RE: Sabotaging your chances.

RE: Sabotaging your chances. (Full Version)

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ShiftedJewel -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/4/2007 6:44:03 PM)
*I've read this thread completely and wanted to add. I'm grateful, I don't feel so alone in what I do even if what I do isn't necessarily a good thing.* And I wanted to add... I've been at this for a very long time and I've often used the same words and phrases.. like "culling the herd", "picky", "particular". They are, after all, pretty window dressings. I've also sworn that I know exactly what I am looking for, what I will settle for and what I will compromise on. But when it came down to the wire I didn't have a clue what I wanted. I met a man that was so far from someone I would have given a second glance too. I enjoyed talking to him, very intelligent, great sense of humor, but no sparks at all. Funny enough is the fact that I wasn't what he was looking for either. We've been married for a while now and he is the love of my life, my breathe, my soulmate, my best friend, my confidante' and my reason for never giving up. I want that part of me back, the part that steps outside the box and looks past what I think I want, or what I think I need, because I know for a fact it works. Because sometimes what you really want or need shows up looking like something you would have never thought about, never considered. But I know that I can't do it by myself, there are a lot of people that need to step out of the box and start living life like the journey it is. One of my favorite quotes would be "If you want to hear God laugh, tell Him you have a plan". *Jewel*

SweetSarijane -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/4/2007 6:45:00 PM)
Phantom red flags? Yes, I've had those too. After being burned so bad, having your self esteem so damaged, it is so hard not to see red flags in other attempts at relationships. You are so afraid of getting ripped apart even more that you see things that aren't there. Oh yeah, been there done that.

cjenny -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/4/2007 6:53:23 PM)
ShiftedJewel that was beautifully said.

nissa -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/4/2007 7:03:07 PM)
quote: As a D/s are/do you sabotage a potential relationship for fear of failure? No; not for fear of failure. I have on occassion done so though out of fear of loving too deeply. quote: Are you afraid you cannot live up to their expectations of Dominance/submission? No. The only expectations I expect to live up to are those that I place upon myself. quote: Do you nit pick them looking for a reason to sabotage or not even initiate contact. Yes. But not for the reasons you have put forth in this post.

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/4/2007 7:11:52 PM)
Thank you for a beautiful post Jewel. Very thought provoking.

afeathr -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/4/2007 7:48:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll I was looking at a very interesting post on ask a Mistress and wanted a chance to bring a similar post to the general forum. So I will pose the questions to both D and s. As a D/s are/do you sabotage a potential relationship for fear of failure? Are you afraid you cannot live up to their expectations of Dominance/submission? Do you nit pick them looking for a reason to sabotage or not even initiate contact. I know that I do it, though it's really unintentional. Sir has pointed out that I have a tendency to pick fights for no reason (though only 2 times in the last year with him) and that he thinks that is my way of trying to scare him off -- I can't say that I disagree. I have been betrayed too many times to look forward to it happening again. Fortunately, Sir recognizes that in me and after several talks over the last few weeks, I am feeling more comfortable with the whole situation. I know that I have the "self-fulfilling prophesy" thing going on... I keep hoping to turn it around for the good.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/4/2007 8:17:24 PM)
Troll quote: Are you afraid you cannot live up to their expectations of Dominance/submission? This is SO common on so many levels. They are so terrified of topping from the bottom that they never state their needs or downplay them. Reality is you can't top from the bottom unless the top isn't up to the job. In fact, WITHHOLDING that information is the only real way to top from the bottom. But it takes a long time to learn that. They have notions of what they should be doing and instead of asking or even listening, they think they are failing because they meet those notions. Many inexperienced submissives think their submission should be easy, or that they should be able to obey without hesitation. Hell if they could do what I wanted effortless, I would ask them to do something else. I WANT to see them struggle. Along the same lines are images of what dominance should look like. I am sure for some, they are the same no matter who their submissive/slave/bottom is but it isn't that way for me. One thinks of a dominant as being the manly man and perhaps always ordering the food and choosing for the submissive. A wonderful woman I was with knew far more about food than I and I had her order FOR me because I got tired of wanting what she ordered! I tend to cook for my women, does that make me submissive, NO! Again, for me, I reversed role with that woman and let her cook for me. The problem comes in when a submissive sees their dominant doing something they percieve as "submissive" and reacting to their perception of what they should be doing rather than stepping back and looking at it from a perspective of "our relationship is unique and this works for my dominant". Some nights I shouldn't post and instead should focus on this horrible paper I am working on.

