puella
Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
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Hello juliaoceania,
I realize that my post was less than clear,sorry, I was writing on the fly.
I think what I was trying to get at is that for me there are vast differences in the way Dominants can get the results they want from their submissives, and that actually, sometimes the total of what some dominants want can be very different between different types.
To me, the two 'methods' you spoke of, love and fear conjure up two very different sets of variables. I would tend to believe that you will get submission from love and oppression from fear. I do understand that the general coloring of the word oppression as we employ it most often does not really encompass all of what I was trying to express with the word. So though I know it is a bit drainful, let me supply a couple of definitions for illustrate my comparisons between submission (driven by love) and oppression (driven by fear): (I used submit instead of submission, as the definitions for submission were, in general, rather unspecific... "the condition of having submitted", etc) sub·mit    /səbˈmɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[suhb-mit] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -mit·ted, -mit·ting. –verb (used with object)
1. to give over or yield to the power or authority of another (often used reflexively).
2. to subject to some kind of treatment or influence.
3.to present for the approval, consideration, or decision of another or others: to submit a plan; to submit an application.
4. to state or urge with deference; suggest or propose (usually fol. by a clause): I submit that full proof should be required.
–verb (used without object)
5. to yield oneself to the power or authority of another: to submit to a conqueror.
6. to allow oneself to be subjected to some kind of treatment: to submit to chemotherapy.
7. to defer to another's judgment, opinion, decision, etc.: I submit to your superior judgment.
op·pres·sion /əˈprɛʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-presh-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.
2. an act or instance of oppressing.
3. the state of being oppressed.
4. the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, anxiety, etc.
You can really see with the definitions, the very subtle nuance of language which, in application, leads to very different results.
Submission has no definitive 'negative' (for lack of a better word) words associated with it...yield, deference, "some kind of treatment... which has no implicit leaning either toward positive or negative...
When looking at oppression, the words are much darker, and all can be inspired by fear ...budensome, cruel, troubles, adverse conditions, anxiety, etc.
I think there can many more 'methods' of getting the results you want from a submissive than simply love or pain, and I do not mean to imply that you were using those two to suggest that idea.
But of those two which Machiavellian principals look at, when sort of, realigned to fit this paradigm, I think those are the results you get.
Like it or not love is (or should be) a positive emotion. Fear is a negative emotion. One can utilize and/or manipulate either of those emotions, however, to achieve pleasing or displeasing outcomes. Some dominants find the 'baggage' of love to be cloying;some find the fear to be deliciously heady.
I do not think however, that in the end, you can hide from the meanings of words, even if their connotations do not appeal to you.
< Message edited by puella -- 3/2/2007 6:01:14 PM >
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RE: Machevelli Domination - 
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