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RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 6:39:13 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

And I still don't care.  That really gets your goat.



I think it is mildly amusing, really, if I have any emotional attachment to it at all.

I really doubt the veracity of your statement that you dont care.

But, if believing that works for you, I say keep it up.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 6:45:00 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Yeah? And? Do you *have* a point?


Yes.

But don't sweat trying to figure it out.


Ok. Because when you started saying that *I* believed Abortion to be a Constitutional Right, I *knew* you weren't with us any longer.

What color is the sky on your planet?


No, the discussion was about your statement that "nothing can be implied" out of the Constitution.  I mentioned privacy and the right to abortion.

Whether or not you believe in them is really immaterial.

The facts are that both of these rights are not stated, but "implied" by the interpretation of the Constitution by the Supreme Court.

You do believe that the Supreme Court has the right to interpret the Constitution, don't you? 

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 6:51:03 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

And I still don't care.  That really gets your goat.


I think it is mildly amusing, really, if I have any emotional attachment to it at all.

I really doubt the veracity of your statement that you dont care.

But, if believing that works for you, I say keep it up.


You are confusing "caring" for "is entertained by".

And, to paraphrase one of your earlier posts:

If you don't have an emotional attachment, why do you keep posting?

Personally, I simply find many of your posts highly amusing.

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 6:51:51 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		More of that, "We have more authority than is explicitly delegated", retarded-thinking.

A right to privacy exists, and doesn't NEED Constitutional approval. It's one of those covered under the 9th. End of story. I guess the Feds just wanted more control. Well, they got it.

As long as we're on the topic. Just in case, here's a manual for abortion.

http://deletetheborder.org/node/704

IF your doctor ever hears about you thinking of doing it yourself, she'll help you out.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 2/21/2007 6:52:35 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 6:51:58 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You do believe that the Supreme Court has the right to interpret the Constitution, don't you? 

FirmKY



True, so perhaps it might be useful if you stop pontificating about implied rights with the Constitution, etc., in
order to convince people that abortion is wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 7:02:52 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		A3S2:

(The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States; between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.)


I don't see "Interpret Constitution" in that section. I see them judging CASES arising from the Constitution, Laws of the US, etc ( which is further limited via... )

"In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed."

Now, where did Congress specify crimes alleged to be committed by Gitmo Detainees outside the US, are supposed to be conducted?

I'd like to make sure my TIVO records them.




_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 7:08:34 PM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You do believe that the Supreme Court has the right to interpret the Constitution, don't you? 


True, so perhaps it might be useful if you stop pontificating about implied rights with the Constitution, etc., in order to convince people that abortion is wrong.




And this is a perfect example of the entertainment I'm talking about!

I'm in the middle of a discussion about the interpretation of the Constitution, and use privacy and abortion as examples of the Supreme Court finding specific rights that are "implied".

Just because I mention the word "abortion", you attack me, saying that I'm trying to derail the conversation (and threw in "Hitler" to boot!), and then try to show me up, making the implicit claim that "privacy" and "abortion" are not Constitutionally related.

When I prove you wrong - with your own source no less - you accuse me of making value judgements about abortion when no such thing has been said.

You are the one doing exactly what you originally claimed I was doing - attempting to derail the conversation!



Damn, sin, you really need to stop letting your emotions cloud your judgement.

Maybe you can go and relax by finishing that book about the terrible synergy between Republicans and the Christian Right? 

FirmKY

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 2/21/2007 7:09:53 PM >

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 7:13:21 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You do believe that the Supreme Court has the right to interpret the Constitution, don't you?


True, so perhaps it might be useful if you stop pontificating about implied rights with the Constitution, etc., in order to convince people that abortion is wrong.




And this is a perfect example of the entertainment I'm talking about!

I'm in the middle of a discussion about the interpretation of the Constitution, and use privacy and abortion as examples of the Supreme Court finding specific rights that are "implied".


And THAT'S the fucking problem.

They aren't "IMPLIED", they're UNENUMERATED. And therefore NOT THE FEDS FUCKING BUSINESS. Which is the point anyone gets if they actually read the 9th and 10th Amendments.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 7:24:28 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

More of that, "We have more authority than is explicitly delegated", retarded-thinking.

