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What is weakness? - 5/18/2004 10:11:01 AM   
sweetieboop


Posts: 84
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I haven't been around the boards in a while so I've been randomly picking articles to read. However, I've been coming across the same thing in all of them. People seem to be questioning what makes a Dom weak. Meanwhile, all the things that are being questioned are things that encourage a sub/slave or please them. Why is it that if a Dom/Master shows that he loves, appreciates, takes pride in his sub/slave, he is considered weak? I don't understand that concept. If a Dom/Master wants to make his sub/slave feel good (physically or emotionally) and make them happy, why is that considered weakness? If that is weakness then does that mean that subs/slaves should only feel abused, worthless, unappreciated, etc. for it to be a true D/s relationship? IMO, subs/slaves have every right to feel just as special and wanted as their Doms/Masters. Furthermore, I think it is a STRENGTH to shower someone with praise and affection, knowing that you are respected for doing so. I think that the so-called Doms/Masters who are insecure and afraid of what their subs/slaves are doing or saying all the time are the ones that are weak. Weakness to me is, not knowing that you're in control. Weakness is not, showing the appreciation or love of someone that allows you to have the control.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: What is weakness? - 5/18/2004 10:16:24 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		sweetieboop,

I have posted before that I am a passionate follower from childhood of chivalry codes when it comes to other people. I want my pet to be happy and cared for and feel honor bound to open doors for her, send flowers, buy her presents, and otherwise care for her and make her life joyful and content. I am bound by my own personal sense of honor to do things a certain way. As was stated by Liam Neeson in the movie Rob Roy: "Honor is a gift a man gives himself."

The exchange for me is that she does things for me which make my life content. She brings me coffee in the morning. She is there when I need release. She moans happily while she is being spanked and beaten. She melts into a puddle of emotional mush when I order the sushi and advise her of what she is going to have or wear that evening.

I dont see it as weakness. Additionally, I personally dont care enough about what other people think to worry whether they see me as being weak.

Peace out,

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to sweetieboop)
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RE: What is weakness? - 5/18/2004 10:43:14 AM   
sweetieboop


Posts: 84
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you so much. It is very refreshing to hear that someone agrees with me and I'm not crazy. LOL!

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: What is weakness? - 5/18/2004 12:57:10 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Sweetie,
Welcome back first of all. We did miss you...at least some of us.

In my mind weakness is nothing more than ignorance. If we are scared, why are we scared usually? Because we don't know enough not to be. If we are educated, we have no reason to be weak. Phobia's are based on ignorance as well.

That's all in the vanilla world.

As far as Dominants claiming it is weakness to show their submissives they truly care about them. I, in my own mind would say perhaps they are a top and not a Dominant at all. Tops tend to play with many. They don't want that emotional attachement there. A Dominant you are going 24/7 with should. At least you would think so anyway.
So, my opinion is it all depends on the type of relationship you have with the Dominant.

Also, how well the Dominant has evolved in their own life.

Just my two cents.

