Should healthcare be a right or a privilege?

Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (Full Version)

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Sternhand4 -> Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 5:45:38 PM)
Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? By right, I mean as a citizen, born or naturalized, are we entitled to a certain level of medical care. By privilege I mean, are you entitled to all the healthcare you can afford? For a long time this issue has needed national debate. Here in the US we do not have a socialized medical system covering the entire US. There is s patchwork system from Medicare/ Medicaid and various state programs. But none of these address the underlying question of right or privilege.

Mikal -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 5:54:28 PM)
In my opinion, it's a right, just like education. I don't really understand how people can think otherwise. Now, this doesn't apply to cosmetic stuff! If you want bigger floatation devices or the like, cough up the moolah yourself. But things like cancer, broken bones, disfigurations (ie port wine stain on the face - especially when it causes people to stare, misshaped limbs), etc. should be available to everyone. A person is entitled to all the cosmetic healthcare they can afford.

sleazy -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 5:57:38 PM)
Trust me, being from a nation with the "right" of treatment, you dont want to go that route. The hospitals will soon be run by beauracrats and empire builders, patients will have no place in the systems and be little more than an inconvenience. Look at any other tax funded program for an example

juliaoceania -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 6:00:18 PM)
I believe that it should be a right, and it is cost effective for it to be so. By taking care of the health of the many, we are all better off. We are more productive employees, we take less time off work, kids that are healthier learn better and grow up to be more productive, if people wait longer for healthcare they become more expensive to treat. For example that kid that lost his life from a tooth infection would have been much easier and less expensive to treat for the toothache and the amount of resources it took to treat him when he was dying far exceeded the cost of a tooth extraction. We have social security insurance for people who die and have UMs. My father passed away because our insurance lapsed because he owned his own business and we were having hard times. Because of this when he had a heart attack he avoided going to the hospital and because of this he died, although insurance would not have covered it as it was a pre-existing condition (he was born with heart problems). If we had socialized medicine I wonder if he would be alive today. Because he passed away we ended up on social security for several years, we would not have needed it had he been alive. I am sure my story is not the only one out there like it.

deadbluebird -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 6:00:45 PM)
A right. Isnt it the humane way to do it?

SilverWulf -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 6:02:23 PM)
Basic healthcare for life threatening situations is already a right. No emergency department can turn you away and must provide basic care. Everything else above and beyond that, is dependant on what you can afford and should remain that way.

sleazy -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 6:06:19 PM)
I know it only covers one very narrow aspect of public healthcare, but anyone thinking that it saves lives and money should check out Tom Reynolds working at the sharp end of medicine in a country with free healthcare, he does also link to other medical professionals at various points http://randomreality.blogware.com Yes there is an awful lot there but the problems with (mis)management and state interference crop up regularly. Having experienced healthcare both here and in the US I know where I would much rather be treated.

gooddogbenji -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 6:16:39 PM)
I always laugh about the word "right." A right consists of three things: Someone granting it, someone respecting it, and someone defending it when it is not respected. For example, the right to free expression. The governement grants it, everyone should respect it, but when you call a guy on the street a fat lazy fuck, who's going to defend it in time to keep you out of the hospital? Now, for health care: Should it be a right? Sure! Why the hell not? Who will respect it? The government, by not cutting funding, ensuring efficient service, and the likes. Who will defend it if they do? If the taxpayer doesn't want to pay for it, they won't defend the right. And a fat load of good it does us then. Yours, benji

Dtesmoac -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 6:20:23 PM)
Having experienced healthcare both here and in the US I know where I would much rather be treated. [/quote] Me too and it is the opposite to you. As with many things there has to be an element of what you can afford. In the UK for emergency treatment and longterm medication it is of a reasonable standard for all, and affordable to all. You also have free access to the inital diagnosis for all. In the US even with insurance this is not the case and everyday people make the wrong decision about whether to attend medical centres and whether they can aford it. The clinics then undertake numerous tests which may or may not cost a fortune and you have little or no idea what it will cost. I am fortunate as my company picks up 100% of the cost above that paid by the insurer but many of my colleagues do not get this. There are people who have not had an effective pay rise for 3 years because the medical costs go up faster than their pay, and the amount per visit they have to pay increases. Children reach an age where they stop being covered by parents medical cover but do not have the jobs / money for insurance themselves. As a whole the point is the USA Inc pays more in medical costs than any other nation and yet 43 million people have no cover, it is not an efficient, cost effective method and they are being ripped off by medical companies. POOL the money and there could be cover for all and in the long run it is cheaper.

quietkitten -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 6:25:37 PM)
All I can say is a country cannot be healthy if it's citizens are all unhealthy..

