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RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 2/28/2007 8:17:39 PM

MsPoetress

Posts: 1066
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Invictus754

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPoetress

Which he only started using within the last 3 months. An Incovienent Truth came out in October.
~poe

The source quoted only said:
quote:

Gore purchased 108 blocks of "green power" for each of the past three months, according to a summary of the bills.

it didn't cite usage before that, but it didn't discount it either. For all we know he has been purchasing 108 blocks for three years, but they couldn't get the records to show it, so they only reported what they had factual evidence for (Like good reporters are supposed to.)

But according to public records, there is no evidence that Gore has signed up to use green energy in either of his large residences. When contacted Wednesday, Gore’s office confirmed as much but said the Gores were looking into making the switch at both homes. Talk about inconvenient truths.

http://belowthebeltway.com/2006/08/10/al-gore-is-a-hypocrite

The article is dated August 8, 2006.

~poe

_____________________________

~poe

I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

(in reply to Invictus754)

Post #: 61

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 2/28/2007 8:25:32 PM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

since he is fashionably in agreement with your beliefs

I don't think I've stated any beliefs in this thread, actually.

You are correct.

I apologize for the hasty assumption.

FirmKY

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 62

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 2/28/2007 8:26:31 PM

dcnovice

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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

As well, what about Bush's "Beyond Kyoto" ecological initatives to reduce carbon usages? Bet ya ain't even heard of those, have you?

Did some quick Googling and learned that the agreement is called the Asia-Pacific Partnership for Clean Development and Climate.

Also found an interesting quote from John McCain, who's hardly a liberal Bush-basher: "The [Asia-Pacific] pact amounts to nothing more than a nice little public-relations ploy. It has almost no meaning. They aren't even committing money to the effort, much less enacting rules to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions." (Source: Muckraker)

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 63

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 2/28/2007 8:34:28 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

I apologize for the hasty assumption.

No problem!

I do think global warming needs to be addressed--and soon--but I stop short of issuing prescriptions, since (a) I'm not an expert and (b) I'm keenly aware of not walking the walk myself.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 64

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 6:35:56 AM

puella

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I am pretty much done with this trivial tit for tat hit campaign going on. The exact kilo-wattage Gore uses to blow dry his pubic hair is completely unimportant to me, and is irrelevant to the core issue. It is pointless and actually, totally plays into the agenda that is being implemented with this whole 'report'. In fact, it is just a distraction (as it was meant to be) from the important message we have the opportunity to hear.

I don't care if his power turn over started last week or 6 years ago. The issue is much simpler. He is trying....are you? He is not demanding that the little guy shoulder the burden. He is simply asking people to be aware, and take some sort of stand against what he and the vast majority of the scientific minds of our planet have found to be a staggeringly alarmingly truth.

I can not afford a hybrid car, I can not afford to switch to green energy, I have no desire, nor is it reasonable for anyone to expect me to live in a shack with no power. The greater message which is being lost is that we need to fix THAT problem. There is no reason for these things to be out of the average person’s range of options.

Al Gore has not asked anyone to live beyond their means to try to be eco-friendly, he simply tries to raise the awareness of what is going on, and asks is that you try to do something to better your immediate interaction with the world. He also tries to push unwilling political and business entities to start putting into place the means to allow an actual change to take place, and to allow everyone to have the means to allow that to take place.

Shooting the messenger for not being a pristine Christlike enough figure is childish at best, and does not negate the fact that he does try, has been trying and is doing more to try to fix this problem than any of those who are so willing to serve as a detractor.

No one said you have to like Al Gore to understand that what he is trying to show to us (not even Al Gore), and that what he is hoping to achieve is not only a good idea, but is becoming more and more a global imperative every year.

The man is not the message.

< Message edited by puella -- 3/1/2007 6:36:53 AM >

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 65

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 9:01:20 AM

sleazy

Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I'm more pissed off about the sell-off of AMERICA's Generation and Grid to FOREIGN COMPANIES.

