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RE: ProDommes... - 2/17/2007 6:50:14 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: atendersoul

I am not asking this question to piss anyone off but I have often wondered this ....
if You are paid for Your services, who really has the control?


If one is providing a service and wants return clientel.. they had BETTER cater to the customer. 

_____________________________

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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to atendersoul)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: ProDommes... - 2/17/2007 7:33:37 PM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		Control has nothing to do with whether you pay for a scene with cash or not

Control is what you willingly give your Mistress. 

As others have pointed out, no amount of money can guarantee that a pro-domme wants to dominate you. 

And even if she does, no amount of money can create a great scene with someone who does not want to submit.  Trying to dominate unwilling men is a complete waste of time. 

You both have to want to play and the client has to willingly  give control to the Mistress.  Only then will there be happy customers and repeat business IMO

A related point is about power.  It takes 2 people to make D/s work but only one to end the relationship.  Therefore the one more likely to end the relationship has the power. 

That's why dommes make clear they do not need your money and can turn you away.  The reality is that economic dependence on any man does strip a woman of her power - but most pro-dommes are not dependent on any particular client..

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 2/17/2007 7:35:02 PM >

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: ProDommes... - 2/17/2007 7:36:33 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ineedotk
I see it as NEITHER of them being in control.  It's simply an equal exchange agreed upon by both.
Or both are in control of getting their needs met if you insist on looking at it that way.   It seems that women are never supposed to expect/want money from a man because she is automatically bad than...  Unless she marries him first, than she can take it all and be a legally sanctioned bitch.
A boy who is in a relationship with me will get his desires met whether he has money for me to take or not...  Getting his kink fed because I choose to feed is doesn't put him in control of the relationship nevertheless.   M

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(in reply to ineedotk)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: ProDommes... - 2/17/2007 8:25:40 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I agree that both sides CONTROL this relationship.  Many Pro Domina's turn down clients, so they can
certainly control if they even want to deal with you and what they are willing to engage in.
If both sides are happy, sounds like a win-win situation.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: ProDommes... - 2/17/2007 8:51:25 PM   
demistress


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Dela-where?
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: atendersoul

I am not asking this question to piss anyone off but I have often wondered this ....
if You are paid for Your services, who really has the control?


If one is providing a service and wants return clientel.. they had BETTER cater to the customer. 


Interesting in theory, but alot of my clients don't want to be catered to, some even resist telling me what their into because it will taint the experience of being completely within MY control. To paraphrase and apply an earlier reference: They are paying the piper, and NOT calling the tune, so as long as the piper enjoys piping......

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www.niteflirt.com/MizzSpice

Wether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: ProDommes... - 2/17/2007 9:00:26 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: demistress

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: atendersoul

I am not asking this question to piss anyone off but I have often wondered this ....
if You are paid for Your services, who really has the control?


If one is providing a service and wants return clientel.. they had BETTER cater to the customer. 


Interesting in theory, but alot of my clients don't want to be catered to, some even resist telling me what their into because it will taint the experience of being completely within MY control. To paraphrase and apply an earlier reference: They are paying the piper, and NOT calling the tune, so as long as the piper enjoys piping......


Demi's back!!! I missed you!!

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to demistress)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: ProDommes... - 2/17/2007 9:04:21 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: atendersoul

I am not asking this question to piss anyone off but I have often wondered this ....
if You are paid for Your services, who really has the control?


Much of BDSM is an illusion, expecially in the BDSM market and industry. In the case of Pro's, I think its a mistake to get too deep about it.

I hung out with some Pro Dommes in Northern Virginia once and watched about three clients come and go. These ladies didn't really care about "who was in control," they just wanted to enjoy themselves, have a good time, and make money. Like any business, good clients were paying clients who were also reliable and easy to deal with.

From what I saw, they essentially wanted the men to get off. One client was a cross dresser into humiliation. Another was into bondage and strap on play. The Pros were assertive and strove to ease the guys into a comfort zone and scene.

