RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area!

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

Stephann -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 5:27:18 AM)
I'm sure I'll be flamed for this, but I think I'm tough enough to handle it. I was 18 when I had sex with my 17 year old girlfriend. I'm sure had this happened today, and her parents found out, I would be on that site. It would have been criminal sexual something with a minor. These tools don't tell the history, and even if they did; how safe are you? You have murderers, drug addicts, rapists, domestic abusers, people who worship a god other than yours, thieves, molesters, and literally the whole litany of the scum of humanity living next door to you. Do you move? And when someone like that moves next door to you again...do you wait? Sit watching him in his back yard, through binoculars? Put surveillance cameras outside your home aimed at him? Why are you waiting? Why not simply put two slugs between his eyes already? People commit crime. They cause untold suffering in the process. If the state is not capable of rehabilitating sex offenders, than why are they released? On the other hand, if sex offenders are released, why must they bear the stigma of a sex offense when far more brutal crimes (murder, attempted murder, assault and armed robbery) are not? What makes sex offenses so much more heinous that they should be addressed in a different manner? Are we really so lacking in cop TV shows and crime drama, and true crime television, that we must now have immediate access to the criminal information of every person in the country? Are you absolutely sure you want those floodgates open, when you're the next 'victim' of this protection? It's of course, all well and good for a society to scream for the blood of a cold hearted rapist. But the same stigma will apply, when it's a shy boy with wealthy parents who gets a shake down from a con-artist. His 'conviction' of rape, because he's too socially inept to defend himself adequately in court, paves the way for million dollar damage lawsuits. His life is no less destroyed than the lives of the daughters and sons we claim to be protecting in our crusade against evil. Let me ask you holy righteous, when you learn you have a sex offender next door, do you tell your eight your old? Tell her to be careful around him? Do you tell her why? When she tells your neighbor's daughter what YOU told her, don't you think you're inviting trouble? Our system of punishment is as archaic and useless as the guillotine, and just about as effective. Our attitude of 'punish, punish publicly, punish often, and punish without mercy' deriving from puritanical values will (and already has) cause(d) far more bloodshed than it will prevent. Making these individuals targets for vigilante justice is a piss poor cop out for a system that should be rehabilitating these men and women. We should be ashamed of ourselves, not just for permitting it, but for screaming for it like spectators at a Roman arena. Stephan

cjenny -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 5:47:13 AM)
While the offenders list can be a great tool it can also be terribly misleading. If a 18 year old boy has sex with a 16 year old girl he could be labeled as a sex offender. Should that kid be labeled as a sex offender? IMO, no freakin way. Labeled foolish maybe, but not a sex offender. ~~~ Thank you very much for posting this website. i just found out that a registered sex offender lives on my street, i'm at 303 and he is at 311. He was convicted of Indecent Liberty with a minor. Not sure just what that is but, it doesn't sound good. It's creepy, knowing he is only a few houses away but, it's better to be aware of the potential threat to our child. i will check it periodically and also share it with others. Again, thank you. ~~~ Case in point, the above offense is just what I described. Having sex with a minor, now the law does not discriminate between a 40 year old man taking advantage of/ nor an 18 year old kid having sex under the bleachers with a 16 year old kid. It is a very slippery slope here people. Do research before you brand a neighbor as a ped**phile.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 5:52:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann ...Making these individuals targets for vigilante justice is a piss poor cop out for a system that should be rehabilitating these men and women... Rex Allen Krebs was "chased out" of the neighborhood in Atascadero where he lived by vigilante residents of the street. Thanks to "Meagan's Law", a neighbor found out he was a serial rapist that had spent 10 years of a twenty year sentence in prison. He ended up renting a small place in a rural area about 50 miles south and proceeded to stalk, brutally rape and murder not one but two college girls in the area, burying them on the property next to his house. He now awaits the completion of his sentence on Death Row in San Quentin. The residents of that street in Atascadero are MIGHTY glad they chased his ass off their block as they protected what was theirs as well as saddened that two more innocent young women had to be raped and this time, die, before he was stopped.