sublizzie -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/4/2007 8:22:20 PM)
You know, SimplyMichael, I've come to the place where I figure if a Dominant wants to do something, then it's the dominant thing to do. There's nothing particularly "submissive" about anything a Dominant does.

mythi -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/5/2007 8:33:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sublizzie You know, SimplyMichael, I've come to the place where I figure if a Dominant wants to do something, then it's the dominant thing to do. There's nothing particularly "submissive" about anything a Dominant does. That was pretty much my response...except in my head "so long as sometimes what I want to do IS what my Dom wants to do" got added in there somehow. [sm=lol.gif] And maybe it's cus I got a wicked nurturing streak, but I don't think I could be happy with a Dom who was always the strong, rigid, "this is the way Domly-Doms are and I'm a Domly-Dom" type. I like more well-rounded characters in my stories. And for me anyway, it's a lot braver and more self-secure to come home after a bad day and ask for some much-needed cuddles just because you need them and dammit who's in charge here?!?! If you wanted something that could be perceived as weak and you chose to forego it because of other people's perceptions...isn't that the same as submitting to their rules? scratches head That jus' plain goes agains' my whole idea-r of bein' the one in cun'troll of the sit-choo-ashun! Or, then again, maybe I shouldn't have had that 2nd glass of wine with dinner and tomorrow I'll be all like, "Doms = beer-guzzling, butt-scratching, club-slinging, macho manly-men! ugh!" Nahhhhhhhhh.......

mythi -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/5/2007 9:24:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel *I've read this thread completely and wanted to add. I'm grateful, I don't feel so alone in what I do even if what I do isn't necessarily a good thing.* And I wanted to add... I've been at this for a very long time and I've often used the same words and phrases.. like "culling the herd", "picky", "particular". They are, after all, pretty window dressings. I've also sworn that I know exactly what I am looking for, what I will settle for and what I will compromise on. But when it came down to the wire I didn't have a clue what I wanted. I met a man that was so far from someone I would have given a second glance too. I enjoyed talking to him, very intelligent, great sense of humor, but no sparks at all. Funny enough is the fact that I wasn't what he was looking for either. We've been married for a while now and he is the love of my life, my breathe, my soulmate, my best friend, my confidante' and my reason for never giving up. I want that part of me back, the part that steps outside the box and looks past what I think I want, or what I think I need, because I know for a fact it works. Because sometimes what you really want or need shows up looking like something you would have never thought about, never considered. But I know that I can't do it by myself, there are a lot of people that need to step out of the box and start living life like the journey it is. One of my favorite quotes would be "If you want to hear God laugh, tell Him you have a plan". *Jewel* I really gave this one some more thought, as you seem to be quoting my post a lot there, and I'm ALL for facing up to my own blindness when someone points out that my eyes are closed! (cus I'm accident prone and already trip and fall enough) But I have to stick with my original opinion on this one, at least so far. I don't have a long list of do's and dont's all engraved in pretty cursive. I'm not looking for Sir SuperDom to come riding in on a white unicorn tacked out in butterflies and daffodils. But I do have a few deal-breakers which are things that I know from experience I simply won't be satisfied enough without or alternately which will make me deeply-soul-achingly-lose-a-piece-of-myself unhappy to do. And no, not going to get into specifics, but one comes to mind that I've lived without for the last 12 years and 2 more you can add on a few years to that...and I WILL NO LONGER BE DENIED! coughs demurely By the same token, things I once thought I couldn't live without I've since discovered aren't really as vital as I believed them to be. And a couple things I used to enjoy freely, I would now find diminishing and self-destructive (for me). So forgive my subborness if that is indeed what it is, but some of my needs and don't-needs have been well tested. The rest? Only time and experimentation will tell. Which lands me back on the love and trust square of the board. Cus without those, you're not really giving time or experimentation a fair shot. If you want to step out of your box and go on a journey, then you'll have to fight past the wild beasties and scary monsters you encounter along the way and keep going. Or it's going to be a reeeeeal short trip!

