Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Should healthcare be a right or a privilege?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 5:45:38 PM   
Sternhand4


Posts: 422
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? By right, I mean as a citizen, born or naturalized, are we entitled to a certain level of medical care. By privilege I mean, are you entitled to all the healthcare you can afford?

For a long time this issue has needed national debate. Here in the US we do not have a socialized medical system covering the entire US. There is s patchwork system from Medicare/ Medicaid and various state programs.

But none of these address the underlying question of right or privilege.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 5:54:28 PM   
Mikal


Posts: 3673
Status: offline 		In my opinion, it's a right, just like education. I don't really understand how people can think otherwise. Now, this doesn't apply to cosmetic stuff! If you want bigger floatation devices or the like, cough up the moolah yourself. But things like cancer, broken bones, disfigurations (ie port wine stain on the face - especially when it causes people to stare, misshaped limbs), etc. should be available to everyone.

A person is entitled to all the cosmetic healthcare they can afford.


_____________________________

You know that I am a sexy penguin.

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 5:57:38 PM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		Trust me, being from a nation with the "right" of treatment, you dont want to go that route. The hospitals will soon be run by beauracrats and empire builders, patients will have no place in the systems and be little more than an inconvenience. Look at any other tax funded program for an example

_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 6:00:18 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I believe that it should be a right, and it is cost effective for it to be so. By taking care of the health of the many, we are all better off. We are more productive employees, we take less time off work, kids that are healthier learn better and grow up to be more productive, if people wait longer for healthcare they become more expensive to treat. For example that kid that lost his life from a tooth infection would have been much easier and less expensive to treat for the toothache and the amount of resources it took to treat him when he was dying far exceeded the cost of a tooth extraction.

We have social security insurance for people who die and have UMs. My father passed away because our insurance lapsed because he owned his own business and we were having hard times. Because of this when he had a heart attack he avoided going to the hospital and because of this he died, although insurance would not have covered it as it was a pre-existing condition (he was born with heart problems). If we had socialized medicine I wonder if he would be alive today. Because he passed away we ended up on social security for several years, we would not have needed it had he been alive. I am sure my story is not the only one out there like it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 6:00:45 PM   
deadbluebird


Posts: 265
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		A right.
Isnt it the humane way to do it?

(in reply to Mikal)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 6:02:23 PM   
SilverWulf


Posts: 196
Joined: 4/7/2005
Status: offline 		Basic healthcare for life threatening situations is already a right.  No emergency department can turn you away and must provide basic care.

Everything else above and beyond that, is dependant on what you can afford and should remain that way.

(in reply to sleazy)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 6:06:19 PM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		I know it only covers one very narrow aspect of public healthcare, but anyone thinking that it saves lives and money should check out Tom Reynolds working at the sharp end of medicine in a country with free healthcare, he does also link to other medical professionals at various points

http://randomreality.blogware.com Yes there is an awful lot there but the problems with (mis)management and state interference crop up regularly.

Having experienced healthcare both here and in the US I know where I would much rather be treated.

_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to deadbluebird)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 6:16:39 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		I always laugh about the word "right."

A right consists of three things:  Someone granting it, someone respecting it, and someone defending it when it is not respected.

For example, the right to free expression.  The governement grants it, everyone should respect it, but when you call a guy on the street a fat lazy fuck, who's going to defend it in time to keep you out of the hospital?

Now, for health care:  Should it be a right?  Sure!  Why the hell not?  Who will respect it?  The government, by not cutting funding, ensuring efficient service, and the likes.  Who will defend it if they do?

If the taxpayer doesn't want to pay for it, they won't defend the right.  And a fat load of good it does us then.

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to sleazy)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 6:20:23 PM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline



Having experienced healthcare both here and in the US I know where I would much rather be treated.
[/quote]
Me too and it is the opposite to you. As with many things there has to be an element of what you can afford. In the UK for emergency treatment and longterm medication it is of a reasonable standard for all, and affordable to all. You also have free access to the inital diagnosis for all. In the US even with insurance this is not the case and everyday people make the wrong decision about whether to attend medical centres and whether they can aford it. The clinics then undertake numerous tests which may or may not cost a fortune and you have little or no idea what it will cost. I am fortunate as my company picks up 100% of the cost above that paid by the insurer but many of my colleagues do not get this. There are people who have not had an effective pay rise for 3 years because the medical costs go up faster than their pay, and the amount per visit they have to pay increases. Children reach an age  where they stop being covered by parents medical cover but do not have the jobs / money for insurance themselves. As a whole the point is the USA Inc pays more in medical costs than any other nation and yet 43 million people have no cover, it is not an efficient, cost effective method and they are being ripped off by medical companies. POOL the money and there could be cover for all and in the long run it is cheaper.

(in reply to sleazy)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 6:25:37 PM   
quietkitten


Posts: 1082
Joined: 2/5/2005
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		All I can say is a country cannot be healthy if it's citizens are all unhealthy..

_____________________________

The number 1 cause of stress is reality.

I miss my old Avatar :(

<< I am a depressed procrastinator with Alzheimers -- I am going to end it all.... tomorrow... or the next day.

Now what was I talking about again?

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 7:20:56 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Healthcare should definitely be a right. I also think the government should raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for it. It's not like that will hurt the economy any since most of the new jobs they create are overseas.

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 7:30:45 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Another brilliant idea.

First off, wealthy people generate more new jobs locally per dollar spent than you or I.

Why?

Because a very wealthy person's money is spent on service, whereas ours is spent on goods.