KCwarrior -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 6:20:21 AM)
*A great link, I recently saw it and posted it to our local lifestyle group. I found 19 in my local area of the "burbs" to include some females, one female was there for sodomy .* *As a note, in Missouri urinating in public will get you on the list (like peeing behind a bush at 3 a.m.), with cameras everywhere these days, public sex is almost out of the picture for me.*

mnottertail -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 6:22:02 AM)
Um, can you send me them girls names? I could go for them nasty girls. Ron

Stephann -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 7:38:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann ...Making these individuals targets for vigilante justice is a piss poor cop out for a system that should be rehabilitating these men and women... Rex Allen Krebs was "chased out" of the neighborhood in Atascadero where he lived by vigilante residents of the street. Thanks to "Meagan's Law", a neighbor found out he was a serial rapist that had spent 10 years of a twenty year sentence in prison. He ended up renting a small place in a rural area about 50 miles south and proceeded to stalk, brutally rape and murder not one but two college girls in the area, burying them on the property next to his house. He now awaits the completion of his sentence on Death Row in San Quentin. The residents of that street in Atascadero are MIGHTY glad they chased his ass off their block as they protected what was theirs as well as saddened that two more innocent young women had to be raped and this time, die, before he was stopped. So, the point is we should shun them to the point where it's impossible for them to live a normal life, even if rehabilitated. It's the fundamental problem with capital punishment; if I am going to be executed for killing one person, how does the law protect the public once I have? If I am wanted, or convicted of murder, I now have the 'liberty' to kill as many as I wish; after all, I can only be killed in retribution once. This sad 'eye for an eye' concept threatens the lives of every police officer in such states. What we can never know, is that had he been adequately rehabilitated instead of simply turned loose on the public with a scarlet letter on his chest, would he have still committed these acts? When we are denied the opportunity to normally exist in society, we feel a greater compulsion to hate it; this is exactly the sort of motivation for rape and murder, n'est pas? Perhaps those two college girls would be graduating and going on to successful careers had this law not been passed. Or are they simply more broken eggs in the omelette of public voyurism. Stephan

Mercnbeth -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 7:44:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann ...Making these individuals targets for vigilante justice is a piss poor cop out for a system that should be rehabilitating these men and women... Rex Allen Krebs was "chased out" of the neighborhood in Atascadero where he lived by vigilante residents of the street. Thanks to "Meagan's Law", a neighbor found out he was a serial rapist that had spent 10 years of a twenty year sentence in prison. He ended up renting a small place in a rural area about 50 miles south and proceeded to stalk, brutally rape and murder not one but two college girls in the area, burying them on the property next to his house. He now awaits the completion of his sentence on Death Row in San Quentin. The residents of that street in Atascadero are MIGHTY glad they chased his ass off their block as they protected what was theirs as well as saddened that two more innocent young women had to be raped and this time, die, before he was stopped. So, the point is we should shun them to the point where it's impossible for them to live a normal life, even if rehabilitated. It's the fundamental problem with capital punishment; if I am going to be executed for killing one person, how does the law protect the public once I have? If I am wanted, or convicted of murder, I now have the 'liberty' to kill as many as I wish; after all, I can only be killed in retribution once. This sad 'eye for an eye' concept threatens the lives of every police officer in such states. What we can never know, is that had he been adequately rehabilitated instead of simply turned loose on the public with a scarlet letter on his chest, would he have still committed these acts? When we are denied the opportunity to normally exist in society, we feel a greater compulsion to hate it; this is exactly the sort of motivation for rape and murder, n'est pas? Perhaps those two college girls would be graduating and going on to successful careers had this law not been passed. Or are they simply more broken eggs in the omelette of public voyurism. Stephan and what exactly brings you to the assumption that any serial rapist CAN be rehabilitated? got any experience in that regard? Edited to add: I'd like to add an element to the argument being made by my slave. Could you be "rehabilitated" from your desire to partake in BDSM activities? Well, not knowing you perhaps your could, so I'll re-direct the question to myself. The answer is no. I am confident that is the answer because in trying to live 'vanilla' under a misguided attempt to stay in a marriage; I was a total failure at BDSM "rehabilitation". It was an honest and dedicated attempt. By that same token, do you think it possible for a homosexual to be rehabilitated into exclusive heterosexuality? Is it unfair to compare rape to BDSM or homosexuality? Legally, I don't believe homosexuality is "criminal" any longer in the US in any state, but some states do have sodomy laws that would make homosexual acts "illegal". BDSM activities however can be interpreted as illegal in most every state. I believe there is one State where the law states it is not possible to give legal consent to the most basic and common BDSM activity - spanking. (Nevada?) As we surrender more and more of our liberties to the concept of a "nanny state"; more of these situations will arise. The point isn't the activity meriting the wearing of a "Scarlet Letter". It's a case of personal action and consequences for that action. In this instance whether you are a rapist or urinate publicly you are subject to the 'Scarlet Letter' of a sexual predator. In CA there is a rating system for the "letter". The entry level offender, public urination, meriting the least severe notoriety, a pedophile earning the top 'dishonor'. But this is what the majority of the public desires. Why else would they support all the liberty infringing laws and the people who make them? Lip service to "common sense" is meaningless if you support a government who wants to regulate everything from the ability to spank a child to the use of particular type of light bulb. Action - Consequence This is the law, put in place by your elected politicians. Before pissing outdoors you better make sure you are out of sight of a security camera or you are a "sexual predator" according to the laws on the books because we elected and keep in office politicians who we believe know how we should live our lives better than we do. Before relieving yourself you know before hand if caught in the act a consequence is you will be identified as a sex criminal.