At the end, I got a free scene --- which they hoped would maybe turn me into a regular customer, but I never went back. In general, if I were alone, I would probably prefer porn, erotica, or my own straight fantasies to Pro Dommes. Paying for it just feels like prostitution, and I've never been one to pay for sex. I have a little too much Holden Caulfield in me, I suppose.

(in reply to atendersoul)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: ProDommes... - 2/17/2007 9:08:47 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx
The person who has ultimate control is the same person in any setting.  The one that can walk away when they think they're done.


I agree with this sentiment. And so I think it is shared control defined by how much each wants the given interaction, and to the extent each can walk away.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to mstrjx)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: ProDommes... - 2/17/2007 9:43:39 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne



A related point is about power.  It takes 2 people to make D/s work but only one to end the relationship.  Therefore the one more likely to end the relationship has the power. 

That's why dommes make clear they do not need your money and can turn you away.  The reality is that economic dependence on any man does strip a woman of her power - but most pro-dommes are not dependent on any particular client..


Then the client that decides not to pay a PRO thus taking his power and ending the alliance leaving the Dom/me powerless.   I've yet to hear of a Pro stopping a man in the street and ordering him to pay her and submit.  Now if they could do THAT..I doff my chapeau to them :)

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: ProDommes... - 2/17/2007 9:45:31 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		In my opinion, a spunky attitude is best when it does not constantly attack others. I appreciate polite disagreement.




quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
Do you think the parties involved care one way or another whose in "control"?  No.  The pro cares about the MONEY and the sub cares about his "fantasy to life" scene. 

THe ONLY one who is obssessed about "whose" in "CONTROL" is YOU.   ::yawn::

Guess what. The boring "who has real control"  aint an issue for the pro or her client.   So ha fucking ha.


I can imagine subs interested to know that they have enough control at the macro level to know they will be satisfied, as might be for any other professional service sought. And I can imagine subs who would be interested to feel a marked loss of control.

I can imagine professional dommes interested to have enough control to feel comfortable, and to enjoy the experience enough to want to repeat it.

So I don't think the question of control is a non-issue, as you suggest.

quote:

And bythefreakin way subs scening with nonpro have some control there as well.  Does that take anything away from the domme as you seem to say to the pros? 


Sure, the ability to stop a scene or walk away exists in almost all BDSM interactions. I think the ratio of dommes to subs causes the control to shift in favor of the women . All other things equal, in professional dominance, this share of control shifts a bit more towards the subs in comparison to non-professional relationships. I elaborate.

In any relationship, I think the decision to stay or leave is affected by the net satisfaction and, in case of less than desired satisfaction, one's perception about a satisfying alternative. I think a sub is more likely to feel he can find a satisfying alternative when seeking professional domination.

Also, I think the net satisfaction is a sum of sources of satisfaction and sources of dissatisfaction. The payment for domination serves as a source of satisfaction for the domme towards this sum. A level of chemistry or satisfaction which might not be enough to support a personal relationship might be enough when it is off and on and brings a payment. Thus, professional domination might allow enough satisfaction in a relationship that would otherwise not work for the domme where the amount of control is not at her ideal level.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 2/17/2007 9:47:09 PM >

(in reply to GuidingLite)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 6:36:04 AM   
GuidingLite


Posts: 233
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline 		why are you people obsessed with who has the fucking power.  there dont need to be a whose up on who or whose the better and upper hand.  every freakin body thinks in terms of whose better than who.  well who the hell freakin cares.  she gets the money huney and he gets some play.  big freakin deal who can turn down who and walk away.  they dont care.  why is it your concern?  do you walk around going:noiw who has the power here, whose better with teh upper hand?  going to see the dentist you say: I have control over this here situation becoz I can choose not to use his services?  well the dentist can in turn decide not the work on my dynamite sparkling teeth.  so there.  none of us are in the upper hand.  who freakin gives a shit.

