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RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 7:57:00 AM   
KaramelGoddess


Posts: 404
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline 		::sighs, and agrees with Sea::
 
Agreeing to disagree politely is the way to go.  If you disagree wholeheartedly with the point of the thread, simply ignore it.
 
No matter who gives up "control", the power exchange is the important bit, and how it makes each participant feel.  Some Women have decided to make a career out of the way it makes them feel, and they are good at it.  I have alot of respect for Women like that.  Some men/women are unable to be themselves for "free", and so they pay a Pro.  If both are getting what they want out of it...control is a non-issue.
 
Example:  My ex-boyfriend could not give a good massage.  I pay a professional masseuse to do it instead.  Is that giving up control? Nah.  It's paying for something that feels good.  My masseuse is wonderful.. she is a spiritual healer as well as a therapist and she gets my Chi back into alignment as well.  This in turn creates positive energy for both of us AND she gets paid.  It's a simple exchange...
 
Just My humble opinion...
 
With kind regard,
~Kara

_____________________________

"Never eat more than you can lift." ~ Miss Piggy

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 9:55:42 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite

why are you people obsessed with who has the fucking power.  there dont need to be a whose up on who or whose the better and upper hand.  every freakin body thinks in terms of whose better than who.  well who the hell freakin cares.  she gets the money huney and he gets some play.  big freakin deal who can turn down who and walk away.  they dont care.  why is it your concern?  do you walk around going:noiw who has the power here, whose better with teh upper hand?  going to see the dentist you say: I have control over this here situation becoz I can choose not to use his services?  well the dentist can in turn decide not the work on my dynamite sparkling teeth.  so there.  none of us are in the upper hand.  who freakin gives a shit.

< ::Message edited by ME cuz I cant spell::: >


What about other peoples opinions makes you so angry?  I don't get angry at people who yell at each other on the Jerry Springer show.  If the issue isn't important, why are you wasting the time and effort to respond to it?

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to GuidingLite)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 10:27:14 AM   
VeryMercurial


Posts: 620
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		I always wonder about the people that get angry over the people that express anger.
It appears to be a control issue, if you don't like what certain people write, don't read it.
I don't think you can control what other people want to type on these forums.
There are many popular people and trolls that I ignore, I don't spend my time trying to stop
them from writing.
The only person you can usually control is yourself.

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 10:41:11 AM   
GuidingLite


Posts: 233
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline 		Quote:
"I always wonder about the people that get angry over the people that express anger.
It appears to be a control issue, if you don't like what certain people write, don't read it.
I don't think you can control what other people want to type on these forums.
There are many popular people and trolls that I ignore, I don't spend my time trying to stop
them from writing.
The only person you can usually control is yourself. "
End Quote

You offer wise advice VM!

(in reply to VeryMercurial)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 11:06:23 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi
How long before the laughter dies down enough to finish the call?
I've no idea how this makes sense in response to anything I said...
On the other hand, I think this is one of the better pro threads to date for not becoming about hate of what he/she doesn't understand.    M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to orfunboi)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 11:46:15 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

I always wonder about the people that get angry over the people that express anger.
It appears to be a control issue, if you don't like what certain people write, don't read it.
I don't think you can control what other people want to type on these forums.
There are many popular people and trolls that I ignore, I don't spend my time trying to stop
them from writing.
The only person you can usually control is yourself.


I have not gotten angry over this thread. My responses have been composed.

I had an interesting conversation at a BDSM convention which asked what should we do if see someone doing something thought to be generally inappropriate. The example at hand was a man who was standing by a scene at a play party and masturbating as he watched the scene. One side of the argument was that it might be presumptuous to object to another's behavior. Another side was that if no one objects, the behavior will certainly continue. One point raised in that discussion was that the responsibility to define acceptable behavior in a community does not rest with one person and is a shared responsibility. Objections that are reasonable and conveyed politely will carry more weight than those that are not.

I am put off by unnecessary attacks on others, and when one expects respect but does not grant it in turn. I think it is as reasonable for me to share my thoughts about such behavior, as it is for you to share your thoughts above about behavior you consider unnecessary. I am fairly certain my objection is reasonable. If it is not, it will not matter.

As for controlling other people's actions, I agree that that the only person one can truly control on the forums is oneself. However, I think it is reasonable to object when someone behaves in a manner one considers inappropriate. With a fair objection and with people of reasonable intentions, such a statement can make a difference.

Your point--instead of posting, ignore a behavior of which one disapproves--applies to your post as much as mine. My point--courteously speaking against a behavior one considers inappropriate is reasonable and may even make a difference--also applies to your post as much as mine.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 2/18/2007 12:09:33 PM >

(in reply to VeryMercurial)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 11:57:24 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
You offer wise advice VM!