hereyesruponyou -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 10:04:33 AM)
There will always be examples of where laws go wrong in both directions. I can only speak for Maryland, but here 16 is the age limit of sexual consent, and even then the age difference must be 3 years. Example a 18 yr old having sex with a 15 yr old. It's called satutory rape and it doesn't matter how consensual it is. After 16 it would have to be non-consensual to be considered a sex crime. I personally don't want my 16 yr old having sex, she's not ready, while some of her friends are. In my house we are very open about sex in general, especially in relation to her friends etc. I actually researched this law here to answer some questions one of her friends had about a boy she liked who was 18, but since she is only 15 they decided to not even date until her birthday just to make sure he didn't get into trouble. Teens need information to even have a chance at making good decisions. On a separate note, I've had to work with sex offenders, even child sex offenders in my job and it only took once for one of them to comment about a picture of my child for me to creep out enough to never work with them in my office again. I have had the opportunity to talk to some who were "rehabilitated" and my definition of that is the person who acknowledges that it is a bad/destructive behavior, knows they will continue to feel this way, and has been able through medication/therapy combinations to put those feelings aside and lead a somewhat productive life by limiting their exposure to any situation that could lead to problems. Honestly i've only met a few who could do that, and i always wonder how long it will last.....

Stephann -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 10:08:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth and what exactly brings you to the assumption that any serial rapist CAN be rehabilitated? got any experience in that regard? Edited to add: I'd like to add an element to the argument being made by my slave. Could you be "rehabilitated" from your desire to partake in BDSM activities? Well, not knowing you perhaps your could, so I'll re-direct the question to myself. The answer is no. I am confident that is the answer because in trying to live 'vanilla' under a misguided attempt to stay in a marriage; I was a total failure at BDSM "rehabilitation". It was an honest and dedicated attempt. By that same token, do you think it possible for a homosexual to be rehabilitated into exclusive heterosexuality? Is it unfair to compare rape to BDSM or homosexuality? Legally, I don't believe homosexuality is "criminal" any longer in the US in any state, but some states do have sodomy laws that would make homosexual acts "illegal". BDSM activities however can be interpreted as illegal in most every state. I believe there is one State where the law states it is not possible to give legal consent to the most basic and common BDSM activity - spanking. (Nevada?) As we surrender more and more of our liberties to the concept of a "nanny state"; more of these situations will arise. The point isn't the activity meriting the wearing of a "Scarlet Letter". It's a case of personal action and consequences for that action. In this instance whether you are a rapist or urinate publicly you are subject to the 'Scarlet Letter' of a sexual predator. In CA there is a rating system for the "letter". The entry level offender, public urination, meriting the least severe notoriety, a pedophile earning the top 'dishonor'. But this is what the majority of the public desires. Why else would they support all the liberty infringing laws and the people who make them? Lip service to "common sense" is meaningless if you support a government who wants to regulate everything from the ability to spank a child to the use of particular type of light bulb. Action - Consequence This is the law, put in place by your elected politicians. Before pissing outdoors you better make sure you are out of sight of a