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[Poll]

English in America

Yes

72% (36)

No

28% (14)

Total Votes : 50

(last vote on : 8/16/2007 12:39:56 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 5:22:29 PM

Lorgrom

Posts: 98
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Even though I voted yes. Remember that the USA does NOT have an offical language. So requiring imagrents to learn any language as a requirement to become a citizen is wrong. Once we do have an offical language, then what ever that language is should be the requirement.

(in reply to michaelOfGeorgia)

Post #: 41

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 5:22:36 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I imagine the main reason we kicked the British out was due to their overuse of the letter U in words like
colour and flavour.

But you still speak a form of english.

Of course, 75% of the words in the English language are of French derivation.

quote:

quote:

Plus they put a horizontal slash in their 7s and Zs. Whats up with that?

Erm since when?

Maybe I am thinking of the continent. But that would be when I lived in the Netherlands years and years ago.

quote:

quote:

The whole tea, tax, triangle trade route, etc., thing was just a cover. Amusing thing, is those limey bastards bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Oh now come come sinergy - no need for name calling

I apologize for questioning the parentage of British people, and insinuating that the British Navy in the 19th century ate lots of limes to avoid scurvy.

Sinergy

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(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 42

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 5:24:48 PM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
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I never knew any1 become so defensive over a joke - jeeze lighten up.

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Post #: 43

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 5:26:50 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I never knew any1 become so defensive over a joke - jeeze lighten up.

Not defensive, missturbation, simply teasing.

Apologies if it is not sounding humourous, I had to drive an emasculating dinky forklift today when the other cranes got to drive the Real He-Man forklifts. My testosterone is screaming epithets in my head.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 44

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 5:28:41 PM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
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Oops my apologies then

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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 45

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 5:35:40 PM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

Companies now pay bi linguals more money then they do american born citizens simply because they can jabber

Are you sure it isn't because they are well educated, hard working and competent?

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Post #: 46

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 5:37:33 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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another reason is to be able to read street signs..prescription bottles.. food labels..

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(in reply to michaelOfGeorgia)

Post #: 47

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 5:46:55 PM

uglyduckling

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

should it be a requirement for citizenship in America to be able to speak, read, write and understand English?

i had thought that this was already a requirement, but cannot find a reference to it.

this is not to say that people who speak other languages have to give up those languages, but i think that we should all be able to understand each other more than we currently do.

Ability to speak, read and write in English is a requirement for obtaining US citizenship along with basic knowledge of the US government and history. I would estimate the necessary level for passing the language test at the 4-5th grade, one for passing the civics test at the high school level.

From www.uscis.gov
Naturalization is the process by which U.S. citizenship is conferred upon a foreign citizen or national after he or she fulfills the requirements established by Congress in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). The general requirements for administrative naturalization include:

a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States;
residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing;
an ability to read, write, and speak English;
a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;
good moral character;
attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and,
favorable disposition toward the United States.

Surprisingly, there are free language classes and citizenship preparation classes for immigrants. In New York state they are often provided be BOCES.

(in reply to michaelOfGeorgia)

Post #: 48

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 5:55:43 PM

EnglishDomWI

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/14/2006
Status: offline

Im actually an Englishman who has chosen to make America my home. Love the country and the majority of the people. My experience of the US immigration process was for the most part a good experience. However i will say the process was long slow and drawn out some of the procedures are so mindlessly stupid that it amazes me that anybody is ever refused entry or sent home. I will keep my English citizenship. even tho i will probably never move back to England I will always be English no matter how long i live here. Citizenship is realitvly simple to get if the person is willing to spend a little time and learn about the country he has decided to make home. The new federal agency in charge of homeland security will provide the majority of whats needed.

(in reply to uglyduckling)

Post #: 49

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 6:13:06 PM

PoisonRoses

Posts: 65
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline

Positive

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 50

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 6:17:19 PM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
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Kinda funny if you think about it. I don't know many people who speak English in America. We have a pretty good butchery of English... I call it American.

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Post #: 51

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 6:27:44 PM

mnottertail

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I would rather listen to wrap music

JimmieJam

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Post #: 52

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 6:55:50 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
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What I would like to know is why anyone would move to a new country, refuse to learn the culture and language and insist on free heath care, education and expect everything to be in THEIR language? Would they do that for others coming to THEIR country?

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 2/22/2007 7:03:47 PM >

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Post #: 53

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 8:12:55 PM

MissBabydoll

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssScarlet

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

So from your view you want American taxpayers to pay for new immigrants to learn at least grade 4 English?
That is a part of why I chose 'No'.
I am not meaning to pick on you, I just need to understand where you are coming from in order to give you an answer.

You do have a point here. I do know that my grandparents learned on their own. Personally, if I were moving to another country I would consider it my responsibility to learn their language, not theirs.
Mistress Scarlet

Seems to me that this discussion is confusing two very different issues: should *immigrants* be required to learn English, and should being able to speak and write English at (I think) a 4th-grade level be required for *citizenship*.

I don't think immigrants should be required to learn English, because they will learn it, given the opportunity--and yes, that means we should pay for ESL classes in adult schools and JCs. The cost of that is trifling compared to the social and economic cost of having a huge English-illiterate immigrant underclass that isn't earning enough to pay taxes. It drives down wages for all semiskilled and unskilled manual work, for one thing (a fact US employers take huge advantage of, to the detriment of the native-born as well). Public education for all is a crucial ladder up and has been since the end of WW2 at least. Free public English instruction is one of the most crucial ladders of all.

