RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area!

RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (Full Version)

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Stephann -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 8:57:35 AM)
The conversations we've had regarding the impossibility of rehabilitation don't hold water. The pedophile doesn't 'need' to abuse children, they are simply more prone to do so. The statement "I hate myself, but I can't change" is a psychological coping mechanism; in not recognizing the possibility of improving their lives, they feel they have no direct responsibility for their actions; thus they subconsciously enable themselves to do it. The way we refer to them as 'sickos' further isolates them from society; they see no reason to even attempt to change, because they already wear a permanent brand (legally, and psychologically.) It goes back to capital punishment as a deterrent; it's only a deterrent to someone who hasn't committed murder yet. For someone already clearly guilty and convicted, what incentive does such a person have to live within the legal boundaries of society? As suggested, dumping them all on 'some island' without children, would ensure that no children are abused; thus there is no actual need to abuse. Rehabilitation won't come from such a practice, it comes from giving these men something to gain (their freedom) and holding something over their head (repeat offenses; castration, death, whatever.) As I suggested earlier, we have sufficient technology today to, for half the cost of putting them in prison, fit them with a biometric monitor (heart rate, breathing, audio recording, GPS) on every single criminal we release. We've already established that we are willing to place monitoring restrictions well after their release them in the first place. Biometric monitoring would allow triggers for when biological reactions (similar to those experienced by pedophiles) combined with real time audio recordings (with sensors for alerts when, say, children's voices are caught) would be more than adequate to give law enforcement officials REAL tools to ensure that these men do not commit the crime again. The man in question, knowing he is always -ALWAYS- being watched, has a very powerful incentive not to engage in any sort of criminal behavior. Obviously, this won't work for all men, but it can certainly save the public money and cut down on the overall fear factor (by, hopefully, an overall drop in repeat offenses.) Simply put, the system as we have it, encourages even greater disrespect for the law; we glorify vigilante justice on television, in music, in movies, but this isn't 'justice' by any sort. When we've started throwing stones through a pedophile's window to try to drive him away, we are also breaking the law. Learning to break the law, by attacking child molesters, shows people (especially our children) that the law only matters to some, and not others. It encourages people to take the law into their own hands; next thing you know, you have parents, friends, and business partners being killed or attacked because the attitude is "If I think you don't belong here, I can do whatever I want." We're already seen as a nation of bullies; do we really want to make it worse? Stephan

pahunkboy -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 9:01:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann Dude, pls turn off the bold print. Megans law varies from state to state. Mass., had it so messed up-- --if you are caught "parking". bamn megans list. --if you piss the wrong way in the bathroom at park- hold your penis wrong- bamn- sting- lewd behaviour- megans list. [gays do bjs at parks and rest stops] --if you take a blanket go deep into woods and have sex w adult. and get caught. bamn. megans list.

SusanofO -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 9:02:04 AM)
Stephann: I think you definitely may have something there, and I tend to agree - that implying someone has no responsibility for their actions is indeed going to make them much less rehabilitatable (or, manageable might be a better word)- and that reasoning is a viscious circle. Re-location (I agree) is also a band-aid. That Bio-metric monitoring sounds like it's worth a shot - of course it would require much man(or woman) power to monitor - but life in prison is pretty damned expensive, too. Especially it's wrong if we as a society then turn around and blame them for thinking that they are completley not manageable - when society has encouraged that thinking in the first place. Pedophilia might well be very compulsive behavior - but it's probably manageable. It might be really difficult, but it's doable as far as controlling it, probably. Whether it's with drugs, counselling or whatever. But that Bio-metric monitoring sounds like it could work, and you might not have to tangle as much with the ACLU (I mean, even Martha Stewart wore an ankle monitor when she was on "house arrest" didn't she?) And the cost of life in prison really is astronomical to society. Hell, if more homeless people broke the law, they'd at least have a place to sleep. Sadly, that is, at times, why some of them commit some petty crimes. Can't we as a society try to do a little better? I am not sure why I got off on a tangent about homeless people - but I do think it's sad that some people will committ some misdemeanor, simply so they'll have a warm bed for the night, sometimes. And yes I realize Pedophilia is in no way a mis-demeanor, and am not comparing the homeless to pedophiles. - Susan

RosaB -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 9:15:17 AM)
The relocation idea sounds good, but please stop sending them all to Florida. About once every week or so, there seems that another child here is abducted or molested. On the news as I type this, there's a massive hunt for a 13 y/o boy. They say there are about 300 hundred sex offenders in the Manatee County that the police force will be reaching out to question to see if they can gather any information. This is just so disheartening, I hope they find this young boy soon and alive. Rosa

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 9:19:31 AM)
SOME SOLUTIONS TO THIS PROBLEM..1 IMPLANT A TRACKING DEVICE INSIDE THEIR BODY.@ OFF WITH THE BALLS AND MEDICATE THEM #another offense lock them up for good or just kill them off.ITS not a sickness like most agree with its just a dirty desire to use children..sorry 11 about the caps but in a hurry and can"t repost this..BH