For example, you buy new shoes at WalMart.  You pay $20.  Locally, WalMart has few employees which get money from that sale.  The rest of the money goes into paying overhead, the shoe itself, and and profit for the shareholders.

A wealthy person buys shoes, they spent $400 or more.  The service involved is an hour of trying on, testing, considering and testing again.  This creates jobs locally.

In the same way, the restaurants they eat at, the shows they see, the cars they buy all focus on service, which employs people locally.

Granted, some large companies outsource, so we could argue they should pay, but no company actually pays taxes, they just pass them on.

Another idiotic thread hijack which I really should have ignored.

Oh well.

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 7:38:09 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Service jobs. What a joke!! There are many employed homeless people in the United States. Their service jobs not only don't provide healthcare, they also don't pay them enough to afford rent, food, and other necessities. If the rich don't want to provide decent paying jobs and health coverage, let them foot the bill for government healthcare.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 7:46:27 PM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

Having experienced healthcare both here and in the US I know where I would much rather be treated.
Me too and it is the opposite to you. As with many things there has to be an element of what you can afford. In the UK for emergency treatment and longterm medication it is of a reasonable standard for all, 
 
Depends on a definition of "reasonable standard", have a look at the rate of serious infections gained within UK hospitals, have a look at the waiting times both for say a hip replacement and an ambulance in a major city at 3am. Harder yet, find a dentist that accepts state funded patients that actually has room on his books for more patients
quote:
and affordable to all. You also have free access to the inital diagnosis for all.
12 years to get a doctor to agree to a real problem (after 12 years of regular scrips for painkillers) and refer to a physiotherapist who noticed a major problem in the first session, another 3 months for a specialist refferal and x-rays, another 2 months for an MRI scan, thats pushing 13 years to diagnose a stretched ligament. Ok technically that should be re-diagnose as it was in my notes from the initial visit to the ER following the accident that there was a likelihood of longterm damage
quote:

 In the US even with insurance this is not the case and everyday people make the wrong decision about whether to attend medical centres and whether they can aford it. The clinics then undertake numerous tests which may or may not cost a fortune and you have little or no idea what it will cost. I am fortunate as my company picks up 100% of the cost above that paid by the insurer but many of my colleagues do not get this. There are people who have not had an effective pay rise for 3 years because the medical costs go up faster than their pay, and the amount per visit they have to pay increases. 
I elected to have no pay rise at all but to subscribe to a private health plan as the state funded system is such a mess
quote:

Children reach an age  where they stop being covered by parents medical cover but do not have the jobs / money for insurance themselves. As a whole the point is the USA Inc pays more in medical costs than any other nation and yet 43 million people have no cover, it is not an efficient, cost effective method and they are being ripped off by medical companies. POOL the money and there could be cover for all and in the long run it is cheaper.

Unconvinced

More than £92 billion of our taxes is poured into the health service annually. That’s around £1,800 a year for every man, woman and child in England and Wales. We are assured that things are getting better all the time. The NHS certainly boasts more bureaucrats and fancy computer programs than ever before. Yet a semiconscious 86-year-old lies in a pool of her blood for 65 minutes waiting for an ambulance. In what sense is that progress? What are the NHS’s priorities, if not for dealing with that? source http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/richard_morrison//article1407734.ece
 
My private health plan costs me about a quarter of the share of one person, not of one taxpayer. It also covers many things that are NOT provided free to the average working guy by the state healthcare system


Edited for formating and to supply link for quoted text.

< Message edited by sleazy -- 3/1/2007 8:00:01 PM >

_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to Dtesmoac)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 7:54:15 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Sounds like more doctors are needed. I bet alot more people would become doctors if it didn't take so many years of schooling. Doctors would be just as skilled in the medical field with much less time spent in school if they only had to take courses related to that field.

(in reply to sleazy)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 8:02:46 PM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		Unfortunately DefiantBG that is a problem that is rooted in both education and healthcare. Our education system makes no allowances for studying useful trades, and doctors are prevented from actually treating patients by the red tape and administrative interference



_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 8:03:07 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Everything should be a right. Food, clothing, housing, medical care, transportation. EVERYTHING. I shouldn't have to work for anything, NOBODY should have to work - the government should just magically provide. And if I'm too stoopid to take care of my kid, too stoopid to get him to the dentist when he has rotten teeth, govenment needs to hold my freaking hand and do that for me too.

<Sarcasm off>

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 8:08:16 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		What about the people who work for everything and still can't afford health insurance? You seem to be forgetting that many US jobs are service jobs that pay next to nothing.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 8:09:52 PM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Everything should be a right. Food, clothing, housing, medical care, transportation. EVERYTHING. I shouldn't have to work for anything, NOBODY should have to work - the government should just magically provide. And if I'm too stoopid to take care of my kid, too stoopid to get him to the dentist when he has rotten teeth, govenment needs to hold my freaking hand and do that for me too.

<Sarcasm off>



Come live in the UK then, it would be paradise for you  in many respects <sarcasm not installed !>

_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? - 3/1/2007 8:18:06 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Where will you draw the line, dbg. Why not go all-out Socialist / Communist, and give EVERYTHING away. Why isn't EVERYTHING a "right"? Why should I have to work for anything - why do only the people who work hard get to get ahead. They get the best jobs, the best insurance, you name it. It's terrible!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What about the people who work for everything and still can't afford health insurance? You seem to be forgetting that many US jobs are service jobs that pay next to nothing.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094