RE: The American Culture

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NorthernGent -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 6:11:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 As for Kerry and Clinton, they're quite socialist as far as we're concerned, and the reason they appear centrist is to stay electable. It looks like you're confusing social policy with socialism. Just because one of your politicians wants to provide universal health care, it doesn't make him/her a socialist i.e. universal health care is a social policy that can be (and is) ran in capitalist nations. Socialism is an economic form of government where the state takes control of the nation's economic production capacity (including private property). More importantly, the working classes become the state i.e. they control the nations economic capacity, with the aim being to smash the last vestiges of class structure and lay the foundations for communism (where the state is ultimately rendered unnecessary as class structure has been smashed and everyone lives in utopian bliss). It's fair to say neither John Kerry or Hilary Clinton have a desire to dismantle private property and put it in the hands of a new working class government paving the way towards communism. Edited for spelling.

thompsonx -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 6:12:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy We actually had the discussion about World War 2 on another thread. I do not dispute that the Germany's spine was broken by Hitler's idiocy in Russia. However, what was posted about the war in the Pacific is correct. The victor of a war is not really determined by number of people killed or number of troops on the ground. Japan could not sustain any sort of real military presence in the Pacific when they could not rebuild their navy fast enough to keep up with the United States sinking their ships. Sinergy Sinergy: What I said about the war in the pacific was that it was a minor conflict in the greater arena of WWII. Japan started trying to surrender less than a year after hostilities began. The reason was that she was out of oil which was the reason she attacked the U.S. in the first place. thompson

Sinergy -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 7:18:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy We actually had the discussion about World War 2 on another thread. I do not dispute that the Germany's spine was broken by Hitler's idiocy in Russia. However, what was posted about the war in the Pacific is correct. The victor of a war is not really determined by number of people killed or number of troops on the ground. Japan could not sustain any sort of real military presence in the Pacific when they could not rebuild their navy fast enough to keep up with the United States sinking their ships. Sinergy Sinergy: What I said about the war in the pacific was that it was a minor conflict in the greater arena of WWII. Japan started trying to surrender less than a year after hostilities began. The reason was that she was out of oil which was the reason she attacked the U.S. in the first place. thompson I understand that. The reason Japan wanted to surrender was because she could not sustain a full-scale war against the military and manufacturing power of the United States. Her strategy in world war 2 was to knock out the United State's will to prevent her from conquering and controlling most of eastern Asia. As I pointed out in that other thread, she failed because she did not wipe out our carrier fleets or our will to continue the war. Sinergy

popeye1250 -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 11:29:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 As for innovation in WW2 the U.S. Navy came out with the most successful Fighter plane of the war, the F-6 "Hellcat" which in short order began to decimate the Jap "Zeros" and all other Jap planes with their 6 .50 cal heavy machine guns. Also the gull winged "Corsair" and of course the Aircraft Carriers to get them around. And you have to take into consideration the 8,000 mile supply lines in the Pacific and millions of square miles that the battlefield covered. And that means thousands of supply ships, "Liberty Ships." The war in Europe was small potatos by comparison! The U.S. (is) a "Eurocentric" country like it or not. Most of our ancesters came from Europe and from Africa as slaves. The War in Europe was small potatoes for the US because it was almost over before you where in it. Compare the casualties. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the US lost more troops in Europe than the Pacific. The USSR and Germany alone lost 16,000,000 military and that's not including civilians of any type. Some picnic. As for the best planes, this guy seems to have thought about it. http://www.chuckhawks.com/best_fighter_planes.htm Meat, I'm not disputing your figures but we were involved in the European war starting in 1941 by starting to supply Britain with all kinds of items by ships in the North Atlantic shipping routes. Canada was working with us on convoys at that time too.) Also in 1942 we really started stockpiling England with all kinds of war materials and other things and I believe that it was then that B-17s started bombing Germany. I meant that area wise the Pacific war was obviously far more vast that the European thester and a lot say that the fighting there was much more savage as the Japs have to be burned out of caves as they wouldn't surrender. And then there were the Kamikazes. And the number of ships alone that were needed in the Pacific dwarfed what was needed in Europe simply by the distances involved.