< ::Message edited by ME cuz I cant spell::: >

< Message edited by GuidingLite -- 2/18/2007 6:37:40 AM >

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 6:48:54 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Control has nothing to do with whether you pay for a scene with cash or not

Control is what you willingly give your Mistress. 

quote:

As others have pointed out, no amount of money can guarantee that a pro-domme wants to dominate you. 

And even if she does, no amount of money can create a great scene with someone who does not want to submit.  Trying to dominate unwilling men is a complete waste of time. 

You both have to want to play and the client has to willingly  give control to the Mistress.  Only then will there be happy customers and repeat business IMO

A related point is about power.  It takes 2 people to make D/s work but only one to end the relationship.  Therefore the one more likely to end the relationship has the power. 

That's why dommes make clear they do not need your money and can turn you away.  The reality is that economic dependence on any man does strip a woman of her power - but most pro-dommes are not dependent on any particular client..

 
MsC ...well said .. personally I gave up trying to defend the pro dom position on these forums a long time ago... after finding most people who seek to debate the issue page after page here are neither pro doms nor pro dom clients and never wish to be ....figuring it was a pointless exercise to try and educate those who don't wish to be educated.   They have their schemas of what they think happens in a professional setting and largely generalise out of their own ignorance.  Thank you for restoring my faith, that someone out there actually gets it. ..welcome to the boards ...



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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 6:55:26 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Lotus how is the client leaving the pro dom powerless?  

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


Visit My Website


(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 7:00:06 AM   
VeryMercurial


Posts: 620
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		I am tiring of the endless Pro Domina debates, I think I will also begin to ignore them for a while.
I have noticed we get at least one Pro Domina question a week, 9 times out of 10 from a submissive.

(in reply to Jasmyn)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 7:08:08 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Lotus how is the client leaving the pro dom powerless?  


That's not what I implied.  What I said was.. (in summary).. all the client has to do is turn and leave and the Pro has no more power than anyone else to make him stay.  At least that is the way it is here in the states.
 
Aren't just about ready tos tart up the fat sub thread yet? :)

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 7:10:45 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
why are you people obsessed with who has the fucking power.  there dont need to be a whose up on who or whose the better and upper hand. 


I am not obsessed with who has the power. I am however interesed by intellectual discourse. When I see a question that causes me to think about a matter, I often tend to do so and share my thoughts. And when I see a post for which I do not understand the intellectual basis or disagree with the intellectual basis, I say so.

In your case, part of my disagreement is driven by how you attack other people.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to GuidingLite)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 7:14:24 AM   
VeryMercurial


Posts: 620
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		Actually I have never seen a fat submissive thread, maybe we should start one.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 7:18:15 AM   
orfunboi


Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline 		How long before the laughter dies down enough to finish the call?

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 7:25:04 AM   
GuidingLite


Posts: 233
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline 		:rlmao:  a fat submissive thread WOULD be hilarious.

(in reply to orfunboi)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 7:31:09 AM   
GuidingLite


Posts: 233
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline 		MsCfromMelbourne you have no idea how much this makes me happy...no idea at all:


Quote: 

"Control has nothing to do with whether you pay for a scene with cash or not

Control is what you willingly give your Mistress. 

As others have pointed out, no amount of money can guarantee that a pro-domme wants to dominate you. 

And even if she does, no amount of money can create a great scene with someone who does not want to submit.  Trying to dominate unwilling men is a complete waste of time. 

You both have to want to play and the client has to willingly  give control to the Mistress.  Only then will there be happy customers and repeat business IMO

A related point is about power.  It takes 2 people to make D/s work but only one to end the relationship.  Therefore the one more likely to end the relationship has the power. 

That's why dommes make clear they do not need your money and can turn you away.  The reality is that economic dependence on any man does strip a woman of her power - but most pro-dommes are not dependent on any particular client.. " 
End Quote


I forgot to give your props for your post. You make the best freakin point!

(in reply to GuidingLite)
Profile   Post #: 40
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