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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/21/2007 6:42:46 PM   
SlyStone


Posts: 398
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		We were playing, and I did something (face slapping) which freaked out some part of her consciousness and she used her safe word.


I understand what you are saying and anything I post here is my thought and opinion. The idea that it is a general mandate for the bdsm population as a whole is kind of silly and I though that was understood.

I am of the opinion that a submissive has the ability to stop a scene without a safeword assuming that she is with a dom she can trust and  assuming that she is not gagged.

My concern is that having a safe word gives a submissive a false sense of security that may in fact not exist if she is with the wrong person. And again, if that is the case, a safe word will not help her.

< Message edited by SlyStone -- 2/21/2007 6:44:39 PM >

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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/21/2007 6:46:23 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone


I bet you think that WIITWD is deeper than vanilla too, this sort of thinking tends to go hand and hand



Feel free to disagree with any thing I say, I have no problem being called wrong, but  but please do not make silly accusations such as this when you know nothing about what I think or believe.

It shows a lack of thought on your part and and a clear propensity to jump to conclusions and make assumptions in order to support your point which brings into question anything you have to say.



My point is that vanilla people trust, and they have many limits, and use words to protect themselves... why do a sub and a dom using them be thought of as having less trust?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SlyStone)
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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/21/2007 7:04:20 PM   
kate


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/10/2004
Status: offline 		if i have been pushed to the point of having to say a safe word then i'm at a point where i can't speek.....so it would not work for me.....but i would not play with someone who i did not explain that to before hand and tell them how to notice if i was in a lot of distress.....but i have not been pushed to that pont, not that i have  high tolerance....i'm just a newb is all...

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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/21/2007 8:30:32 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		I guess I'll be the first sub to admit that there at least was that little part of me that would not want to use my safeword because of pride and proving myself and hanging on to that last shred of 'I can be strong.'  Now I think that part was wrong and pretty petty.  I've grown out of that line of thinking so much through my current relationship.

The bottom line is I want to submit.  My Dominant has given me a safeword with specific instructions on its use.  If the need ever arises, I will use my safeword in the appropriate manner.  To not use my safeword would be to put myself at risk and to be direclty disobedient.  It is just another way for me to provide him with information that he desires.

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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/21/2007 9:52:20 PM   
bellaballanda


Posts: 62
Joined: 9/1/2006
Status: offline 		For me, I find it easier to call my slow down safe word than my stop safe word.  I'd rather slow things down then get to a point where I've got to stop it.  Up to this point (and I'm still relatively new), I've played with some amazing tops who have been able to read my body language amazingly well.  Everytime I got close to call my slow down word (I just use yellow), they've already stopped backing down...

~Shelly


(in reply to junecleaver)
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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/21/2007 11:46:15 PM   
AriakeRattus


Posts: 4
Joined: 12/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sugarcandy

Just my opinion:
safewords
----  or anything that signals a top that something is wrong, very wrong ---  like your leg is going to break any sec from the chains,  are vital for the well being of those involved.

Though experience and long time pairing, sharing and practice many a dominant is able "read" the situation. Even those very experienced dominants aren't psychic, they could miss something sometime.

"pride" as in being too stubborn to use a signal in an emergency is foolish. "Pride" or being "proud" you have pleased and grown is another story.

To be "proud" to had endured and serve is a sign of a devoted, healthy, thoughtful submissive.



Certainly agree there.