I am curious if you feel her advice applies only when directed at my post, or do you also consider it wise advice when you read something you do not like.

I cannot know whether you are simply agreeing with her because you agree with the point she makes (which is incongruent with the spirit of your post), or if you are agreeing with her because she is diagreeing with me. If you disagree with what I say, I welcome to hear your reasons. Otherwise, I have shared my views and am content to drop the matter in this thread.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to GuidingLite)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 1:04:08 PM   
GuidingLite


Posts: 233
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline 		Your right, instead of whinning about someone's post and how or what they wrote they should ignore it but they cant let anything they dont like or agree with go becoz they have to be right or validated and they can see only one side of something which is always the side they identify with their own advantage and suffer from the pathology "confirmation syndrome" and will never get that whats true for one person is not necessarily true for another.
 
Any hoo - albeit my last long weekend home this month - so I have to spend the day cleaning...fun stuff, huh. Oh well - it will be worth it the rest of the month!! Back I go.........

(in reply to VeryMercurial)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 1:29:06 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite:
instead of whinning about someone's post and how or what they wrote they should ignore it but they cant let anything they dont like or agree with go


Thank you for the indirect response.

I am amused by the text I have quoted above. I must run for now. Perhaps next time the matter arises, I can pull up a history of your posts to demonstrate how your past posts are in complete contradiction with what you say here.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to GuidingLite)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 2:53:35 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite


Perhaps you think your post in this thread is an isolated incident. It is not. My response and impression is an accummulation of countless such posts you have made.

I have pasted below a post I had begun to type in another thread where you attacked Pixel and then mocked BlkTallFullFig for disgareeing with you to speak in favor of Pixel. Before I completed my post, BlkTallFullFig diffused the matter in a gracious manner, and I let it ago. However, I saved what I had typed because I sensed it would be needed again.

Here is what you said against Pixel in this thread because he said something with which you disagreed:
http://www.collarchat.com/m_793603/mpage_4/key_/tm.htm

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
Don't read any of his mile long posts demistress.  Hes rude to alot of mistresses except his few favorites adn i know everyone can guess which ones thsoe are coz they always come running to defend the "sub".  teehee.   just ignore his babbles and passive aggresive long lectures.  he just likes to hear himself think so he can tell himself and the rest that his really an okay guy.  i think he has a lot of mad feelings inside so dont give his lectures a second thought.


When BlkTallFullFig disagreed with you in that thread and said your claim against Pixel was not fair, this is what you said to her:

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
its fair and so very  true but your to busy with your cheers to notice.  look you dropped your pompom. teehee


Like BlkFallFullFig, I also see your statement as unfair and untrue, and think Pixel has a generally respectful demeanor. You seem to equate disagreement with disrespect, which is an invalid equivalence. If you think he is disrespectful, please provide an example that supports your point. In the absence of that example, your statement is an untrue assertion.

I will even demonstrate how you can support your case.

For example, I think you go off on people when they disagree with you and you respond in a manner that is not respectful. Here is why I think so.

Here is what you said to LadyEllen in the same thread above when she disagreed with you for calling Pixel rude.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
of course you have never known him to be rude coz never did he show that to you but to others he has and he's been rude, sarcastic and lectures condenscendingly and since you and him are alike and cut from the same cloth I knew it was a matter of days before you came running out of the corner to defend your boyfriend.  teehee.


And then you immediately came to post another attack at LadyEllen for disagreeing with you:

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
is someone constipated?  i cant tell.


Here is how you responded to Demistress upon mistakenly thinking she responded to your post to disagree with you in this thread:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_750736/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#758015

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
give me a break.  like you know everything about everything.  <laughs>

!beg slut beg!  Now tell me that aint godd.


Here is how you responded to caitlyn when she disagreed with you in this thread:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_725554/mpage_9/key_/tm.htm#728313

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
WHAT??  Are you kidding?  How the heck do YOU know THAT people I agree with never come across as arrogant????  What arrogance on YOUR part to tell ME how people come across to me.  Im not even going to give you an example becuz your tunnel vision could never perceive any other way but your own.


Here is how you responded to Pixel when he disagreed with you in this thread. While the tone can be misunderstood, I think there is little to be misunderstood about the personal attack by you against his photo.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_747864/mpage_3/key_/tm.htm#758176

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
who the hell said anything about damaging a sub? Who the hell said anything about not DISRESPECTing a sub? WHo said anything about subs not being real people?  What are you threatened by?  Just becuz a sub says  what can I do for you? doesnt mean it has to be anything like the way you describe above.  you think just because a sub wants to please his mistress that she will automattically disrepect him?  damage him? not respect his limits?  why are you even bringing all these negative things up that dont apply to subs and their mistresses? 

calm down.  are you as tense and strained as your avatar photograph?


