quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Some years ago I took a university level class in victimless crimes (at that time homosexuality was illegal in some states).  In the section on homosexuality it was brought up that animal homosexuality numbered  as a fraction of 1% while male humans came in at about 4% of the general population and female humans came in at about half of that.  These numbers were based on free association and not forced environments which luckydog1 has correctly  pointed out.  It was also pointed out that the only creatures on the planet who consistantly engage in sex for fun and not just for procreation are humans and cetaceans.
thompson

I wonder, sometimes, who sits and does studies on the statistics of insects, lizards, and jellyfish homosexual behavior.  Hell, how do you tell a male from a female jellyfish in the first place??

Stephan

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Vendeval,   

You have never heard things to effect that Gays are on average "smarter, better dressed, more cultured, artistic, ect?" 
As an official "fag hag" who has spent years in the arts;
I can say that most Gay men are better dressed, more cultured
and more artistic than most straight men.  Why do you think
"Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" was such a success?  The show
is so successful that the producers created a British version


Or pro gay statistics claiming higher average education, income,
better at child rearing, ect? 
My life experience is that most GLBTQ folks do have a higher
education and high income, (DINK) Double-Income-No-Kids.
The folks that have children of their own or who are uncles,
aunts, and god-parents do a great job as caregivers to children.

If you averaged everyone who engaged in a homosexuall act in prision or in the "navy"(which is a less apt metaphor now because we do not have a draft, but in the past men would be drafted and ordered to go stay on a ship for months at a time with no women), those numbers would go down significantly. 
 
Homosexual behavior in prision is both by force and by choice.
Homsexual behavior in a volunteer military is still by choice;
the personnel can wait until leave to go out to the bars for
a date, stripper, hooker, etc.
 


We would find that on average homosexualls are HS dropouts, Violent and unable to consider the consequences oftheir actions.  Does that make more sense? 
The GLBTQ people that I know are not HS dropouts, nor violent
nor unable to understand the consequences of their behavior.
They are highly educated, cultured, and socialized, fully
participating in their families, churches and communities
just like heterosexual people.


No one in the millitary has been kicked out for being gay under current policy, they have been for engaging in homosexual acts ( I am not defending the Policy, just stating it.  Hetros get kicked out or punished for breaking the sex rules also.)

See Holmes vrs California National Guard, 1998
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_v._California_National_Guard



December 29, 2006
"Meehan to push for repeal of gay soldier ban"

"Since the ban on gays serving openly was implemented a decade ago, more than 11,000 men and women have been dismissed under "don’t ask, don’t tell," according to the Government Accountability Office. A study conducted last year for the SLDN showed that the U.S. military could attract as many as 41,000 new recruits if gays and lesbians in the military were able to be open about their sexual orientation. "
http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid40713.asp



And the dogs were frustrated because they are not free to go chase down the Bitch.  That is not homosexuality.  Homosexuals do not like each other because there are no women available or they can't get a woman so they become "gay", like the dogs in your example.  If the bitch was available they would go for her, not each other.  Dogs are like prisioners in this example, they are not free to seek a mate as they see fit, if they had a woman they would choose hetrosexuall sex. 
 
I have lived on a ranch and raised countless animals.
Sexual behavior runs the full range from mastubation,
oral, oral-anal, hetero, homo, etc.  The availability of
an opposite sex partner is only one factor in the behavior.
 
As for horney male dogs, they will hump anything that
holds still; the edge of the couch, a pillow, a stuffed toy,
you knee, etc.   Male dogs are notorious for sniffing women's
crotches when the women are on their menstral cycle and
trying to mount the women.  Is this intra-species-non-consensual
sex, or are the dogs just confused?


Homosexuall men are attracted to other men, even when there are women available.

quote:

"The GLBTQ people that I know are not HS dropouts, nor violent nor unable to understand the consequences of their behavior. " 

But most prisioners are.  And if you average them together the stats would drop.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

Actually, an interesting question was once asked on how to tell male from female fish.

The answer is quite interesting actually.  Put a breeding pair of fish into a tank.  Throw some food in the water.  If he comes up first, he's male.  If she does, she's female.

That explain it?

Yours,


benji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

Actually, an interesting question was once asked on how to tell male from female fish.

The answer is quite interesting actually.  Put a breeding pair of fish into a tank.  Throw some food in the water.  If he comes up first, he's male.  If she does, she's female.

That explain it?

Yours,


benji

Male spermatazoa race to find the egg as fast as they can, but are often too tired once they get there to fertilize the egg.  Since this is not always true, the female immune system often attacks and kills a male egg.

Female spermatazoa take their time and have energy to fertilize the egg.

Which explains why we have a reasonable amount of parity between genders.

Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

Actually, an interesting question was once asked on how to tell male from female fish.

The answer is quite interesting actually.  Put a breeding pair of fish into a tank.  Throw some food in the water.  If he comes up first, he's male.  If she does, she's female.

That explain it?

Yours,


benji

Male spermatazoa race to find the egg as fast as they can, but are often too tired once they get there to fertilize the egg.  Since this is not always true, the female immune system often attacks and kills a male egg.

Female spermatazoa take their time and have energy to fertilize the egg.

Which explains why we have a reasonable amount of parity between genders.

Sinergy

W.C. Fields being aware of both of the above theories swore that he would never drink what fish fuck in.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Sinergy;
WC did not drink scotch...he was a gin drinker.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Vendeval, do you just want to argue? 
I am going to disagree with you, yes.