security camera or you are a "sexual predator" according to the laws on the books because we elected and keep in office politicians who we believe know how we should live our lives better than we do. Before relieving yourself you know before hand if caught in the act a consequence is you will be identified as a sex criminal. To be fair, I'm not questioning the legality of the situation. I'm questioning the wisdom of implementing said laws. The same laws we 'huff' at regarding sodomy, are also on the books; should they remain? Think carefully; if the police do not have enough evidence of rape for an arrest (i.e. only the girl's word) but they have proof he committed sodomy, they have grounds to arrest and hold him to continue their investigation. It's a law that permits more years to be added to criminal sexual offenses, and generally speaking makes the conviction of a rapist stronger. The consequences of certain laws are not always forseen. My issue is not that we are branding criminals; my issue is that we, as a society, assume that by branding men (digitally now, instead of with a branding iron as in olden days) will somehow make us safer. How long before this applies to our credit ratings? I currently live in a country where your credit report can be checked by anyone - no 'social security' number required. This means before you can get a job at McDonalds or as a janitor, your financial standing can be investigated at no fee. This sort of catch-22 can easily prevent people from obtaining jobs (after all, a janitor in debt is more likely to steal is he not?) further worsening their financial situation, right up to the point where everyone of us has some 'red mark' on us. The reality is, I know it will not stop with sex crimes. Serious offenses will gradually be added in; assault, murder, robbery. Then will follow misdemeanors, as incentives, at the request of insurance companies who stand to make a great deal of money by offering 'discounts' in certain areas (read: increase insurance costs for anyone with any sort of criminal record.) There will be a far more vocal minority pushing for more public access to personal information. As to your rehabilitation questions: Let me ask you, if a man sentenced to thirty years behind bars is sexually assaulted every night by men, for those thirty years, do you think he's more or less likely to engage in homosexual activities when he gets out? Yes, I believe everyone can be sufficiently rehabilitated. No, I don't think the steps are simple or politically correct. The measures required to heal broken men are not palatable to the general public, any more than these men are when they are released. So therein lies the crux: what do we do with men (and women) whom we know, for a fact, are threats to society? If we are willing to literally put the directions and crimes in the hands of every citizen's hands, why are we not willing to adopt a more effective prison system? One that focuses less on sexual assault at night, and more on rebuilding these men into useful members of society (or for those individuals incapable of such, ensuring that, for their safety and the safety of others, they are not permitted to intermingle with the rest of society?) Are those years behind bars really in the interests of the common good? Does anyone really feel good about 'eye for an eye' or are we all infatuated with a smug sense of victory over the 'evil' man, wherever he is (be it in jail, selling crack on the street, or learning to build bombs in Afghanistan.) This smug satisfaction isn't of any comfort to families who have lost loved ones to brutality, rape, murder, or terrorism. It's much easier to say the fault is with some unseen criminal, than to understand the tortured souls who commit the acts. Yes, I believe some men are just plain evil. No, they shouldn't exist in our society. No, I don't believe for a second we have so many overcrowded, brutal jails because of these evil men; this is a culture we have brought about upon ourselves. Stephan