A right to privacy exists, and doesn't NEED Constitutional approval. It's one of those covered under the 9th. End of story. I guess the Feds just wanted more control. Well, they got it.


oh, please ... please quote me the part of the US Constitution that explicitly guarantees a "right to privacy" in the 9th Admendment.  Please! 

And yes, there is no explicit Constitutional wording that gives the Supreme Court the right to interpret the Constitution.

That's why there was a smiley after my question about it.  I wanted to see what you were going to say.

So, according to your beliefs, then ... all Constitutional decisions since Marbury v Madison are null and void?

FirmKY

FirmKY

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 7:31:46 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		^yawn^

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 7:41:49 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		For those of our viewers too lazy get out their notebooks...

Marbury v. Madison is the basis for the exercise of judicial review of Federal statutes.

Marshall says Acts of Congress which conflict with the Constitution are not law, consequently the Courts must be obedient to the Constitution.

I don't know about everything being, blanket "Null and Void". I know there's a lot of material to cover. Pretty much, if the Constitution doesn't contain an explicit grant ( as in Marbury v., there is no Explicit Grant for Congress to "Overload" the Article 3 specifications. ) then it's not something out federal tax dollars should be paying for.

There might be some cases where a decision which is jurisdictionally appropriate addresses material which is explicitly defined within the Constitution. I wouldn't say those are "Null and Void".

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 8:14:29 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

More of that, "We have more authority than is explicitly delegated", retarded-thinking.

A right to privacy exists, and doesn't NEED Constitutional approval. It's one of those covered under the 9th. End of story. I guess the Feds just wanted more control. Well, they got it.


oh, please ... please quote me the part of the US Constitution that explicitly guarantees a "right to privacy" in the 9th Admendment.  Please! 

And yes, there is no explicit Constitutional wording that gives the Supreme Court the right to interpret the Constitution.

That's why there was a smiley after my question about it.  I wanted to see what you were going to say.

So, according to your beliefs, then ... all Constitutional decisions since Marbury v Madison are null and void?

FirmKY

FirmKY


I could spend the rest of my life providing you with source materials claiming that Abortion is legal, Monkeyboy needs to be brought up on charges, Night is day, or whatever.

And at the end of the day, you will have refused to consider the idea that perhaps your opinions are incorrect and refuse to back off from your position that the person (who in violation of our Constitution) insists he is MY commander in chief, is the Second Coming of The Savior.

For me, I have wasted time I could spend doing what I do to make the world a better place, and you are the person wasting the time you have been given in this time and place trying to figure out new ways of beating square pegs into round holes.

I am done, FirmKY.  You win.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 9:25:10 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I could spend the rest of my life providing you with source materials claiming that Abortion is legal, Monkeyboy needs to be brought up on charges, Night is day, or whatever.


*shakes head*

Did you even read this thread, or just skim for keywords?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

And at the end of the day, you will have refused to consider the idea that perhaps your opinions are incorrect and refuse to back off from your position that the person (who in violation of our Constitution) insists he is MY commander in chief, is the Second Coming of The Savior.


Nope.  Not even key words.  Were we even talking about Bush? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

For me, I have wasted time I could spend doing what I do to make the world a better place, and you are the person wasting the time you have been given in this time and place trying to figure out new ways of beating square pegs into round holes.

I am done, FirmKY.  You win.


*shrugs*

Ok.

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 9:36:13 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		So farg you are basically saying that the entire Republic has been illegal from day one?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 9:38:24 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

For those of our viewers too lazy get out their notebooks...

Marbury v. Madison is the basis for the exercise of judicial review of Federal statutes.

Marshall says Acts of Congress which conflict with the Constitution are not law, consequently the Courts must be obedient to the Constitution.

I don't know about everything being, blanket "Null and Void". I know there's a lot of material to cover. Pretty much, if the Constitution doesn't contain an explicit grant ( as in Marbury v., there is no Explicit Grant for Congress to "Overload" the Article 3 specifications. ) then it's not something out federal tax dollars should be paying for.