SusanofO -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 12:34:26 AM)
I think we Americans know how to have fun! After all, Disneyland and DisneyWorld started here...other countries know how to have fun, too, of course - I am referring to the peculiarity that is Disney - it is popular and known, world-wide (go Mickey Mouse!) Our romanticized version of ourselves, IMO, is that it's still the land where a person can become a self-made millionaire or billionaire, even, - with enough ambition, and brains and-or luck. I sometimes think that is still very true - this country has a LOT of enterprenuers. They might not all be extremely wealthy, but still, we seem to have more than our share of enterprenuers. Of course, other countries have them, too. Yes, there is a definite down-side to capitalism, but in many, many ways, it works very well. And ya just gotta love Wal-Mart. Where else can you do a month's worth of grocery shopping, get new eye-glasses and an eye-exam, shop for gifts and doo-dads, pick up a can of truck oil or new tires, a shed for your backyard, garden supplies, buy greeting cards and magazines - and maybe get your taxes done - all in the same place? It's so big I can sometimes get lost in there, but I am attraced by the LOW, LOw, Low, low prices. I Love that it exists. I think Sam Walton was a genius. We don't have royalty or a monarchy here, we seem to pay a lot of attention to some celebrities more, instead, IMO. Hollywood - what can you say, really? There's nothing like it (and no explanation, really - and sometimes it's great, and sometimes, it's a huge embarrassment). Ditto for Las Vegas (just how weird is that? Its a planet unto itself. The minute you get off the plane at the airport, you know for sure youre "not in Kansas anymore". But can be fun, for sure). We are an entertainment mecca - whether you like "trashy movies", or real "art" films, or casinos, or amusement parks in this country, I guess. Anyone who really believes there is no class sytem here, should re-think it (IMO). There is an ever-widening gap between the really wealthy, and the middle-class majority, and the working poor, and the just plain impoverished - and it's definitely a measurable one (at least in my community). Americans on the whole, donate more money to charity than many other countries seem to do (I can cite stats on that, if anyone is really doubting this is true). I think on the whole, most Americans feel very free to express their opinions - and they do. Hopefully when they do, they try to be respectful of others' opinions as well. I sometimes see a little too much remnant of the Vigilanteism that ran rampant when cowboys and Indians roamed, and since we do have laws and a government, even if they aren't always right or always reliable, on a local level, I sometimes find myself wishing people more would follow them (but this might just relate to stuff I see happening locally where I live). I am ok with people owning guns, but for heaven's sake, 1) Learn how to properly use one and 2) It's not a toy you can just go out and threaten people with, to feed your sense of Macho. We have a lot of freedoms here people in some other places would give their right arm to have - we even have the freedom to bitch to high heaven about things that we don't like, about the way things done are here - and I am grateful for that. I know when I was a teen-ager, whenever I complained about some superficial thing I didn't have (like the latest pair of shoes, or hair-style, or whatever) my father used to say: "Well, you were born in the U.S. That alone makes you materially better off than about 90% of the rest of the world. Think about that." And I know he's right. Another cultural myth (or reality, depending on who you ask) is that we welcome immigrants into our country - that it is a land of refuge. In some ways that is really still true. But - anyone who's read or watched news shows this year on tv ought to know it seems American culure is re-thinking that idea, as we read this. Am sure there are more things. It's an incredibly diverse nation, IMO. I've visited almost every state, and really, they all seem to have their own "personality"- they are all unique in some ways. On the whole, I'd say Americans are fairly open and friendly, IMO. Of course so are very many folks from other countries, too. - Susan

seeksfemslave -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 2:31:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL meatcleaver Although Winston Churchill, the United Kingdom's Prime Minister wrote "The only thing that really frightened me during the war was the U-Boat peril", evidence later accumulated showed that 98% of convoyed British ships in the first 28 months of the war crossed the Atlantic safely, and at no time was the U-boat force close to a successful blockade of the United Kingdom This sound like a selective use of stats. to me. I thought the U-Boots at one point were sinking ships at a rate greater than could be replaced. This was corrected by the US ability to launch Liberty ships in very high numbers. I thought it is a "given" that the US arms production capability played a major part in deciding WW2. eg which was the fighter plane most used by the RAF.....the Mustang..with a Brit engine I think. This plane was used to provide protection to long range bombers. Bit of a late reply but I only just read MC's post. Just to relate to the subject of the thread one major success of US culture WAS manufacture. Maybe it is diminishing just as it has virtually vanished elsewhere in West.

subrob1967 -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 6:14:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent It looks like you're confusing social policy with socialism. Just because one of your politicians wants to provide universal health care, it doesn't make him/her a socialist i.e. universal health care is a social policy that can be (and is) ran in capitalist nations. Socialism is an economic form of government where the state takes control of the nation's economic production capacity (including private property). More importantly, the working classes become the state i.e. they control the nations economic capacity, with the aim being to smash the last vestiges of class structure and lay the foundations for communism (where the state is ultimately rendered unnecessary as class structure has been smashed and everyone lives in utopian bliss). It's fair to say neither John Kerry or Hilary Clinton have a desire to dismantle private property and put it in the hands of a new working class government paving the way towards communism. Edited for spelling. I know quite well what the definition of a socialist government is, but thanks for posting it anyway, my opinion of Hillary and John stands. Theres nothing they would like better than to have everyone relying on the government to survive. I posted in another thread that a balance between capitalism & socialism needs to be reached for a nation to remain healthy, strong and vibrant. Unfortunately the far right Republicans only care about profits for their big business sponsors, and far left Democrats only care about redistribution of wealth, and these are the voices being heard right now.