Mercnbeth -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 11:00:57 AM)
quote: Yes, I believe everyone can be sufficiently rehabilitated. "Sufficiently rehabilitated"; what does that mean? Sufficient would mean the activity doesn't occur again. How would that be possible to guarantee, not for those effected by the original crime, but for those who would be subject to it if the goal wasn't reached? In other words, who should answer to those effected if a "sufficiently rehabilitated" person commits the same act? If accountability entered into the equation it would be the person or persons who determined the "sufficient" level was reached. However, since your position indicates that personal accountability and consequence isn't proper I doubt you would agree to add an "innocent" person, the person who determined the rehabilitation was complete, to share in the consequences for the action. How about that proposal? I'd agree to setting up a "rehabilitation committee"; however, if the person again commits the act all the persons on the committee get the same consequence. Would you serve on such a committee who would be personally accountable for their evaluation? quote: what do we do with men (and women) whom we know, for a fact, are threats to society? We segregate them. quote: If we are willing to literally put the directions and crimes in the hands of every citizen's hands, why are we not willing to adopt a more effective prison system? What would a "more effective prison system" look like? Are you supporting "brain washing" or "re-education" programs involving physical or chemical tools to effect your goal? It is a very "Orwellian" approach to the problem. quote: Are those years behind bars really in the interests of the common good? On a very pragmatic level yes; because that person for the time incarcerated will not be a threat. Your focus is wrong. The act perpetrated invalidates his/her freedom to be in society. Eliminating him/her from society by definition serves the common good. quote: Does anyone really feel good about 'eye for an eye' or are we all infatuated with a smug sense of victory over the 'evil' man, wherever he is (be it in jail, selling crack on the street, or learning to build bombs in Afghanistan.) Well, the logic of this position is that in every case the death penalty should be applied to every crime therefore all potential of recidivism is eliminated. The reality is there is no "eye for an eye" consequence for some crimes. Can a 10 year olds rape and loss of innocence be satisfied by any length of time that the rapist waste away in prison? Imprisonment is not justice but it is the only recourse available.

MizSuz -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 11:09:15 AM)
Most states have sex offender registries and most of those are available online. They are rarely very current and many states that do have registries have multi-tiered registries in which only the 'most likely to reoffend' are listed on the public database. Some states post pics and addresses (some states even post work addresses) and some states only post cities. Someone used the sex offender registry in Maine to stalk and kill two offenders just last year. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/04/16/national/a182431D23.DTL As has been pointed out here - not everyone who is on these lists would be considered by most of us to be sexual predators or offenders - it's just the way that law read or was interpreted or the way that person happened to get railroaded (and for those of you that think railroading doesn't happen in our judicial system I'd only be able to assume that you have no personal experience with the system). Granted, there are just as many and/or more instances of sexual transgression that I would want to know about if it's in my proximity. I agree with Stephan, our system doesn't really address the problem and it turns the situation into a witch hunt and lynch mob rather than really trying to remedy the problem. However, we don't know of a way to remedy the problem - not really. In the meantime, if I get to choose how to handle that person it would be to keep them incarcerated if they have proven they will reoffend - and if they've killed someone in the process then they should be euthanized. I dont' say this as a punitive thing, I say it as a sad statement of where we are in the rehabilitation game...which is to say we're inadequate. But until we know more about what causes these people to be these people and how we can help them then they have no place in society. The difficulty is in discerning where the line should be (who gets to decide - the folks who make spanking illegal?) and then finding a way to assure that the person is really guilty. Again, I have very little faith in our judicial system. People who shouldn't go free all the time (often because they could afford a good lawyer) and people who shouldn't get convicted all the time (often because they can't afford a good lawyer). Cops and prosecutors so hell bent on makin' that next pay raise that the humans behind their work get lost behind tick marks on the way to the next promotion. Case workers who are over worked and lie about their own actions. With our system so dysfunctional how could we hope to properly convict and/ or treat someone? We can't even be sure our convictions are legit. There is no easy answer.

MasDom -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 11:17:19 AM)
Weird trend in my neighborhood. People always hooking up with girls way to young for them. When I was in Jr high I was asking out girls telling me they were dating guys 20 years old. Looking at this guess they weren't liars after all.