The move to "National Grid" was the worst thing ever to happen to America's Security. We can't even keep our own lights on anymore without the Hated British.

Dont worry, it may not be long and it wont be the brits, but Gazprom that owns it all. Go research the nationality of that corporation, then choose between them or the brits!

Just remember the hated british gave you the computer, that self same great grandpappy of what you type on today, and of course the jet engine, imagine where Boeing would be now without it, and thats just the first two that spring to mind

_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 66

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 10:03:28 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Puella,

The hubris of many people can be extremely frustrating, especially those who seek to discredit Gore that are actually in the know. The people repeating the disinformation do not know any better, but there are those that do know the truth and they just do not care because it is all about greed and getting theirs.

The sad thing is, the very people that are parroting this disinformation are the very people that will be impacted by the loss of jobs, arable land for agriculture, and shrinking coastlines. They are usually the same people that are against nationalized healthcare and do not understand that there may very well be epidemic diseases we have not even begun to contemplate hitting our country because the globe is so small and when ecosystems are disrupted disease often results.

Unfortunately most people cannot see beyond tomorrow, and they cannot grasp macrolevel issues like global warming. As long as they cannot see the impact they will be in denial about it.

Yours is the only post I have bothered to read on this thread, because I do not want to get into an argument about issues I spent two years of my life studying. Basically I have sat next to people in college that were hearing the same information that I was and they were in deep denial about what the professors were showing them. I realized then we are probably fucked, I only use the "f" word for emphasis about the dire situation we face as a species, if people looking at the information in front of them that are specializing in the field of climate science cannot accept it emotionally and mentally, it is doubtful that many lay people can. \

In 2001 I discussed global warming with one of my biology professors that specialized in environmental pollution and its effects on biotic part of ecosystems. He worked on chernobyl about 20 years after the meltdown to determine what happens when humans are banned from an ecosystem. He was surprised to find out that there were genetic defects, but that most species thrived just because humans were removed from the equation.

He tended to think that global warming was an exaggerated threat. I did not. So about 3 years later I ran into him and he brought it up to me, and said that he wanted to go to Antarctica to study microorganisms before the caps thawed in the next couple of decades.... his mind had been changed completely.

We sit here and we argued about global warming for decades while the planet built up mega amounts of CO2, now I watch as we debate whether we caused it. I have no faith anything will be done about it before it is too late because people would rather bash the messenger (Gore) instead of change what they are doing. Heads in the sand until it is too late.

No sense in getting bummed out about it, I tried that approach and I realized it was futile for me not to enjoy my life because no one else wants to pay attention.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to puella)

Post #: 67

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 4:33:33 PM

MsPoetress

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Joined: 4/4/2006
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I am not against a better environment, I use to work for an environmental company.

I am against having Al Gore as a spokesman. They should have picked someone who has been an environmental activist for a majority of their life. Not someone who needed something to do to remain in the spotlight, because he didn't win the election.

~poe

_____________________________

~poe

I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 68

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 4:42:39 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Ralph Nader perhaps---

Look, people the rich are always with us, and if the guy can save a lumen of electricity or two, why can't we?

I mean it is never gonna be fair, and there will be wastrels............but why cant I use your cunt, when you aint using it you selfish bitch? rather the same argument that has been forwarded against the conservation of resources---

Sure, we got beaver in New York, and look what that has cost us, and the Rockefellers wouldn't know a beaver if they cut them in half with their custom built 24million dollar Chris Craft that has the shape of prince edward island...

I bet you are the type of saps that vote and think that it makes a difference-------

you gotta be kidding me.......

What is carved on your gravestone, people?

Ron the Undead

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to MsPoetress)

Post #: 69

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 4:44:04 PM

WyrdRich

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Hubris??? Hubris is when people take 140 odd years worth of measurments and declare they see patterns in the climate of a 4 billion year old planet. Hubris is when they declare (and insist that the debate is over!) that this particular period of warming is completely unrelated to any other periods of warming and all the fault of evil Capitalism. Hubris... To steal a line from one of my favorite movies, "I do not think that word means what you think it means."