And the post above enough was not enough so you immediately followed with another post. There is little to be misunderstood about the name calling.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
Puhlez, give me a break  blah blah blah DONT put words in my mouth.  Perhaps NOTHING.  Who said they don't get respect.  your making an assumption about rights or no rights.  and that's your problem.   who said anything about damaging and disrespect?  freakizoid


Here is your response to swtandsparkling in this thread:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_755077/mpage_3/key_/tm.htm#756729

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
No freaking shit.  Your stating the obvious.  Guess what buddy people need more elaborate reasons for human behavior then your Sherlock observation.  Save your crappy "fly by the nite" advice  for someone simple minded.


There are more such posts yet.

Your response to various posters--those who disagreed with you or who otherwise held a position different than yours--make me see the following posts from you as ironic.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_781853/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#782031

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
you should just be quiet and learn to respect ALL people when you first meet them, dominant or not. buddyboy.  let her, if she wants to be formal.  its just her style.  get over it.



http://www.collarchat.com/m_65272/mpage_4/key_/tm.htm#784117

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite
I think it [respect] should be  a right (and a right that can change at any time) and I think initially under normal circumstances one should show common curteously (respect).  I mean why not be a right if it's for a good common cause.


And your posts are in contradiction with what you say in the current thread:

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite:
instead of whinning about someone's post and how or what they wrote they should ignore it but they cant let anything they dont like or agree with go


I hope this post clarifies why I feel as I do about how you treat people.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to GuidingLite)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 3:04:44 PM   
millamber457


Posts: 7
Joined: 2/8/2007
Status: offline 		but as a sub , and not shall we say a player , how can you get anything out of a play for pay relationship? you can't give total control to a pro , even if your a regular , that personal connection can not , and never will be there . isn't submission supposed to be a warm feeling , even though it's cold ?

_____________________________

if it's worth doing , then it's worth doin well

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 3:44:09 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: millamber457

but as a sub , and not shall we say a player , how can you get anything out of a play for pay relationship? you can't give total control to a pro , even if your a regular , that personal connection can not , and never will be there . isn't submission supposed to be a warm feeling , even though it's cold ?


I don't think that everyone is looking to give up "total control" in every bdsm relationship that they have. When I first started out, I was seeing a professional dominant who took more control over me than I ever imagined. It was very real, and certainly felt very real. Eventually, she made me her personal slave, and the professional sessions ended, but it was only after a great deal of time that I was actually in the play for pay category.

There seems to be a lot of knocking against the people who are into professional sessions. I don't see the problem with it. If a customer is getting what he or she desires and there is someone who is getting what she needs from that customer, why are people so condemning of this whole segment of the bdsm population. It's not like it's a tax thing, and part of our taxes are going to pro dommes while we're not getting anything for it.


_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to millamber457)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 3:51:05 PM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		In our scene in melbourne there are submissives who love and adore their Dommes and have done so for years and years. And their Dommes are pro-dommes.  It makes no difference. If anything, they are much happier than the subs drifting from "lifestyle" to lifestyle Mistress.

I am not a pro-domme by the way, but I have played with plenty of them (co-topping) and the last thing I would call our scenes is "cold"!!!  We had a hoot of a time - memories that make me laugh out loud years after the event :)  And our "hapless subs" have never forgotten what happened either :) 

Doesn't it depend on the dynamic between the individuals, not who paid who cash?

There are many so-called "subs" who go along to a dungeon once and the experience is a let down. They might have found the scene "cold" for many reasons, but in my experience most are just disappointed it was not what they expected or they did not really "connect" with the Domme. Paying cash was not the problem,

Then there are people who have never been near a professional dungeon, but think the experience would be cold for them.  They should make clear their opinion has no basis in real life experience.



(in reply to millamber457)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 6:52:04 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: millamber457
but as a sub , and not shall we say a player , how can you get anything out of a play for pay relationship? you can't give total control to a pro , even if your a regular , that personal connection can not , and never will be there . isn't submission supposed to be a warm feeling , even though it's cold ?


Thank you for returning the discussion to its original topic.

Just as BDSM itself can take different faces, I think so can professional domination. Based on the persons involved, it may be warm or cold, and the extent of control handed over may vary. I think professional domination is a great option for many people and I overall have a favorable impression of it.

For me, it is not a black and white matter but how I feel about it is the net result of different considerations. My reservations rest mostly on my wish to engage in BDSM in a social relationship based on mutual interest and attraction.

