strength (beauty) to try to obtain the 'greatest asset' of the opposite sex (power/money).

It is a strange and paradoxical concept, and makes me wonder what all the bluster and lip-service to a person's character is about?  I would bet that more times than not, character is the secondary (if that) factor in how we configure desirability and, to a negotiable degree, worth.

I also wonder if those very points of desirability in each sex are not the greatest enablers of relaxation of character in the individual, if not that which renders it completely unnecessary and obsolete.

I look forward to others thoughts on this thought.

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 60
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