(in reply to sweetieboop)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: What is weakness? - 5/18/2004 1:25:08 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
What I think the both of you are missing here
is that it is not affection or love or emotions that
make sum Lifestylers happy. THIS is for the
most part a vanilla type end if gained from
actions that are not Lifestyle related but
relationship related. In a Vanilla life every
one wants to be loved wants to be shown
attention in a positve manner but in a
Alternate Lifestyle what makes for a good
relationship and what makes respect is the
ability for a Dominant to GIVE the suplicant
what they need be it positive or negtive to the
eyes of what society deems normal or natural
and these are one of the areas where you
do have subs come in and tempt to belittle many
times or with the support of the vanillas that
if they are not being made to feel * good* in
positive ways then the Dominant is weak and this
simply is not the fact it is also tru that pesons whom
are not truly Dominant tempt to be such and show
what sum would deem a weakness but it is actually
a vanilla nature they are seeing. I am a Sadist and all of
My slaves are masocist and there is not one of
them whom enjoys to get praise but enjoys painful
pleasures. I have tempted on many occations to
give simple effection such as a kiss or to hold a
hand and the reaction I get from those whom serve
Me is whats wrong with You? when in slave mode
it is not what a suplicant wants to feel as being less
a slave in their servitude and sum times giving such
praise or affection or attention many times will gain
a slave whom becomes unrully so they can gain more
punishments instead. One must remember here in
Alternate Lifestyles that there is a very big differance in
a sub whom is part time and vanillla the other part and
a slave whom has commited their selfs to be treated just
as the word states. to be bound and ridaculed and to be
made felt worthless or a posession this for those whom
are slaves is the positive stokes that they need and that
is why they are a part of the Alternate World and not a
part of the vanilla one as subs are only dabbling in submission
and not suplication. I am not a Dom but I am a Domme and
I can tell you what makes Me weak....anything that I cannot
gain control over even if it is the world at war or the children
starving in first, second n third world countrys or to heal
sumone terminal or to not be able to stay awake past 32
hours of no rest or sleep or a person whom proclaims to
want TOTAL control taken of their wagon but refuses to
give Me the reigns to steer. Or to have so much love for
that which is around ME that the very sight of them brings
tears that I cannot hold back.
LLLawdddd giv Me strenthhhh to faceee another dayy
burdenssss are My loaddddd to carryyyy down the roaddd
Ohhhhhhh Myyyyyy Laaawdddd~
Weakness = To give in to Nonability
and sum times We all have to do this but to Me
this does not nor has never made Me less a Dominant
just a Dominant in different postures thru My day..The
word Dominant does not = Strenth and anyone whom
feels this, is thinking on a very vanilla leval.

(in reply to sweetieboop)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: What is weakness? - 5/18/2004 3:41:03 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		sweetie, I think that there is a difference depending on whether you are a slave or sub. A slave's joy comes from their service. It is not from being shown affection or appreciation. If I am not mistaken, a Gorean Master is under no obligation to even treat his slave well.
As far as being weak if you do show affection, love, appreciation, etc. , I don't think it is a sign of weakness at all. Unless it is done because the Dom fears his sub or slave may leave otherwise. Then it could be.

(in reply to sweetieboop)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: What is weakness? - 5/18/2004 6:46:45 PM   
indigo302


Posts: 127
Joined: 4/28/2004
From: Delaware
Status: offline
quote:

In a Vanilla life every
one wants to be loved

Hmmm...I see being loved as a "human" need...not based on slavery or vanilla life.

quote:

I have tempted on many occations to
give simple effection such as a kiss or to hold a
hand and the reaction I get from those whom serve
Me is whats wrong with You? when in slave mode
it is not what a suplicant wants to feel as being less
a slave in their servitude and sum times giving such
praise or affection or attention many times will gain
a slave whom becomes unrully so they can gain more
punishments instead.


While I won't argue this is your experience, though in my own experience, even when in "slave mode" as you call it, many want to know that while they are being humiliated, beaten, etc...it is done with love and respect( or whatever name you give this emotion) rather than some negative emotion. And many though they do not seek the praise necessarily, thrive on it. It's always good to know when you've done well, be it in the vanilla realm or bdsm.

quote:

to be bound and ridaculed and to be
made felt worthless or a posession this for those whom
are slaves is the positive stokes that they need and that
is why they are a part of the Alternate World and not a
part of the vanilla one as subs are only dabbling in submission


So if one does not enjoy feeling worthless, being ridiculed and such, they are not a slave? Again, I disagree.

quote:

A slave's joy comes from their service. It is not from being shown affection or appreciation.


Again, even though a slave's joy comes from their service....and not directly from the praise and affection, I do not think these things are obsolete.

I'm not sure a slave who is unappreciated, and unhappy will serve well or stay long.

So perhaps the strength in a dominant or Master is his ability to allow his emotions to show from time to time, rather than in his ability to belittle and ridicule.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: What is weakness? - 5/18/2004 8:16:42 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		No, praise and affection are not obsolete. But if a slave is serving to get them, then they are not a slave. And as I stated right after the statement you used from my post, I don't think a Master showing those things to his slave is weak. I am very affectionate to my slaves. But that is my choice.