MizSuz -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 11:22:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasDom Weird trend in my neighborhood. People always hooking up with girls way to young for them. When I was in Jr high I was asking out girls telling me they were dating guys 20 years old. Looking at this guess they weren't liars after all. I was seducing grown men (25 to 40) when I was 15. I was good at it and you can bet it was me doing the seducing.

Stephann -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 11:39:19 AM)
"Sufficiently rehabilitated"; what does that mean? Sufficient would mean the activity doesn't occur again. How would that be possible to guarantee, not for those effected by the original crime, but for those who would be subject to it if the goal wasn't reached? It's not possible to make any sort of guarentee. My statement reflects an ideal that we should be working to achieve; the amount of money we spend on the war on drugs, right now, could afford us to put a biometric tracking monitor on every released felon with an audio receiver and GPS to record their every step and action. We have sufficiant technology not only to effectively study behavior modification (which we already practice, to a negative degree) in prison, but to ensure that said modification is effective. In short, we need to stop standing in the streets yelling "RABBLE RABBLE" and start coming up with intelligent, useful solutions. Providing treasure maps for kiddie porn hunters isn't the way to do it. In other words, who should answer to those effected if a "sufficiently rehabilitated" person commits the same act? Who answers for it already? The 'same old methods' simply don't work, as your example (and hundreds others) illustrate. If accountability entered into the equation it would be the person or persons who determined the "sufficient" level was reached. I'm afraid not. We still hold offenders accountable. I don't see any lawsuits against the sex offender registry management being filed, for repeated offenses. Simply put, trying something new does not equate with assuming the guilt of others. However, since your position indicates that personal accountability and consequence isn't proper I doubt you would agree to add an "innocent" person, the person who determined the rehabilitation was complete, to share in the consequences for the action. Nope, you're right I don't agree. A medical professional assesses medical conditions. We already expect medical professionals to make these determinations in court, when deciding if someone is mentally capable of a crime, or standing trial. It's the difference between Sing Sing and Bellveau. How about that proposal? I'd agree to setting up a "rehabilitation committee"; however, if the person again commits the act all the persons on the committee get the same consequence. Again, we already have such committees. Why are you not clamoring for their indictments already? Would you serve on such a committee who would be personally accountable for their evaluation? Would you? quote: what do we do with men (and women) whom we know, for a fact, are threats to society? We segregate them. Megan's Law exists because we do not segragate them, and refuse to accept the financial, moral, and social burden associated with the consequences. quote: If we are willing to literally put the directions and crimes in the hands of every citizen's hands, why are we not willing to adopt a more effective prison system? What would a "more effective prison system" look like? Are you supporting "brain washing" or "re-education" programs involving physical or chemical tools to effect your goal? It is a very "Orwellian" approach to the problem. Compared to tracking devices in hundred dollar bills, ID cards, and publishing crimes on the internet? I've already offered a few suggestions. I'm for intervention programs; one month boot camp style prisons in the desert, for one. Put the money into equipment and personnel the way we do for the military (and draw upon their vast experience in mentoring and psychological re-education.) Ask any Marine who Chesty Puller was, and you'll see how effective it is. Give these 'dregs' of society a sense of purpose, a belief that they have something to lose, and the chance to succeed, and watch our prisons empty. Watch these men earn honest wages and pay taxes. Even if we require a permanent 'halfway house' model, where three time offenders are given the opportunity to do 'basic' labor (chain gang style) but giving them opportunities to exert personal responsibility. I saw a fascinating special on Animal Planet where the most hardened cons were given abused animals to nurture, care for, and re-train. I never thought I would see such a man cry, but example after example of how these men's lives were changed by being given a simple responsibility to care for another being, when all they had ever known their whole lives was how to destroy other living things. I would gladly list another ten ideas if you're interested. quote: Are those years behind bars really in the interests of the common good? On a very pragmatic level yes; because that person for the time incarcerated will not be a threat. Your focus is wrong. The act perpetrated invalidates his/her freedom to be in society. Eliminating him/her from society by definition serves the common good. Again, this isn't support for alienating them from society, it's support for never releasing them. My focus isn't in punishing; we dump enough billions of tax dollars a year into that sort of punishment. My focus is in preventing the need to punish, as much as possible. From a pragmatic perspective, we do everyone a favor by teaching these men a better way, instead of throwing them in hell holes where they go in with an AA in molestation, and come out with Post Grads in sodomy, mutilation, torture, and hate. quote: Does anyone really feel good about 'eye for an eye' or are we all infatuated with a smug sense of victory over the 'evil' man, wherever he is (be it in jail, selling crack on the street, or learning to build bombs in Afghanistan.) Well, the logic of this position is that in every case the death penalty should be applied to every crime therefore all potential of recidivism is eliminated. The reality is there is no "eye for an eye" consequence for some crimes. Can a 10 year olds rape and loss of innocence be satisfied by any length of time that the rapist waste away in prison? Imprisonment is not justice but it is the only recourse available. Again, your focus isn't on fixing the problem, it's on making the guilty 'pay for their crime.' It's a natural influence; right up until the one who is guilty is your son, daughter, or best friend. Retribution is not justice, and will not heal society. The irony, is that the measures necessary to heal society aren't viscious enough for victim's rights advocates, and too dangerous for criminal rights advocates. Again, the end note is founded in how much hate can we spread around. My next door neighbor's dog bit a friend of mine. I can hate the dog and demand it's destruction to give myself and my friend a smug, dirty satisfaction that 'the fucker got what it deserved.' Far more difficult, is to come up with solutions with my neighbor on ways to ensure that their family dog can be kept from hurting others on the street, and to feel sorry for the animal that is in pain. Stephan