I was given a safeword by Him, for medical reasonings (I have lung and heart problems) though I have never used it. I have never needed to. As to whether it is pride, nay. Part of me wishes to give Him whatever He desires, to take whatever He decides to give. Another part is something within me, that pushes me to push myself. To please Him. To let Him push me over that edge. I trust Him, and He knows my body language (and I know his) quite well. He knows if He is pushing me a bit far, and I trust His judgment on how far He decides to push me, and how much I can take. Not to say, that if for a severe needed reason, I would not use it. I would. I was told that if necessary, I should use it, though only if absolutely necessary. Not do so would be ignoring a direct order. There is also something in me, which hates dissapointment. To see dissapointment in His eyes for even a second is worse than anything imaginable to me. Even though He has told me it is not so, I could not help but feel as though I had failed Him. He knows what I can take - physically and is careful in the ways He pushes me mentally.
I remember quite vividly one time, in which I was being punished for playing with a whipped cream can. I began to have trouble breathing about 20 minutes in, He noticed and immediatly stopped. He took a bit to give me a rest, and as soon as He knew I was fine, I felt the swift rush of air and a hard smack across the rear. Everything was fine, no safeword use needed.
I trust my dominant, and trust that He knows how to handle the situations correctly.
And maybe.. it might just have a twinge of pride - but only in the sense of knowing that I can take what He decides to give, and no matter what, still get up to get Him a drink afterwards.

< Message edited by AriakeRattus -- 2/21/2007 11:49:43 PM >

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, for those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ~ Dr. Suess

(in reply to sugarcandy)
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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 2:10:22 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tasha_tart

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Too prideful to say your safeword?

Why?


Ross 
©º°¨¨°º©


Can't really say I'm too prideful (at least I don't see it that way) to use my safeword, though I've only used it a very few times.
 
The use of the safeword is something that should not be taken lightly. I few with the intent of slowing down...stop can be effective for some

 
The reason for "refusing" to use it, was not pride; rather I think I was challenging myself to go that little bit farther. 
 
The pushing of one is in the responsible hands of the dominant right? The dominant should have the final say of what happenes regardless of previous consent because the dominant could be considered more removed from the endorphines and subspace right?

 
 
I had the advantage that most of my play was with a trusted friend who seemed very attuned to my responses.  That was no mean feat, since I am virtually silent during play. 
 
The observance of body language..the flairing of nostrils..dilation of pupils..arching of eyebrows...pursing of lips..clenching of teeth...coolness of skin..moisture of pelvic area...goosebumps...breath intake can be good starting points in watching subtle changes as the session / handling / play continues.


 
 
She was also very attentive, asking frequently where I was at pain-wise, which I suppose kept us from getting into safeword territory as often as we might have.
 
Constant asking of safeword or reminder of safeword is a good means of indication of how a submissive is doing.

That way it can not be said that they forgot in the the passion of play.

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

 
Tasha
 


(in reply to tasha_tart)
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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 2:16:40 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TypeAsub1

I have never thought of it as pride.  I think of it as disappointing him. 

Why do you think he would be disapointed with your safety in mind?


It's also a competitive thing with me.

So maybe you are harder on yourself than he is?
 
So you would ultimately hold the responsibility?
 
 

I am not a big masochist.  I get off on the submission of taking pain, but have no real desire for pain itself.   However, I do have a competitive streak and if I am with someone who I know enjoys inflicting pain, I will feel as though I've failed if I safeword out of it. 

So you just enjoy session pain for the sake of being competively pleasing?
 
Would you outlast another submissive in taking caning as it were a title to behold?


I'd rather go unconscious from pain than safeword.  I am not advocating this or stating that it is a good thing... it's just the way I am. 


So the mind is greater than the body for you or is it the other way around?
Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

 

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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 2:20:51 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplySubmissive

I always felt that using a safeword was of  a kind of failure on my part, the inability to take what he wanted to give.

I still have to wonder why your safety would need to be an issue regarding pleasure.
 
I enjoy all forms of sessioning yet there would be types that would scare the hell out of you and would not be right for you at this time.
 
So why would your use of a safeword be something that indicated your awareness of your tolerance either emotionally or physically be a disapointment to a responsible dominant?
 

I did know one Dom that thought it was a good idea to try to make me say the safe word in lots of different situations. This caused a lot of emotional turmoil and some really unhappy scenes.. i figured out what he was doing, and asked him about it. he said he was just trying to learn  my limits. jeeze.. we were both pretty new to it all, but this was not fun!!