(in reply to indigo302)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: What is weakness? - 5/19/2004 12:34:02 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		indigo302
I base My
observations
off of My experiances
the vanilla people
I do know thrive on
positive strokes the
Lifestyle people I know
thrive on negitive strokes
that is all
and not all humans have a
need to be loved. sum have
a need to be not loved.

respect and honor and trust yes
but love not nessisaraly I disagree

I was speaking of My slaves and to
disagree about whats Mine is well kind
of rediculous

not giving praise and affection doesent
surmount to unhappiness or unappreciation
not all thrive on positive strokes and most in
a Alternate Lifestyle do not. A Dominants
strenth is in the ability to give what the
suplicant needs be it positive or negitive
strokes
JMO

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: What is weakness? - 5/19/2004 4:29:21 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

No, praise and affection are not obsolete. But if a slave is serving to get them, then they are not a slave. And as I stated right after the statement you used from my post, I don't think a Master showing those things to his slave is weak. I am very affectionate to my slaves. But that is my choice.


I have not had, nor do I desire to have, a slave. I see nothing wrong with it, it just is not for me.

Estring hit it on the head; It is my choice how I behave and treat my submissive. I do not need to justify my actions (although sometimes I do) and if the person seeking to be my submissive wishes something else, than she will need to continue her search and find somebody compatible with her needs.

Or maybe it is just the riding around on horses wearing a tin can and holding a sword and saving damsels in distress that makes me all giddy.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: What is weakness? - 5/19/2004 10:41:44 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

No, praise and affection
are not obsolete

This is tru however what
I was trying to say is that
praise and affection comes
in MANY forms and all are
not deemed to be what
society deems normal
in the application of it
being negitive instead
of positive which is what
Alternates are here for
and what makes Us not
accepted by the world as
a whole and even sum
Tops or bottoms or subs
or vanillas who carrouse
Our areas and make a
statment about. I am trying
to show that praise can
be the words like what the
hell you got it right for once
instead of oohh you did a good
job, as both a negitive and
positive show of affection and
is in line to what the need of
the bottoms/sub/slv desires
and affection can be a pat on the
head or a slap in the face and
accepted equally as such by the
person whom strives for both
things in their Own ways and the
Dominant whom gives either item
is not weak in doing so but strong
in doing so even if it goes against
what the soothsayers say or society.
And I agree with Estring (go figgure)
that it is the sub that strives for strokes
be they positive or negitive ones and a
slave whom serves for the inner self
with out a need for strokes at all but
the need to serve in all ways to what
ever end the Dominant desires be it
negitive or positive.

weakness is being sumone whom
does not know what they want but
not being tolerant of others that do
JMO

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: What is weakness? - 5/19/2004 10:51:54 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
This is a good sample of the differances in"
Tops/bottoms
Dominants/submissives
Master-Mistress/Lord-Lady/slaves
and where those whom are new to
BDSM or D/s need to understand
and those subs or Dominants that
feel there is no difference, which there is
and this shows a perfect sample of such
with those whom are D/s and those M/s
and their beliefs and ways of thought, And
the extream differences in the applications.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: What is weakness? - 5/19/2004 2:53:57 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

And I agree with Estring (go figgure)



Well Dread, there is hope for you after all.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: What is weakness? - 5/19/2004 6:03:04 PM   
inyouagain


Posts: 418
Joined: 1/6/2004
Status: offline 		Hi and welcome back sweetieboop. Gestures of any type, even a smile can be taken as a weakness by those digging for skeletons. What has been posted over and over again regarding most any aspect of a BDSM relationship, is that "what is right for you and your partner" is all that matters... forget keeping up with the Jones'es, or staus quo.

I believe that you will find various gestures/levels of appreciation from most any Dominant... it could range from a simple smile to a "wine & dine" outting, or gestures of affection some as simple as a hand on your shoulder at the right time... to holding hands in public, or even being given a "spoil session" like a nice bubblebath and shave. These acts and gestures of appreciation and affection in no way make the Dominant weak... in fact, absence of same could very well in fact make the Dominant appear weak, or afraid to express themselves in such "silly" ways.