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/5/2007 10:08:54 PM)
Thoughts on Sabotage FukinTroll I too have a harsh list on my profile. It's pretty upfront and truthful about things which I have a difficult time dealing with or won't fit with me and my life. It's full of humor, but every good joke there's the truth. I tried to show a little about my soul, that I can be funny and warm. Yet, I am firm in what I don't want to deal with or put up with. Sabotage? Perhaps, some have passed me over from the things I have written. If so, then what I wrote served it's purpose. I'm not looking for anybody, any old thing which comes along. I do from time to time troll the profiles, write personalized messages. It takes time, so whoever I write it is because I found something attractive about them on there profile. Be it simple words, or a pretty face. I've change the opening this last week, I think what I had before was a kind of self sabotage. It was too limiting and cold. Because I was too busy making a list of what not, instead of expressing what I was looking for. I too like to take things at whatever pace I am feeling... I Love to ask questions, and listen to what they have to say, how they feel or think. I have been taking extra care in being totally blunt and honest at times. Perhaps too honest! But oh well, that's better to sabotage something with honesty, then wait for it to be sabotage from hiding things or small white lies... things which can grow into monster creatures. I have found it take strength at times to post some of the things I have on this message board. In terms of some threads... Such as "how did BDSM help you", I almost did not make the post I did, but I was not happy not coming clean with the truth. Sure I could have left it alone, but then what's the point. Are we all not here to exchange stories, thoughts, opinions, ideas and experiences? If somebody thinks I'm too open about something for my own good, then so be it. I've manage to sabotage it at least in a righteous manner, I can wake up the next day and not feel bad.

FukinTroll -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/6/2007 2:05:28 AM)
My god you people are a credit to the community. As you could tell I was doing some introspection and thought I would try and provoke your thoughts as well. Your posts helped me Identify many things that I could not quite articulate. Thank you all and by all means continue.

ShiftedJewel -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/6/2007 3:28:08 AM)
mythi, I know how my words come across sometimes and it isn't always the way I meant for them to come across. Of course everyone has certain things they simply will not accept or absolutely have to have. But there are a LOT of people that have this ideal in their head about what they are looking for with no room to wiggle, that's what I was talking about. Too many go through life looking for the imperfections of every potential partner they meet rather then focusing on the humanity of that individual. I'm sure we all know the at least one of them... the "OMG, you should see the way he combs out his hair after a shower... it drives me NUTS" type of person. That's generally followed by "I just can't live with that" attitude. All I was saying is that those are the people that will spend a great deal of time alone because they are looking for absolute perfection in extremely imperfect people. I can say that because for the longest time I refused to accept anyone that didn't live up to what I believed I wanted and needed in my life. It took getting slapped around a little bit by reality for me to understand that what I thought I was looking for didn't exist and what I really needed and wanted is what found me. Simple advice, open the doors and windows and be ready for what you want and need to find you. *Yes, there are beasties and monsters along the way... but no one ever got anywhere by staying in one place.* *Jewel*

wandersalone -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/6/2007 4:14:11 AM)
I am doing a little travelling in a few weeks and have arranged to stay for part of the time with a very good friend of mine that I have known online for about 5 years. I find myself constantly saying to him - I am coming over to visit just as a friend right, you know that don't you? .... laughs, when in fact who knows, I think I may quite possibly feel a spark of attraction for him. Wow, this is quite confronting for me and in the past I would have got around it by staying in a hotel the whole time but instead I am staying for a couple of days with him. Maybe my saboteur has taken a little holiday from my life....how strange. :)

SlyStone -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/6/2007 5:56:39 AM)
I enjoyed reading this thread. We always talk here about the external limits people hold in place, the I won't do needles or scat or whatever and how they reflect on us as dominants or submissives. But I think these limits are the easy part in our effort to define ourselves in d/s bdsm terms, we need them and we use them and they shift with our experience and with our broadening perspectives. But the real limits we hold in place are those subconscious ones that guide us and misguide us through our lives. The ones that tell us not to try something new because we are afraid or not to give a new person in our lives a chance to get close because they will disappoint us or not to seek happiness because we are undeserving. I think those are the limits to think about and focus on, because they are the ones that truly define us, and when we grow old and look back at our lives, they are the ones that will have determined how it was lived, whatever path it is that we have chosen.