Mercnbeth -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 12:01:44 PM)
quote: How about that proposal? I'd agree to setting up a "rehabilitation committee"; however, if the person again commits the act all the persons on the committee get the same consequence. Again, we already have such committees. Why are you not clamoring for their indictments already? Personally, I am. I think those who parole people who go out and commit the same crime should be held accountable. But I happen to believe in accountability and don't focus or care about "good intentions". If you ever have co-signed on a loan you know that even though you didn't derive any personal benefit from the loan you are 100% accountable. Why shouldn't the same be true with something so serious as a person's life? quote: Would you serve on such a committee who would be personally accountable for their evaluation? Would you? No, and why would I? I don't support or believe in the process. If you do you should be willing to stand behind your position and be willing to accept the consequence. If not your position is purely rhetoric. quote: It's a natural influence; right up until the one who is guilty is your son, daughter, or best friend. Please don't provide your rationalization on me. If I've instilled anything in my kids it is the idea that there are consequences for actions. If they only learned that one lesson it was that they must incur the consequences. That goes for me too. Because the reality is, I have pissed outdoors, I have driven a car when, if pulled over, I would have been DUI. The fact that I wasn't arrested and was not pulled over is a matter of chance. Nowadays, I avoid the risk. But when I did those things I knew full well the potential consequence and chose to run the risk. Just like I know today I will drive faster than the posted speed limit on the way home. If caught, or my kids are caught, I will support them, but I will not condemn law or the consequence. I refuse to rationalize and try to avoid it at all cost.