I specifically stated that I was refering to draftees by "Navy Sex" people with out a choice, I agree it does not really apply to a volunteer force.  
Even draftees get leave while on duty.  The areas that military
personnel frequent while on leave over-seas are full of bars
and prostitution.


Again I say that if you average all the prisioners who engage in homosexuall acts while in prision into the mix the "queer eye" thing goes out the window. 

You are going to have a hard time coming by accurate
statistics for homosexual behavior, whether coercive or voluntary,
in prisions; because of the stigma attached to the behavior. 
 
Plus, many men in the top position will argue that they
are not gay because they are not the one in the receiving position.


You are certainly not counting them among your gay friends. 
And your point is ?


People who consent to be a bitch in prision do so mostly out of fear My point was that they ARE NOT homosexualls, but similar to 2 male dogs locked in a yard. 
So perhaps the question is, does sexual behavior determine
sexual orientation?

Engaging in dominance games does not make a dog a homosexuall... not responding to female Phermones, and wanting to actually screw another male dog in the ass, when a female is available does. 
The point I was making about the pillow humping is that
an excited dog will hump literally anything.  Whether the dog
is more turned on by a bitch or another male is not the point.
 
Or a bitch in heat?  Have you ever watched a canine bitch or
a feline queen in heat rubbing all over everything and up
against their owner's leg?  Does that make their behavior
hetero or homo or intra-species or ?


A dog humping a pillow does not make it gay.  It is actually quite insulting to gay people to compare the two, ask some of your gay friends if they consider themselves on par with a dog screwing a pillow.
Where do you get that I am comparing my gay friends to
dogs humping pillows?  Plus I would be comparing myself
to a humping dog because I am Bisexual. 
 
The post about the two dogs was a joke made in reference to the OP.
You are taking it out of context.


"The GLBTQ people that I know are not HS dropouts, nor violent
nor unable to understand the consequences of their behavior. "  But most prisioners are.  And if you average them together the stats would drop.


So you go from saying that most homosexual behavior in
prision is from fear and those men are not really gay,
but then say that GLBTQ people in the rest of the society
should be statistically added together? That does not make
sense.



"Why do you think "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" was such a success?:"  Because the producers do not consider convicts who were rapists or subs while in prision to be homosexualls and include them in the show.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I cannot find Vendeval's post to discuss it, but I wanted to throw out a few comments.

If one reads Susan Brownmiller's book "Men, Women, and Rape," she makes a cogent point that men rape other men in prison.  While this is the case, the men doing the raping do not self identify as homosexual.  The act is not about sex.  It is about violence and control.

Consensual sex in these situations is different.  If I remember the sources I will post them.  I did some studying of this way back when, and my understanding of prison and "navy" sex is that men have certain needs and desires, and are segregated from those who could satisfy those needs according to their sexual orientation.  Accordingly, the individual in question may consent to have sex as either a top or a bottom with a person of the same gender without feeling they are homosexual.  They get out of prison, they date women.  They pull in to port, they consort with female prostitutes.  Somebody calls them a homosexual, they beat the person to death with a beer stein for suggesting they are homosexual.  It never crosses their mind that the 400 acts of butt sex they engaged in with their partners in prison were technically homosexual activities.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I cannot find Vendeval's post to discuss it, but I wanted to throw out a few comments.

If one reads Susan Brownmiller's book "Men, Women, and Rape," she makes a cogent point that men rape other men in prison.  While this is the case, the men doing the raping do not self identify as homosexual.  The act is not about sex.  It is about violence and control.

Consensual sex in these situations is different.  If I remember the sources I will post them.  I did some studying of this way back when, and my understanding of prison and "navy" sex is that men have certain needs and desires, and are segregated from those who could satisfy those needs according to their sexual orientation.  Accordingly, the individual in question may consent to have sex as either a top or a bottom with a person of the same gender without feeling they are homosexual.  They get out of prison, they date women.  They pull in to port, they consort with female prostitutes.  Somebody calls them a homosexual, they beat the person to death with a beer stein for suggesting they are homosexual.  It never crosses their mind that the 400 acts of butt sex they engaged in with their partners in prison were technically homosexual activities.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

Sinergy:
When men are denied, for what ever reason, the company of women it is not uncommon for one or more of the men to temporarily assume the role of women.  It was not uncommon on the frontier in the old west that when cowboys would have dances several would tie a bandana around their arm to signify that they would dance the womans part.  How far past the "you lead I follow" dance went I have no idea.  It just strikes me that if you are in for a penny you are probably in for a pound...no pun intended.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Rachel Ray has a wonderful recipe for penguin...However she recommends when dealing with "gay" penguins it is best to soak the penguin in a brine for 24 hours before cooking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Vendval, also from your link..."
Holmes v. California National Guard 1998 was a United States Supreme Court case, that discusses the "Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell" discrimination Policy toward gay people in the military of the California National Guard, of the United States.
The court held that a state National Guard member could not be discharged for saying publicly that he is gay—but could be excluded from any of the many positions on the guard that require federal recognition."

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

I think it's great that animals are gay, too.

If you consider ying and yang as gay and straight, the more gay animals they find, the fewer gay humans there will be.  Except lesbians.  They grow proportionately to the gay animals.....  (I kinda let that whole thought flow freely, but decided to stop before making the connection between lesbians and anim...FUCK!)

Did I say that out loud?

Yours,


benji