Sometimes it is better to back off than tolerate something to the poin it may do damage than is not readily reversed.
 
Ross
©º°¨¨°º©
 



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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 2:22:53 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I don't have a safe word.  I express myself with words, cries or gestures and he decides where to go from there.


Ok. So how do you signal when you are gagged,  hooded and bound inmoble.

I have done this yet had a method of communication available.

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 3:20:29 AM   
millisande


Posts: 182
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings to all, be you Master, Dom, Top, switch, bottom, sub, slave, undecided, confused, whatever else is out there....

bina was offered a safeword to use, the two times Master decided to push to explore and expand her pain tolerences and mental triggers, but that was not a pain/physical heatlh issue, but rather, due to an abusive past, a way for her to clearly and quickly communicate that she needed to stop and set straight her frame of mind, should she have flashbacks durring the event, as she occasionally does at other times...

She has never used them. Pride is not the reason why. Trust is. She trusts her Owner to know and understand her needs from normal communication, without "magic words." So far, He has proven her Trust well placed. Which, as she has taken wedding vows with Him, she must suppose is a good thing.... *smiles*

Best wishes to Thee and Thine,
With all respect, and in hopes that this is pleasing to the Free,
bina, of Wolf.


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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 4:07:02 AM   
Squeakers


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

If you need a safe word than you can't trust the dom. If you can't trust the dom than a safe word will not save you.

What the hell!   Sorry but unless You are psychic and can feel exactly what the submissive is feeling chances are at some point a submissive will need a safeword or some signal to stop.   There are all kinds of things that can cause unbareable discomfort non related to what the Dom is doing.   For example, what if her heart is racing or she is having chest pains and NEEDS to stop.   Or what is she has trouble breathing with a gag---that has happened to me and can toss me into a panic attack.    Having a safe word has nothing to do with trusting the Dom.   It's called a safe word to keep a person safe.

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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 7:25:51 AM   
aSlavesLife


Posts: 347
Joined: 12/1/2006
Status: offline 		How exactly does one use a safe word while gagged?

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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 7:32:50 AM   
aSlavesLife


Posts: 347
Joined: 12/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

If you need a safe word than you can't trust the dom. If you can't trust the dom than a safe word will not save you.



Universals like this are rarely true or accurate, and they paint the person that uses them as not being knowledgeable about what they speak of.

You are completely wrong, safewords have nothing to do with trust anymore than saying "You sliced my eye with the tip of your whip" One is just a lot more quick to say than the other, and easily understood.

I am not going to get into an argument yet again over this topic, but until you can get an objective way to measure trust between people I will believe you to be full of hubris in that you cannot back this assertion in any sort of way. I am not so arrogant as to think I can judge how much two other people trust each other because they use a safeword. I bet you think that WIITWD is deeper than vanilla too, this sort of thinking tends to go hand and hand


And you say that I am extremely combative, judgmental, and generalize quite a bit? 

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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 7:36:54 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

How exactly does one use a safe word while gagged?


There are safe signals. although I have never been gagged before and it used to be a limit, we have discussed how we will have a safe signal when we do this.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 7:38:10 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Actually SlyStone is correct in saying that if you need a safeword you cannot trust your dom. Where he fell short is in not finishing the sentence properly.

The way the sentence does make sense is to say "If you need a safeword you cannot trust your dom to read your mind". As it happens this is absolutely correct. I cannot trust him to read my mind. I cannot trust him to know if I am feeling nauseous. I cannot trust him to know that I am going to faint. I cannot trust him to know my emotional and physical reactions until I tell him what's happening.

What I can do is trust him to respond correctly when told what's happening. The safeword comes in when I, for whatever reason, cannot articulate an entire sentence and need out fast. Or since I'm usually gagged, the safe gesture.