Stephann -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 12:23:19 PM)
We will probably have to agree to disagree. Please accept my comments in the spirit of debate, they do not reflect on my feelings towards you, personally. Personally, I am. I think those who parole people who go out and commit the same crime should be held accountable. But I happen to believe in accountability and don't focus or care about "good intentions". If you ever have co-signed on a loan you know that even though you didn't derive any personal benefit from the loan you are 100% accountable. Why shouldn't the same be true with something so serious as a person's life? Under such terms, where is the motivation for a parole board to let anyone out 'early?' What percentage of our GDP are we willing to spend on prison, considering we already have the highest percentage in the modern world? We need to face the facts, that we don't let prisoners out early for the 'benefit' of the prisoner or society. We let them out early because, frankly, we put more people in jail than any other country in the western world, and we simply can't afford to keep them all locked up. I noticed you're not interested in any of the solutions I offered to improve the system. The only suggestion you've offered was to hold more people accountable; essentially, throw more people in jail. How many of us need to end up there, before the US is one great big walled in prison? quote: Would you serve on such a committee who would be personally accountable for their evaluation? Would you? No, and why would I? I don't support or believe in the process. If you do you should be willing to stand behind your position and be willing to accept the consequence. If not your position is purely rhetoric. Are you advocating that a doctor who, makes a fatal error after seven hours of complicated surgury, deserves to be executed as well? The fault doesn't lie with any 'committee' it lies with the lack of direction given that committee, by the state. The state says "we need to parole 15,000 men this year. Go do it." If none of the men are even remotely qualified, who's fault is it? Besides, of course, the 'guiltless' taxpayers who refuse to accept the ultimate responsibility with their votes? quote: It's a natural influence; right up until the one who is guilty is your son, daughter, or best friend. Please don't provide your rationalization on me. If I've instilled anything in my kids it is the idea that there are consequences for actions. If they only learned that one lesson it was that they must incur the consequences. That goes for me too. Because the reality is, I have pissed outdoors, I have driven a car when, if pulled over, I would have been DUI. The fact that I wasn't arrested and was not pulled over is a matter of chance. Nowadays, I avoid the risk. But when I did those things I knew full well the potential consequence and chose to run the risk. Just like I know today I will drive faster than the posted speed limit on the way home. If caught, or my kids are caught, I will support them, but I will not condemn law or the consequence. I refuse to rationalize and try to avoid it at all cost. No rationalizations here. I'm pointing out that if the system is wrong, it's wrong for all, guilty, victims, innocent alike. You have condemned the law, same as I have, in our positions on the way the law is applied towards the parole system (for starters.) As citizens, we are entitled to offer our opinions to this effect. The consequences of bad laws can be seen plainly in many parts of the world (I live in one of them, at the moment, and see first hand what the results are.) I agree with you, fully, on the concept of personal responsibility. What I am attempting to impress upon you (and those who are following this discussion) is that no amount of personal or objective anger we have towards criminals will protect us from those criminals. Hitler regularly delighted in hearing how many were hung each day, as a result of the failed assasination attempt. I believe Megan's Laws provide the same sick titillation to the general public, and make us just as safe as Hitler believed himself to be. We wish to believe, innocently, that we live in a world that is safe and sanitary. We don't see thieves accosting Sarah Jessica Parker on dark streets on Sex in the City, and we yearn for the world we interact with to be just as safe. We couldn't give a damn if it happens in another city; until that other city's citizens break the law, and drive a sex offender to live next door to Sarah. This illusion of safety blinds us from taking the collective responsibility necessary, as a nation, to address one of the worst domestic problems in the nation; crime. Stephan

freyjasdottir -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 2:45:09 PM)
First there is no such thing as rehabilitation for sex offenders, NONE...ask anyone in your local police department, women's shelter or DA's office, dealing with a sicko now and its a slow process in the courts. Second that is not all sex offenders on that list, those lists are for convicted violent sex offenders, not 18 yr olds and their 17 yr old bf/gf or those caught peeing in the bushes. For those who think their child is safe, think again, you may be surprised at who is doing what behind closed doors or while you are at work and for whatever reason your child fears telling.

cjenny -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 3:34:38 PM)
Jeez so much aquotin going on up there ^ I can't figure out who said what when or why! [8D]

Stephann -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 3:43:10 PM)
You gotta start at the beginning, it becomes clear then. Stephan

Aileen68 -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/22/2007 3:47:37 PM)
The NJ State Police website has a link to check for registered offenders. It shows pictures of the convict and what they have been convicted of. It also tells their age and the ages of their victims. You can do the math yourself...especially when the guilty is in his forties or fifties and the victim is listed as under thirteen. That's not an eighteen year old dating a fifteen year old. Personally, I think when someone has the ability to do these horrid things to unmentionables that they have a screw loose in their brain. I don't think there is any kind of rehabilitation that can fix that. I sure as hell don't want anyone like that living near me. I could care less whether or not they have done their jail or hospital time and are "cured". I'm not gambling with the safety of my girls.

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875