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 70

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 4:46:33 PM

sleazy

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Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

MsPoetress, I think there are good grounds for using a "convert" as a spokesman. In many aspects of life, smoking, drinking, religion, animal rights, to name the first few that spring to mind I have found that the converts, the born-agains, the newcomers to be far more passionate and zealous in their "preaching" if such a person already has a guarantee of air-time and media space as a result of their past or present standing then so much the better for the cause.

_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to MsPoetress)

Post #: 71

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 4:53:25 PM

MsPoetress

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Joined: 4/4/2006
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Sleazy, when did he convert?
Before he was asked to make the movie? Which took how long to make, and was just released in October 2006.
Why did he wait until December 2006 to use renewable energy sources?
Is he really passionate about helping the world change or is he in it for fame (which it looks like to me)?

I would really like to know.

~poe

< Message edited by MsPoetress -- 3/1/2007 4:54:47 PM >

_____________________________

~poe

I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

(in reply to sleazy)

Post #: 72

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 4:59:11 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

While driving today I heard the "average" US Citizen generates 50,000 pounds per year. #1 in the world. One coast to coast flight on a private jet is the equivalent of 90,000 pounds per round trip.

I wish I wasn't driving and could write down the source. I'm open to correction on those numbers. I did find an article that listed the UK average at 10,000 pounds/citizen. Not hard to belief the discrepancy on the use of public transit alone.

Meanwhile, just for fun, I found this while looking for the source of the above information. http://www.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.html

Whether you are one to isolate yourself reading and listening only to articles in agreement with your position or not. None of us should want to be represented or have their cause represented by a hypocrite. The problem is; in the present batch of options, "Waldo" is easier to find than a candidate without hypocritical baggage.

I looked into the buying of "energy offsets". There is no accounting office keeping track of this. The money is alleged to go to people planting trees. For "X" amount of energy the theory is to plant "X" amount of tress. Where? Who? Is this similar to buying a tree for Israel? Why not make an impact and lower personal energy use AND plant a tree or two? Nah...makes too much sense for someone so dedicated.

Edited to correct:
Whoops - should have been pounds/citizen. I had tons.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 3/1/2007 5:42:12 PM >

(in reply to MsPoetress)

Post #: 73

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 5:04:08 PM

MsPoetress

Posts: 1066
Joined: 4/4/2006
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quote:

The problem is; in the present batch of options, "Waldo" is easier to find than a candidate without hypocritical baggage.

LMFAO!

~poe

_____________________________

~poe

I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 74

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 5:07:30 PM

mnottertail

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Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Hubris??? Hubris is when people take 140 odd years worth of measurments and declare they see patterns in the climate of a 4 billion year old planet. Hubris is when they declare (and insist that the debate is over!) that this particular period of warming is completely unrelated to any other periods of warming and all the fault of evil Capitalism. Hubris... To steal a line from one of my favorite movies, "I do not think that word means what you think it means."

no, hubris is what you are doing. no cause, your entire argument consists of hubris, not only that but your facts are facile arguments, you talk about 140 years like you lived them and this is the law, you wouldnt know a cold day if it hit you in the ass........Capitalist''''

Oh, this kinda shit just exudes wood, so--- you're thinking it is far to early to take a wait and see attitude? I bet you were an honor medal recipient in the Civil war or your ancestors were.

It may or may not pass any type of cognizance with you people that the state of minnesota has not been cashing in on the carbon credits laws, so there is a buzz about here that we have ours coming and (they are grandfathered) so there are some people that are starting companies, to not do something, and make their money by selling carbon credits, now if any of you real world people remember CCC.........WAKE UP! If not, you armchairs continue citing the sources of your masters and when you made your money, book a little canoe trip with me.

LOL, I am dying out here.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 75

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 5:11:05 PM

sleazy

Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPoetress

Sleazy, when did he convert?