NorthernGent -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 6:17:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent It looks like you're confusing social policy with socialism. Just because one of your politicians wants to provide universal health care, it doesn't make him/her a socialist i.e. universal health care is a social policy that can be (and is) ran in capitalist nations. Socialism is an economic form of government where the state takes control of the nation's economic production capacity (including private property). More importantly, the working classes become the state i.e. they control the nations economic capacity, with the aim being to smash the last vestiges of class structure and lay the foundations for communism (where the state is ultimately rendered unnecessary as class structure has been smashed and everyone lives in utopian bliss). It's fair to say neither John Kerry or Hilary Clinton have a desire to dismantle private property and put it in the hands of a new working class government paving the way towards communism. Edited for spelling. I know quite well what the definition of a socialist government is, but thanks for posting it anyway, my opinion of Hillary and John stands. In that case, it seems the two of them are advocating the appropriation of private property in order to place it in the hands of a new working-class government. Interesting and very surprising.

subrob1967 -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 6:24:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent In that case, it seems the two of them are advocating the appropriation of private property in order to place it in the hands of a new working-class government. Interesting and very surprising. Don't forget, they both need to stay electable which means pandering to the centrists. Watch what policies Hillary tries to implement if she gets elected President, she already said she wants to go after Exxon's profits to fund alternate fuel research.

NorthernGent -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 6:29:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent In that case, it seems the two of them are advocating the appropriation of private property in order to place it in the hands of a new working-class government. Interesting and very surprising. Don't forget, they both need to stay electable which means pandering to the centrists. Watch what policies Hillary tries to implement if she gets elected President, she already said she wants to go after Exxon's profits to fund alternate fuel research. I'm not seeing a link to socialism here. What I am seeing is an attempt to create sustainable economic growth and move away from a reliance on the misappropriation of the resources of another country.

untamedshysub -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 6:39:09 AM)
affordable health care a dream that will never come. I would love to see the books for insurance compaines in this country

meatcleaver -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 6:44:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave quote: ORIGINAL meatcleaver Although Winston Churchill, the United Kingdom's Prime Minister wrote "The only thing that really frightened me during the war was the U-Boat peril", evidence later accumulated showed that 98% of convoyed British ships in the first 28 months of the war crossed the Atlantic safely, and at no time was the U-boat force close to a successful blockade of the United Kingdom This sound like a selective use of stats. to me. I thought the U-Boots at one point were sinking ships at a rate greater than could be replaced. This was corrected by the US ability to launch Liberty ships in very high numbers. I thought it is a "given" that the US arms production capability played a major part in deciding WW2. That is one of those plucky little Britain myths, though my grandfather was torpedoed three times on the Atlantic run. It is similar to Battle of Britain with Britain improvising and hanging on for dear life, when Britain had the most sophisticated air defence system in the world at the time. The Germans certainly didn't have the impression they were making great success during the U-boat war and it was very costly for them..

caitlyn -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 6:46:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Watch what policies Hillary tries to implement if she gets elected President, she already said she wants to go after Exxon's profits to fund alternate fuel research. Thank you for pointing out a very good reason to vote for her. [;)]

caitlyn -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 6:52:03 AM)
The best thing about American culture, is that you would never see a bunch of Americans on a message board, trashing British culture to a bunch of Brits, etc ... Then again, we have Dick Cheney, who trashes everyone ... so I guess that makes us even.

NorthernGent -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 7:05:34 AM)
Give over Caitlyn, I post on a politics board and the Americans on there see us (and Europeans in general) as fair game for a healthy spot of banter. No problem, if you can't take it etc. Anyway, I'm not trashing US culture - there's good and bad everywhere, I just have a passing interest so make a comment here and there - apart from this I couldn't give a flying one. Good luck to you. Anyway, I've just been watching news of the Iranians claiming to have put a rocket into space.........won't be long, then.

seeksfemslave -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 7:12:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn The best thing about American culture, is that you would never see a bunch of Americans on a message board, trashing British culture to a bunch of Brits, etc ... Then again, we have Dick Cheney, who trashes everyone ... so I guess that makes us even. I must be the balancing force or squib cos I have never posted any thing trashing America. I never think along the lines of America this or Germany that. Developed nations are too socially/politically and culturally complicated. NO ?

WyrdRich -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 7:26:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Watch what policies Hillary tries to implement if she gets elected President, she already said she wants to go after Exxon's profits to fund alternate fuel research. Thank you for pointing out a very good reason to vote for her. No, Caitlyn, it’s a very good reason to oppose her. Exxon is a publicly traded corporation, meaning it has stockholders. Know anybody with a retirement plan? A well invested college fund for the ____’s? Those are the people Hillary wants to steal from. I don’t know about you, but I have no expectation that Social Security is going to provide the kind of life I want to lead after I retire. A tiny little fraction of a tiny little percentage of that money she thinks Government should simply confiscate is mine and some of it probably belongs to people you know as well.

caitlyn -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 7:27:56 AM)
You guys take the bait so willingly. I think there is a closet submissive in everyone. [;)]

caitlyn -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 7:39:58 AM)
Examining her voting record, what would make you come to the conclusions you expressed? She seems very business friendly to me. I'm sure you have read her books, since you have such a strong opinion. Is there anything in them that you can point to, that would indicate that she is anything but favorable towards big business and working people?

NorthernGent -> RE: The American Culture (2/25/2007 7:50:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn You guys take the bait so willingly. I think there is a closet submissive in everyone. [;)] Oi, if your parents knew you were out catching fish on a Sunday, you'd be sent to bed with no tea and grounded for a week. So, there's an Iranian rocket flying around somewhere.......?

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