ShiftedJewel -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/6/2007 7:20:46 AM)
*Wow, some incredible philosophies have come out on this thread. Sly, you have a wonderful way with words.*

cloudboy -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/6/2007 7:23:06 AM)
Pessism plays a negative role in meeting challenges. As a person, its always best to concentrate on what gives you confidence and its desirable to control and minimize fears. The best example of this is a bomb expert called into to deactivate a mine. When he's deactivating the mine, he's better off not thinking about what would happen if it exploded, especially if that thought causes his hands to shake or disturbs his concentration. In tennis the thought of, "I don't want to double fault here," is better replaced by "I want to get this serve in the middle of the box." There is a direct connection between one's attitude and outcomes. In terms of relationships, "fear of failure" results in neurotic and unconfident behavior, which is not an attractive trait during courtship. Its better to be confident, communicative, and vulnerable. When things are going well, its easy to be confident, but when things have been going poorly, exuding confidence is a real challenge --- because even though past circumstances will have no direct bearing on a new situation or opp't, it can turn a person into his own worst enemy. SimplyMichael's comments on the neurotics of submission were excellent as well. Doms don't want subs to stifle themselves, unless the Dom expresses a direct order to do so.

Mustardseed -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/6/2007 7:56:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FukinTroll As a D/s are/do you sabotage a potential relationship for fear of failure? Are you afraid you cannot live up to their expectations of Dominance/submission? Do you nit pick them looking for a reason to sabotage or not even initiate contact. After a fairly frightening first date with my Daddy, I deliberately tried to sabotage the relationship. Or, at least, that's what I thought I was doing. I did pretty much everything that was in my own best interest that I thought would send him screaming off into the distance: 1. I clearly stated that I required prior negotiation for some of the activities that happened that night. 2. I thought about what I'd really want out of my first D/S relationship, and made a list that became known as The Labours. These involved questions about himself, observing how he got along with some of my social circles, and eventually more ... carnal stuff. [&:] 3. I met up with John a few weeks later to discuss the situation on neutral ground: a futon in the social area, within yelling distance of dungeon monitors and random buddies. We discussed that first impromptu date, whether we should bother trying again, whether he'd be willing to be on probation, and how he felt about the Labours being presented to him one at a time. 4. I practiced better boundary setting and defense. He didn't run screaming. Given the potential of first impressions, he was supposed to have run screaming. Instead, he was happy that he was being given a second chance, and already adored being asked questions about himself. [:o] I remain grateful to my former self that I concentrated on elements that were actually important to me rather than making up random stuff for the sake of having flaming hoops for John to jump through. But I was pretty certain at the time that there was no way that he was going to think I was worth that kind of aggravation -- I'd driven away less deliberately dominant lovers with less. I must admit that this approach has cince been the death of some other kinky relationships I've had. However, that doesn't bother me too much, no matter how disappointing it is. A set of actions born out of the certainty that noone would consider me worth the trouble -- created from low self-esteem -- has allowed me to relax into the love of my life. It's set the bar for any future tops and bottoms who I'll play with on anything other than a casual basis. So, yes -- I engage in relationship sabotage on a fairly regular basis. At this point, I consider it cleaning house.

dawntreader -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/6/2007 11:01:42 AM)
Well said [:)] quote: ORIGINAL: SlyStone I enjoyed reading this thread. We always talk here about the external limits people hold in place, the I won't do needles or scat or whatever and how they reflect on us as dominants or submissives. But I think these limits are the easy part in our effort to define ourselves in d/s bdsm terms, we need them and we use them and they shift with our experience and with our broadening perspectives. But the real limits we hold in place are those subconscious ones that guide us and misguide us through our lives. The ones that tell us not to try something new because we are afraid or not to give a new person in our lives a chance to get close because they will disappoint us or not to seek happiness because we are undeserving. I think those are the limits to think about and focus on, because they are the ones that truly define us, and when we grow old and look back at our lives, they are the ones that will have determined how it was lived, whatever path it is that we have chosen.

SlyStone -> RE: Sabotaging your chances. (3/6/2007 4:49:20 PM)
What a nice thing to say, thank you.

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