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 7:20:56 PM)
Healthcare should definitely be a right. I also think the government should raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for it. It's not like that will hurt the economy any since most of the new jobs they create are overseas.

gooddogbenji -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 7:30:45 PM)
Another brilliant idea. First off, wealthy people generate more new jobs locally per dollar spent than you or I. Why? Because a very wealthy person's money is spent on service, whereas ours is spent on goods. For example, you buy new shoes at WalMart. You pay $20. Locally, WalMart has few employees which get money from that sale. The rest of the money goes into paying overhead, the shoe itself, and and profit for the shareholders. A wealthy person buys shoes, they spent $400 or more. The service involved is an hour of trying on, testing, considering and testing again. This creates jobs locally. In the same way, the restaurants they eat at, the shows they see, the cars they buy all focus on service, which employs people locally. Granted, some large companies outsource, so we could argue they should pay, but no company actually pays taxes, they just pass them on. Another idiotic thread hijack which I really should have ignored. Oh well. Yours, benji

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 7:38:09 PM)
Service jobs. What a joke!! There are many employed homeless people in the United States. Their service jobs not only don't provide healthcare, they also don't pay them enough to afford rent, food, and other necessities. If the rich don't want to provide decent paying jobs and health coverage, let them foot the bill for government healthcare.

sleazy -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 7:46:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac Having experienced healthcare both here and in the US I know where I would much rather be treated. Me too and it is the opposite to you. As with many things there has to be an element of what you can afford. In the UK for emergency treatment and longterm medication it is of a reasonable standard for all, Depends on a definition of "reasonable standard", have a look at the rate of serious infections gained within UK hospitals, have a look at the waiting times both for say a hip replacement and an ambulance in a major city at 3am. Harder yet, find a dentist that accepts state funded patients that actually has room on his books for more patients quote: and affordable to all. You also have free access to the inital diagnosis for all. 12 years to get a doctor to agree to a real problem (after 12 years of regular scrips for painkillers) and refer to a physiotherapist who noticed a major problem in the first session, another 3 months for a specialist refferal and x-rays, another 2 months for an MRI scan, thats pushing 13 years to diagnose a stretched ligament. Ok technically that should be re-diagnose as it was in my notes from the initial visit to the ER following the accident that there was a likelihood of longterm damage quote: In the US even with insurance this is not the case and everyday people make the wrong decision about whether to attend medical centres and whether they can aford it. The clinics then undertake numerous tests which may or may not cost a fortune and you have little or no idea what it will cost. I am fortunate as my company picks up 100% of the cost above that paid by the insurer but many of my colleagues do not get this. There are people who have not had an effective pay rise for 3 years because the medical costs go up faster than their pay, and the amount per visit they have to pay increases. I elected to have no pay rise at all but to subscribe to a private health plan as the state funded system is such a mess quote: Children reach an age where they stop being covered by parents medical cover but do not have the jobs / money for insurance themselves. As a whole the point is the USA Inc pays more in medical costs than any other nation and yet 43 million people have no cover, it is not an efficient, cost effective method and they are being ripped off by medical companies. POOL the money and there could be cover for all and in the long run it is cheaper. Unconvinced More than £92 billion of our taxes is poured into the health service annually. That’s around £1,800 a year for every man, woman and child in England and Wales. We are assured that things are getting better all the time. The NHS certainly boasts more bureaucrats and fancy computer programs than ever before. Yet a semiconscious 86-year-old lies in a pool of her blood for 65 minutes waiting for an ambulance. In what sense is that progress? What are the NHS’s priorities, if not for dealing with that? source http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/richard_morrison//article1407734.ece My private health plan costs me about a quarter of the share of one person, not of one taxpayer. It also covers many things that are NOT provided free to the average working guy by the state healthcare system Edited for formating and to supply link for quoted text.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 7:54:15 PM)
Sounds like more doctors are needed. I bet alot more people would become doctors if it didn't take so many years of schooling. Doctors would be just as skilled in the medical field with much less time spent in school if they only had to take courses related to that field.

sleazy -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 8:02:46 PM)
Unfortunately DefiantBG that is a problem that is rooted in both education and healthcare. Our education system makes no allowances for studying useful trades, and doctors are prevented from actually treating patients by the red tape and administrative interference

Sanity -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 8:03:07 PM)
Everything should be a right. Food, clothing, housing, medical care, transportation. EVERYTHING. I shouldn't have to work for anything, NOBODY should have to work - the government should just magically provide. And if I'm too stoopid to take care of my kid, too stoopid to get him to the dentist when he has rotten teeth, govenment needs to hold my freaking hand and do that for me too. <Sarcasm off>

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 8:08:16 PM)
What about the people who work for everything and still can't afford health insurance? You seem to be forgetting that many US jobs are service jobs that pay next to nothing.

sleazy -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 8:09:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Everything should be a right. Food, clothing, housing, medical care, transportation. EVERYTHING. I shouldn't have to work for anything, NOBODY should have to work - the government should just magically provide. And if I'm too stoopid to take care of my kid, too stoopid to get him to the dentist when he has rotten teeth, govenment needs to hold my freaking hand and do that for me too. <Sarcasm off> Come live in the UK then, it would be paradise for you in many respects <sarcasm not installed !>

Sanity -> RE: Should healthcare be a right or a privilege? (3/1/2007 8:18:06 PM)
Where will you draw the line, dbg. Why not go all-out Socialist / Communist, and give EVERYTHING away. Why isn't EVERYTHING a "right"? Why should I have to work for anything - why do only the people who work hard get to get ahead. They get the best jobs, the best insurance, you name it. It's terrible!!! quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl What about the people who work for everything and still can't afford health insurance? You seem to be forgetting that many US jobs are service jobs that pay next to nothing.

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