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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 7:39:24 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

If you need a safe word than you can't trust the dom. If you can't trust the dom than a safe word will not save you.



Universals like this are rarely true or accurate, and they paint the person that uses them as not being knowledgeable about what they speak of.

You are completely wrong, safewords have nothing to do with trust anymore than saying "You sliced my eye with the tip of your whip" One is just a lot more quick to say than the other, and easily understood.

I am not going to get into an argument yet again over this topic, but until you can get an objective way to measure trust between people I will believe you to be full of hubris in that you cannot back this assertion in any sort of way. I am not so arrogant as to think I can judge how much two other people trust each other because they use a safeword. I bet you think that WIITWD is deeper than vanilla too, this sort of thinking tends to go hand and hand


And you say that I am extremely combative, judgmental, and generalize quite a bit? 


Actually I was pointing out his generalizations about trust, and his judgmentalness about safewords, but I have noticed something on the internet, people often do not read what I write, but what they choose to read... Namaste!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to aSlavesLife)
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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 8:52:45 AM   
aSlavesLife


Posts: 347
Joined: 12/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

If you need a safe word than you can't trust the dom. If you can't trust the dom than a safe word will not save you.



Universals like this are rarely true or accurate, and they paint the person that uses them as not being knowledgeable about what they speak of.

You are completely wrong, safewords have nothing to do with trust anymore than saying "You sliced my eye with the tip of your whip" One is just a lot more quick to say than the other, and easily understood.

I am not going to get into an argument yet again over this topic, but until you can get an objective way to measure trust between people I will believe you to be full of hubris in that you cannot back this assertion in any sort of way. I am not so arrogant as to think I can judge how much two other people trust each other because they use a safeword. I bet you think that WIITWD is deeper than vanilla too, this sort of thinking tends to go hand and hand


And you say that I am extremely combative, judgmental, and generalize quite a bit? 


Actually I was pointing out his generalizations about trust, and his judgmentalness about safewords, but I have noticed something on the internet, people often do not read what I write, but what they choose to read... Namaste!


Yeah, just like some people disregard the central point of a post,  isolate something and quote it out of context, and then attack the reinterprited quote. Funny how some people will do that.

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RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 8:57:56 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Yeah, just like some people disregard the central point of a post,  isolate something and quote it out of context, and then attack the reinterprited quote. Funny how some people will do that.



Completely confused here, is that what you are insinuating I did with this quote?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

If you need a safe word than you can't trust the dom. If you can't trust the dom than a safe word will not save you.


Because I quoted that post in its entirety

or perhaps you were  just making some random observation that had nothing to do with me...





_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to aSlavesLife)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Too prideful to say your safeword? - 2/22/2007 9:01:04 AM   
aSlavesLife


Posts: 347
Joined: 12/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

If you need a safe word than you can't trust the dom. If you can't trust the dom than a safe word will not save you.



Universals like this are rarely true or accurate, and they paint the person that uses them as not being knowledgeable about what they speak of.

You are completely wrong, safewords have nothing to do with trust anymore than saying "You sliced my eye with the tip of your whip" One is just a lot more quick to say than the other, and easily understood.

I am not going to get into an argument yet again over this topic, but until you can get an objective way to measure trust between people I will believe you to be full of hubris in that you cannot back this assertion in any sort of way. I am not so arrogant as to think I can judge how much two other people trust each other because they use a safeword. I bet you think that WIITWD is deeper than vanilla too, this sort of thinking tends to go hand and hand


And you say that I am extremely combative, judgmental, and generalize quite a bit? 


Actually I was pointing out his generalizations about trust, and his judgmentalness about safewords, but I have noticed something on the internet, people often do not read what I write, but what they choose to read... Namaste!


Why it was just an observation that no one should feel guilty about unless it applies to them, just as I am sure yours was.

_____________________________

It takes a village to raise an idiot.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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