When it comes to citizenship, yes, it absolutely should be a requirement, and to 6th grade level. It's very difficult to be a true, active citizen of a country if you can't follow political debates as they happen, locally, regionally, and nationally. If we want this country to be a real democracy, we have to make every effort to help immigrants learn English so they can succeed economically, and require that they know it so that they can participate politically.

(in reply to MstrssScarlet)

Post #: 54

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 8:47:14 PM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

ok, for those who voted "no", i'm curious as to why not?

and which dialect of American English would be the standardized and required norm for all immigrants to learn upon taking the citizenship test?

i'm not trying to be funny - very serious about this since the US has many different dialects to its Americanized English from southern to ebonics to slang to the Bostonian to Midwestern - get my point? merely wondering do you want them to speak the king's English (from our mother country Great Britian) or do you want them to learn the proper sentence structure of American English? and if so, then we better begin within our own backyard and re-teach English to our citizens again. with our English incorporating bits and pieces as part of the language it'll be hard for any immigrant to understand sometimes that bad means good or bad actually means bad (terrible).

the reason i say this because i was a volunteer teaching Spanish-speaking immigrants Engligh and most had a hard time understanding our slang words such as awesome, radical, cool, just to name a few. oh you might think it's funny however try looking at this from their pov. then perhaps you would understand more clearly how difficult it is to learn our Americanized English.

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Post #: 55

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 9:04:00 PM

mynded

Posts: 137
Joined: 8/20/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PoisonRoses

YES YES YES. If you want to live in this country then respect it. Dont fly the flag of another country and don't speak the language from another country. Teaching them english couldnt be as expensive as having to have translators on hand for everything from courts to hospitals to schools or paperwork written in other languages. Companies now pay bi linguals more money then they do american born citizens simply because they can jabber. So now 'we' are at a disadvantage when it comes to applying for a job. Wanna come here, come legally and come willing to become an american.

Bravo! Uh...What she said.

(in reply to PoisonRoses)

Post #: 56

RE: English in America - 2/22/2007 9:19:06 PM

deadbluebird

Posts: 265
Joined: 1/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorgrom

Even though I voted yes. Remember that the USA does NOT have an offical language. So requiring imagrents to learn any language as a requirement to become a citizen is wrong. Once we do have an offical language, then what ever that language is should be the requirement.

Actually i am pretty sure just recently ( in the last year ) English actually Was made the offical language. Am i incorrect?

(in reply to Lorgrom)

Post #: 57

RE: English in America - 2/23/2007 6:24:06 AM

petdave

Posts: 2479
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl
i'm not trying to be funny - very serious about this since the US has many different dialects to its Americanized English from southern to ebonics to slang to the Bostonian to Midwestern - get my point? merely wondering do you want them to speak the king's English (from our mother country Great Britian) or do you want them to learn the proper sentence structure of American English?

Is there really any significant difference in sentence structure between UK English and US English?

Can you provide an example? i certainly have no difficulty understanding posts from Brits on the forums here.
While the U.S. may have more than its fair share of idiom and regional dialects, creating a "foundations of the English language" curriculum for a citizenship test is not impossible. Slang by its nature is dynamic, and with a firm grasp of the foundations of the language, it can be picked up "on the fly"- i certainly would not expect an immigrant to memorize it all. Regional dialects tend to be primarily accent-driven, with some slang involved (as they are in any nation), and while the spoken dialect may include some variations in sentence structure, the written form, as taught in schools, rarely does. Let's not get into Ebonics, Creole, et cetera (Gullah, anyone? Yeah, me neither. They may as well be speaking Japanese). People need to learn the language of commerce.

If nothing else, as someone who deals with a lot of small businesses, particularly convenience stores (and the Indian/Pakistani convenience store owner stereotype did not appear out of thin air, let me tell you...) i do believe that there should be a requirement that one be fluent in the English language before getting a business license in the U.S. i can fumble my way through Spanish, but there's no way i'm learning Hindi, Farsi, Cantonese, and Korean as well...i just don't have that kind of time.

...dave

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 58

RE: English in America - 2/23/2007 6:29:52 AM

JerseyKrissi72

Posts: 10238
Joined: 8/21/2006
From: Reed City, Michigan
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Learn to speak Spanish

it's a beautiful language- I am doin well with my Spanglish lol...Most countries have to learn 3 diff'rent languages...

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Post #: 59

RE: English in America - 2/23/2007 6:59:45 AM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
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From: Chicago, IL
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in response to your query, i was leaning towards the spoken English - ie hearing other Americans speaking English than reading it on paper. younger immigrants can quickly grasp the delightful slang words that color our Americanized English however what about the older immigrants or do you think only young able-bodied immigrants are entering this country? i taught seniors and after living/working in this nation for many years, they wanted to connect with their grandchilren (and sometimes great-grandchildren) yet had a very hard time understanding each other's English.

i do take offense however requiring someone who wants a business/commerce license to speak fluent English. how would you, mr politican, determine what is "fluent English" because one person's definition of "fluent" will not be the same as another's. and more than likely it would be challenged in the court system for years until someone expertly decides your definition of "fluent" the defining test to use for any foreign-speaking person wishing to do business here in the US. sounds like closet homophobia rearing it's ugly head to me - next you'll probably support a proposal circulating around Congress now - national ID cards (screw using the DLs since anyone including immigrants can get one forged) in ensure that we are all natural born and loyal Americans citizens.

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...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

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(in reply to petdave)

Post #: 60

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