SusanofO -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 9:19:52 AM)
Rosa: I agree that the current monitoring of these folks can be abominable. In my state, if they don't register when they move, it might come to the attention of their parole officer, or it might not - ever, really. Pretty scary. And although I am not arguing that active Pedophilia is in any way defensible, what pahunkboy said is kind of scary: In some states, it is probably surprising how little one has to actually do to be labelled a "sex offender". Again, I am not criticizing the OP for publishing this list - because I really do want to know if there is a rapist, etc. in my neighborhood (hypocritical as that sounds). I just sometimes wish there was a better solution for monitoring these people - because I am not sure making them live with a life-time of shame is doing much to make them "rehabilitated". And I am not sure how fair it is to do this - most especially after they've served their sentence. Or not. It is a complex question (IMO). - Susan

GeekyGirl -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 10:14:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO because I am not sure making them live with a life-time of shame is doing much to make them "rehabilitated". Sigh....of COURSE it isn't rehabilitating them. Rehabilition was never the point to begin with. We are not trying to rehabilitate them. The psychologists have already firmly established that they believe rehabilition is impossible for these people. Therefore the goal is merely to make people aware of how they are...basically, "You can't keep them from being pedophiles, so make sure everybody knows where they are...identifying them is our first line of defense." For the record, rehabilition is not listed as a goal for most correctional institutes to begin with, regardless of crime. When I went to jail school, they asked us this question the first day of school: "what is the purpose of a jail or prison". Immediately someone answered, "To rehabilitate criminals." Teacher quickly snaps, "Wrong! Absolutely wrong. That concept is in no way supported by the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education. The purpose of a jail (ie pre-trail facility) is containment and the purpose of a prison in containment and adjudication. We aren't here to rehabilitate them. We are here to safely house these people where they can no longer harm society and to punish them for their crimes."

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 10:37:32 AM)
When I was 18 I was looking at a dominant who was 30. When I was 14 I had sex with a 45 year old. It happens, perhaps some of those girls lied, but most probably were not. quote: ORIGINAL: MasDom Weird trend in my neighborhood. People always hooking up with girls way to young for them. When I was in Jr high I was asking out girls telling me they were dating guys 20 years old. Looking at this guess they weren't liars after all.

RosaB -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 10:43:52 AM)
Good news, the young boy, that was abducted in Manatee county Fl, at gun point, has been found safe. [:D] The details are still coming in and sketchy as stated by reporters, but, I just wanted to share the good news. The abductor is still on the loose at present, but thank goodness for the young man being found safely. Rosa

KatyLied -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 10:51:56 AM)
quote: If the best society can do as far as managing someone who is completely out of control is to brand them with a Scarlett letter in the hope it will deter their behavior - then it's clear to me that is a response that is a complete band-aid just waiting to fall off, as far as being a real solution. The scarlet letter isn't for them. It's for us, so we can take steps to protect any child in their path. I'd rather have a criminal feel bad for having a scarlet letter than a child be victimized.

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 11:06:05 AM)
I"LL say this if some lowlife would molest one of my children then GOD himself couldn't save them..WE are just too damm soft one them...BH

SusanofO -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 11:25:36 AM)
GeekyGirl: It might not be the goal in practice, but it's what I was taught was one of the societal goals when I was a CJ major. And it doesn't matter if it's practiced - if it still isn't "justice". You said you'd rather kill them off, because they are hopelessly unchanging - and that they are unchangeable because that's "just how all of them are". Wow. Even if that's true - how is that "justice" in any way, shape or form? How is it also not a gigantic rip-off to society, when things like Bio-metric monitoring would be so much less expensive? *Rosa:* Good to know, thanks for the update. *Katy:* I agree, if one has to choose, it's the lesser of two evils. My point was that, even though it might make some kids watch their kids a little more closely, if this is completely compulsive, out-of-control behavior, it doesn't make a real difference anyway. So my question still is - if that is true (and it would have to be, if it really is totally out-of-control behavior) - why are we doing it? *BountyHunter:* As you can probably already see, you are not alone in your sentiments. - Susan

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 11:29:42 AM)
YEAH KILL THEM OFF ,IT TAKES TOO MUCH OF OUR TAX MONEY TO KEEP THEM JAILED..