While professional domination does not have to be cold (you can consider the relationship similar to whatever rapport exists between you and your hairdresser or therapist), one reason a sub might seek professional domination could be to seek a cold relationship. That is, there is a level of masochism and disregard I could enjoy (think OWK) but do not see to fit in the type of relationship I seek. One way and, likely, the safest way to experience that disregard is through an anonymity of sorts (it is not how one person feels about another, but a role against a role without the interpersonal feelings) that professional domination can allow. Currently, any fondness for me felt by a domme brings me security that she cares about my general well being. For a dynamic that has a tone of disregard, I no longer can rely on the fondness as a means to mitigate against what could be abusive behavior. For a dynamic with a flavor of disregard, I think professional domination offers a bit more security since considerations about professional reputation can help mitigate against what could be abuse. Also, the type of relationship I describe here is one that is based on fantasy only and the odds of finding interest in such a relationship at a personal level (where other components of a personal relationship that bring satisfaction in such a relationship are absent) are small.

To me, a deep connection is important more for the depth of the social relationship and intimacy--I could and have enjoyed play with someone I have just met where there is attraction and enough chemistry for whatever play did occur. I can appreciate play without the deep connection. So while professional domination may not provide fully for someone seeking a one-on-one relationship with deeper intimacy (emotional and/or physical), I think it can still provide a gratifying experience for those who are not exclusively seeking such a relationship.

My two cents.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to millamber457)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 7:18:24 PM   
HCWT1


Posts: 161
Joined: 7/7/2005
Status: offline 		Over the years,ivé attended many Pro Domes.The thought of who's got controll has never entered my head.Have allways believed that,that was a given.Ivé never tuned up with a shopping list,believing that i'm there at the Dommes pleasure,and what pleasure i get out of it,is a bonus.
The way i see it,it all comes down to attitude,respect and whether your real or not.I must say that,that goes for both parties,both sub and dom.
So long as theres interaction between two parties,in what ever walk in life,there will be somebody bitching about something.

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: ProDommes... - 2/18/2007 11:18:16 PM   
ineedotk


Posts: 109
Joined: 8/17/2006
Status: offline 		You mention that "both are in control of getting their needs met".  That would be the ONLY control each has - getting their own needs met.  But NEITHER is in control of the other person.  Any one of the two could drop the other at any time.  So you're talking about two different types of control here - control over oneself and control over another person.  Each controls him/herself but not the other person.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: ProDommes... - 2/19/2007 6:38:39 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		I've known controlling submissives, and frankly I don't care if the man I'm with is controlling, as long as his obsession is finding ways to please me.   As long as he's delivering by obeying or doing what I need him to do, I'm satisfied in my control of him...
Soooooo, both people getting their needs met does not exclude one dominating and one submitting in my opinion.

Now onto our new forum member millamber457 who's profile screams "I already have one domina controlling me at all times except middle of day,
quote:

looking to explore , discrete daytime ecounters , maybe find a true playmate
who than says he's not a player, wants a personal warm connection, I guess until he has to attend to domina #1....   
I cannot personally see a compelling reason I would take someone like this on without gaining financially from it.   It's true submission with me is romantically and sexually tied, and for that reason, someone looking for discrete encounters during the day wouldn't work, because I'd be left me feeling cheap and used without sufficient service rewards.
So, your mileage may vary obviously since we're all different and seeking different types of relationship, but for me, his money is what would leave me the warm feeling after he took off.
Welcome to the boards Millamber.   M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to ineedotk)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: ProDommes... - 2/19/2007 7:19:40 AM   
DianeB269


Posts: 1596
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

I've known controlling submissives, and frankly I don't care if the man I'm with is controlling, as long as his obsession is finding ways to please me.   As long as he's delivering by obeying or doing what I need him to do, I'm satisfied in my control of him...
Soooooo, both people getting their needs met does not exclude one dominating and one submitting in my opinion.

Now onto our new forum member millamber457 who's profile screams "I already have one domina controlling me at all times except middle of day,
quote:

looking to explore , discrete daytime ecounters , maybe find a true playmate
who than says he's not a player, wants a personal warm connection, I guess until he has to attend to domina #1....   
I cannot personally see a compelling reason I would take someone like this on without gaining financially from it.   It's true submission with me is romantically and sexually tied, and for that reason, someone looking for discrete encounters during the day wouldn't work, because I'd be left me feeling cheap and used without sufficient service rewards.
So, your mileage may vary obviously since we're all different and seeking different types of relationship, but for me, his money is what would leave me the warm feeling after he took off.
Welcome to the boards Millamber.   M



Millambers profile makes me think he's married.


Diane

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: ProDommes... - 2/19/2007 1:27:31 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

and share my thoughts. And when I see a post for which I do not understand the intellectual basis or disagree with the intellectual basis, I say so.



She's a pistol, ain't she? The funny thing is, MBs are all about giving a shit. That's what we do, we give a shit.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/19/2007 1:28:52 PM >

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: ProDommes... - 2/19/2007 1:43:23 PM   
KaramelGoddess


Posts: 404
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline 		What on earth?????

_____________________________

"Never eat more than you can lift." ~ Miss Piggy

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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