I do not know, nor am I certain it is particularly relevant

quote:

Before he was asked to make the movie? Which took how long to make, and was just released in October 2006.#

Again I know and care not, but is it not possible or feasible that the act of making the movie caused him to convert?

quote:

Why did he wait until December 2006 to use renewable energy sources?

Tracking back you asked me when he converted, now you seem clear it was 4 months ago

quote:

Is he really passionate about helping the world change or is he in it for fame (which it looks like to me)?

I would really like to know.

~poe

For all points, if he has a positive effect does that not make all such arguments null & void? If somebody is doing their thing for their cause what does the motivation or length of service to the cause matter?

For the record I care little for green issues, and even less for any politician, but I hate to see a man condemned without a fair trail simply for taking a stance on a controversial issue.

_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to MsPoetress)

Post #: 76

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 6:23:25 PM

MsPoetress

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Joined: 4/4/2006
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I understand that a spokesperson is a person who speaks on behalf of others, and not necessarily a part of the cause. I want someone who is passionate about the cause, and has been passionate. Not someone that jumps on a cause to suit his own personal agenda. That is what see Al Gore doing.

That is just my opinion.

Now for something funny - A former Canadian defense minister is demanding governments worldwide disclose and use secret alien technologies obtained in alleged UFO crashes to stem climate change, and global warming according to a local newspaper in Canada, the Ottawa Citzen.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_030107/content/01125101.guest.html

~poe

_____________________________

~poe

I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

(in reply to sleazy)

Post #: 77

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 6:27:18 PM

WyrdRich

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     I'm a full century shy of 140, Ron, but that left me on the planet long enough to know that we don't know shit. Long enough to remember being taught that the next ice age was about to begin because the temperature had dropped in the last 30 years.

    What's wrong with reducing pollution output because clean air is nice to breath? Why the constant Chicken Little crapola? It can't be an issue, it can't be a potential problem, it has to be the end of the whole freaking world and life as we know it (and the polar bears are drowning).

    If hubris is insolence in the face of the Gods, and Al Gore is one of the new ones, then stoke the execution fire, baby, 'cus I'm gonna moon him.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 78

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 6:31:01 PM

deadbluebird

Posts: 265
Joined: 1/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPoetress
Is he really passionate about helping the world change or is he in it for fame (which it looks like to me)?
I would really like to know.
~poe

This is not about fame. I think it is kind of shamefull that you would think someone trying to inform people about the state of our planet is truly only seeking fame. For many years he has been involved in environmental issues.

"According to a 27 February 2007 article in The Concord Monitor, "Gore was one of the first politicians to grasp the seriousness of climate change and to call for a reduction in emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouses gases. He held the first congressional hearings on the subject in the late 1970s.""

(in reply to MsPoetress)

Post #: 79

RE: Al Gore's "Carbon Footprint." - 3/1/2007 6:39:33 PM

Masternslave07

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Joined: 12/29/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

    I'm a full century shy of 140, Ron, but that left me on the planet long enough to know that we don't know shit. Long enough to remember being taught that the next ice age was about to begin because the temperature had dropped in the last 30 years.

   What's wrong with reducing pollution output because clean air is nice to breath? Why the constant Chicken Little crapola? It can't be an issue, it can't be a potential problem, it has to be the end of the whole freaking world and life as we know it (and the polar bears are drowning).

   If hubris is insolence in the face of the Gods, and Al Gore is one of the new ones, then stoke the execution fire, baby, 'cus I'm gonna moon him.

I too remember the "coming ice age" being touted as a certainty in the mid 70's. Funny though, I don't recall Al Gore warning us of a global warming danger as he said he was doing 30 years ago.
People buy into this nonsense because they react emotionally, instead of looking at the facts. An example is the fact that as the Canadian government found out from a recent study by their climatoligists, polar bears are in fact increasing in numbers. Not dying off as Al Gore and other nuts would have you believe.
The funny thing is, as we see the lifestyle that Gore and many others who are so adamant about Global Warming live, it is obvious to anyone with a brain, that they don't even believe what they are saying.

_____________________________

You can lead a horse to water, but not a cow.

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 80

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