SusanofO -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 11:36:18 AM)
*BountyHunter:* It would be interesting to see if you'd feel the same way, if an entire society looked askance at you for your bdsm practices, for example. "Hey, I was born this way" "So what - we're gonna kill you off anyway. You're just a real sicko, that's all the reason we need." Wow, the sophisticated, compassionate reasoning blows me away. It doesn't matter if it's "consensual". There are pedophiles who also argue their practices are consensual, too. There are scads of people who do think you're an incredible sicko, because of WIIWD. And much of society doesn't think it's okay, simply because it's consensual. They think you are one, sick, evil bastard, instead, along with most of the folks here being thought of as sickos, would be my guess. - Susan

wantitnow569 -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 11:38:16 AM)
i am not sure if it's the complete lack of sleep i'm operating on here or what...But, what i feel as though You (most of You) are failing to grasp is the concept that for most people who are victimized by pedophiles or some other sexual abuser, the majority of the time it happens with or from someone they already know.... So, is this list really helping us? It's kind of like the whole new movement for restrictions regarding where sexual perpetrators can live..i understand the logic involved here, but my fear is that what it does is it creates a false sense or security... Does anyone else understand where i'm coming from here?

SusanofO -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 11:43:36 AM)
wantitnow569: An excellent point. Most (that I know of) are abused by family memebers anyway. There are kids who are attacked by un-related pedophiles, and it in no way still exscuses their behavior, but it's a lot lower percentage than it is for relatives. - Susan

MadameShy -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 11:57:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Remember, all of us are sex offenders here... Sodomy, oral sex, public sex, exposure, not to mention depraved sex acts. That said, I think all sex offenders should be shot on sight, no mercy for those depraved scum! if you wish to call yourself a sex offender do so please do Not group Me in your circle not all BDSM is sex and to be a offender there is non consent attached

SusanofO -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 12:22:55 PM)
Maybe not. But a lot of people seem to think WIIWD is pretty sick, just the same. It doesn't have to be non-censensual to be considered so, by much of society. - Susan

Stephann -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 1:45:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER YEAH KILL THEM OFF ,IT TAKES TOO MUCH OF OUR TAX MONEY TO KEEP THEM JAILED.. Thank you, kindly, for bringing up this common myth. quote: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7 At the trial level, death penalty cases are estimated to generate roughly $470,000 inadditional costs to the prosecution and defense over the cost of trying the same case as an aggravated murder without the death penalty and costs of $47,000 to $70,000 for court personnel. On direct appeal, the cost of appellate defense averages $100,000 more in death penalty cases, than in non-death penalty murder cases. Personal restraint petitions filed in death penalty cases on average cost an additional$137,000 in public defense costs. Death Penalty has Cost New Jersey Taxpayers $253 Million A New Jersey Policy Perspectives report concluded that the state's death penalty has cost taxpayers $253 million since 1983, a figure that is over and above the costs that would have been incurred had the state utilized a sentence of life without parole instead of death. My suggestion of biometrics intends to offer a few concepts. First off, the cost of prison is paid - in full - by the public. The cost of a biometric monitoring release to the US public? $0. As a condition of parole, they would be expected to cover the cost of their monitoring equipment in full, and maintain full time employment; indeed, the state could have the authority to 'assign' employment, with the caveat that failure to maintain their state appointed job, means they're going back to the prison 'General Population.' Don't suppose y'all have an idea of what General Population does to child molesters, do you? Whatever employment they're obligated to perform, it could be done fully or semi-monitored by the state (again, at the inmates cost.) His life could resemble that of a halfway-house, where his paycheck is split for his rent, food, utilities, biometric monitoring (likely on par with any quality home security company) and compensation for his victims. In fact, it wouldn't necessarily violate any rights to restrict his movements, activities, etc; we already do this with parolees. The fact that these men are being held financially liable; while at the same time given opportunities (and a huge incentive) to meet those responsibilities could very well change the nature of crime as we know it. We'll have to get over our fascination with "eye for an eye" first though. Geekgirl makes excellent contributions, in illustrating that the purpose of prison is not to rehabilitate; it's to punish and protect the public. Our financial deficit and the hard numbers of the cost of our bloated legal and penal systems are evidence of the fact that until we start addressing the roots of crime, especially in repeat offenders, we will have to resign ourselves to bringing home smaller, and smaller paychecks; because this is the real cost of prison. Of course, not to mention a tiny matter, like, actually preventing men from committing more crimes. Stephan

RosaB -> RE: Keepin'It Real - Locate Offenders in your area! (2/23/2007 1:51:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wantitnow569 i am not sure if it's the complete lack of sleep i'm operating on here or what...But, what i feel as though You (most of You) are failing to grasp is the concept that for most people who are victimized by pedophiles or some other sexual abuser, the majority of the time it happens with or from someone they already know.... So, is this list really helping us? It's kind of like the whole new movement for restrictions regarding where sexual perpetrators can live..i understand the logic involved here, but my fear is that what it does is it creates a false sense or security... Does anyone else understand where i'm coming from here? Having been and known others that were victimized by strangers and close relatives, I still see it as a viable option to start weeding out a large number of offenders. You may not gather them all, but some action is better than none if it will protect even a few. The list, educating and open communication with our kids are just some things that can be helpful. As it is now, the laws are especially too easy on pediphiles. Rosa

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