IMHO, "silly" ways of affection and appreciation only strengthen a relationship, but bear in mind they cannot be choreographed from the bottom. Take and appreciate each one, regardless of as simple or sophisticated as it may be... it is essentially the feedback loop you eluded to.

Feedback is extremely important, all types... mental, physical, and spiritual or soulful. Feedback quite naturally includes positive feedback (yes, even warm fuzzies). A Dominant who tends to be afraid to express positive feedback in any aspect is simply limiting themselves... and of course the environment in which they desire their sub/slave to flourish in.

In short, positive feedback of all sorts is a part of "nurturing", but don't try to get Perverta to agree with my demented philosophy.

Inyouagain

< Message edited by inyouagain -- 5/20/2004 10:03:30 PM >

_____________________________

Careful with that axe, Eugene

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RE: What is weakness? - 5/20/2004 7:51:58 AM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		wow what a thought provocing post this is.

Estring said "No, praise and affection are not obsolete. But if a slave is serving to get them, then they are not a slave."

Ok well i am not a slave but it did get me to wondering if i do what i do for Master just for the affections and possitive strokes He gives me. Perhaps in a way yes. See i was in a nilla marriage to one who never showed affection. i was starved for affection. i promised myself when i left him that i would never be with a man like that again. So if Master weren't the wonderfully affectionate Man that He is. i wouldn't be here serving Him. However if i refill His mug with water and He doesn't give me a kiss or even thank me i've never considered not filling His mug next time or even acted hurt. Heh so i'm still trying to figure out if i do it for the strokes or not.



MistressDREAD said " I am trying
to show that praise can
be the words like what the
hell you got it right for once
instead of oohh you did a good
job, as both a negitive and
positive show of affection and
is in line to what the need of
the bottoms/sub/slv desires
and affection can be a pat on the
head or a slap in the face and
accepted equally as such by the
person whom strives for both
things in their Own ways "


wow i can honestly say i don't think i've ever met anyone whom would think a "wow you finally got it right this time or a slap in the face were postive strokes. Honestly if i did meet someone like that i would wonder about that persons self image. Do You think that with Yours it's a self image thing that drives them to desire those kinds of strokes or is it something else that i don't understand?

(in reply to inyouagain)
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RE: What is weakness? - 5/20/2004 9:11:42 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		My first bdsm experience was online and my Dom would praise me frequently, but when He did He always said "but don't tell anyone, that's off the record", like the praise can't be part of the scene. I guess that was just his view of being a dom.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to liljoy)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: What is weakness? - 5/20/2004 9:19:48 AM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I had a slave who told me that she was never humiliated by anything she was told to do by me. No matter what it was. She said that it was her purpose to serve and obey, and that is what she does. No matter what. It is the same in the matter of praise and affection. A slave doesn't serve to recieve those things. But I would think a good Master would include praise and affection in his dealings with his slave. But that is his choice. And it doesn't make him weak.

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: What is weakness? - 5/20/2004 4:43:05 PM   
sweetieboop


Posts: 84
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you for all your greetings. After reading some of these comments, I'm not sure if I asked this question the right way. I'm not trying to debate what is considered positive or negative behavior. As Dread said, everyone has their own preferences and needs so it will vary from one person to the next. What I don't get is why if a Dom wants to give pleasure to his sub, he is considered weak. For instance, there was a post asking if it makes a Dom weak to want to give oral sex to his slave. There was also a post asking if giving flowers with a nice note saying how much he appreciates his slave would make a Dom seem weak. Why would these things be considered a weakness? Just because it is making the slave feel good? I don't understand.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: What is weakness? - 5/20/2004 4:54:18 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		It shouldn't be seen as a weakness at all sweetie. But I am sure you have heard it said that women don't respect men if they are too nice. Maybe that is where it started. I guess I should change my ways. No more Mr. Nice Guy!

(in reply to sweetieboop)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: What is weakness? - 5/20/2004 5:00:45 PM   
sweetieboop


Posts: 84
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Estring,
Well, if you are going to change yourself because of how some may perceive you, then wouldn't THAT make you weak? LOL! ;)

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 20
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