There might be some cases where a decision which is jurisdictionally appropriate addresses material which is explicitly defined within the Constitution. I wouldn't say those are "Null and Void".


FB, believe it or not, I'm actually sympathetic to your point of view.  I'm a strict constructionist, as you seem to be, and I believe that the Federal government has absconded with too many of the rights that they should not have.

I also believe it likely that the income tax was never actually legally passed, and that Federal Senators should still be appointed by their state legislatures.

But ... absent a major revolution, ain't none of that going to change.  I suspect that it will continue to get worse, that more and more power will be taken by the Federal government, and eventually there will be a bloody reaction to it.

Or maybe not.

The world is as it is.   Understanding how it got there is important, and acknowleging reality is the first step in perhaps getting it to change.  Normative idealism is mostly a good thing, but it tends to be hard on Idealists.

FirmKY

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 9:43:25 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		To the Medical Marijuana issue.  I was told by a Chiropractor friend that the reason Cannabis can not be used as a drug is that you can not accuratly control the dose.  The amount of active ingredients varies from herb to herb and even from different parts of the bud.  Doctors like to give perscriptions down to the miligram.  Saying smoke a joint whenever you feel like it is not a perscription, though it absolutly brings relief to people with many different problems.  They have tried many times to make Drugs that mimic Canibal, Marinol ect, but they do not work as well.  Don't agree with the policy, just stating what I had heard, (and it makes a lot of sense as a reason to me).  Personally I think it should just be Legal, drop the whole medical issue entirerly. 

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 9:50:38 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

To the Medical Marijuana issue.  I was told by a Chiropractor friend that the reason Cannabis can not be used as a drug is that you can not accuratly control the dose.  The amount of active ingredients varies from herb to herb and even from different parts of the bud.  Doctors like to give perscriptions down to the miligram.  Saying smoke a joint whenever you feel like it is not a perscription, though it absolutly brings relief to people with many different problems.  They have tried many times to make Drugs that mimic Canibal, Marinol ect, but they do not work as well.  Don't agree with the policy, just stating what I had heard, (and it makes a lot of sense as a reason to me).  Personally I think it should just be Legal, drop the whole medical issue entirerly. 


I suspect that the issues with controlling the dosage go back to drug companies, rather than medical marijuana suppliers.

The problem with Marinol and Canibal stem from a pill-form drug being difficult to swallow and keep down from somebody with chemotherapy induced vomiting. and it takes hours for the drug to work.

The point of this thread is an insistence that Marijuana is non-medicinal.  It is not widely perscribed in this country (the US) because the FDA and drug companies have lobbied for years to keep it on the list of illegal narcotics.

The science behind what it does, and what it cures, etc., is easily available.  But the US wont budge from the idea that it is an illegal drug.  If you are curious, go research endogenous cannibinoids on google.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 9:54:12 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Has anyone ever met someone that ODed off of pot? Tell me how many people have died just from over the counter medication, not to mention prescription drugs.. the argument that one cannot regulate dosage and therefore it is somehow dangerous seems rather silly to me.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 10:01:48 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		I personly think it is an absolutly horrible policy, bordering on criminal.  Though in a general sense I do understand why doctors want to know the amount of medicine (any medicine) the patient is taking.  That being said I agree with Julia (imagine that), Pot is not going to kill a patient if they take too much.  Treating it like a serious drug is stupid.  Legalise it and be done with it, cancer patients could just buy it at the store, and use it with thier doctor's advise.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Iran - 2/21/2007 10:07:18 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

I personly think it is an absolutly horrible policy, bordering on criminal.  Though in a general sense I do understand why doctors want to know the amount of medicine (any medicine) the patient is taking.  That being said I agree with Julia (imagine that), Pot is not going to kill a patient if they take too much.  Treating it like a serious drug is stupid.  Legalise it and be done with it, cancer patients could just buy it at the store, and use it with thier doctor's advise.


Well, the joy of living in California is that my chiropractor's office is next door to a medical marijuana dispensary.

I hope their business thrives.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 120
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