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FirmhandKY -> RE: The Double Standard rears it's head (3/6/2007 9:41:47 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: domiguy
No I don't see the same crap ...
Ok, let me Fisk my own post:
Because she is funny as hell, and she gets a rise out of blind-ideologue-liberals who can't see that she is just mirroring - in only a small measure - the things that "they" have been saying about the "other side" and getting away with for years and years.
Thesis: Coulter is making bad jokes and hurtful humorous comments like many who oppose her political beliefs have done for years.
If I fisked the quotes you gave, I could easily give you counter-examples on the "left" that are much, much worse, yet are taken seriously, and without much comment from the "liberal left".
But since she is on the "other side", her behavior is somehow more reprehensible than the numerous other "comedians" and "funny guys" from the "left", but examples are legion from that side. Not talking about Franken specifically. Talking about "the left" in general.
Franken? You don't see the same crap in his words and writing? Just look at the titles of his books, domi. Now there is trash-talking if I've ever seen it.
You see an "up at arms" attack on him for "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Liar"? How about "Lying Liars and the Lies they Tell?"
Just one example, based simply on the titles to some of his books is Al Franken. You don't think that "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot" (sorry, had the title wrong in the original) and "Lying Liars" are intentionally meant to be insulting?
And for the same reason that Coulter is "funny insulting" ... to get attention, sell more books, and make more money.
Franken came to mind because the title of his books are well known, and not in question, not necessarily because he is the worst (or "best") of the lot, but because I didn't think we'd get into a deep discussion about sources.
Hell, Coulter could say a lot worse, for a lot longer before she even approached some of the venom and rhetoric that comes out of the "funny" liberal left.
Coulter is one of the few (Limbaugh also comes to mind) on the right side of the political spectrum that does what many "comedians" on the left do, and have done for years. But notice, again, I'm specifically talking about the "funny left" in general, and not Franken specifically
Nowhere is my post did I make any claim that if you compared Coulter and Franken side by side, you'll get exactly equal examples.
You might. You might not.
I'm not a real Franken fan, and I'm not really into reading all his material in detail, or spending hours searching the web for exact counter-parts.
That's why I used the titles of his books for my one example - they are common knowledge, and there shouldn't have been any argument that those two titles fit my thesis: insulting of opponents, and from the left.
quote:
ORIGINAL: domiguy
He doesn't attack women who have lost their husbands ...
The women in question opened themselves up to political debate and questioning by entering the political debate.
The "left" defends them for the simple fact that they support the "left's" agenda. Attempting to defuse criticism of them because "they lost their husbands" is an attempt to silence those criticism, nothing more.
quote:
ORIGINAL: domiguy
He would never call some student at a speaking engagement "gay" if they didn't follow his beliefs.
Maybe not. He ... and other "lefty" comedians use other insults, depending on their point of view and beliefs. But an insult is an insult, isn't it?
quote:
ORIGINAL: domiguy
But it would be nice, once again, if you could find quotes that express the same venom in his words that are not directed at those who he opposes (public figures i.e Rush,Coulter,Fox News..etc.)
I'm confused by your actual words here, and am not really interested in reading all of Franken's stuff as I said, but I do have a couple of his books in ebook format, and did a quick glance through ... here is part of "Big Fat Idiot" were he (I think) pretends it is a letter written by Jeanne Kirkpatrick. I'll highlight the insults just in this small portion:
IT REMAINS a mystery why the New York Times would ask me to review this dreadfully foul little book. I am an expert on geopolitical strategic paradigms, not on the sort of cheap, mindless mockery that seems to be Mr. Franken's forte. ... But I have simply been too busy trying to slog through this repugnant collection of vile, unfunny essays.
Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations is not just unfunny. It is confused. While Mr. Franken decries "the loss of civility in public discourse," he himself is a most egregious offender, not just calling Rush Limbaugh "a big fat idiot," but Newt Gingrich "a big fat jerk," and House majority leader Richard Armey "a big dick."
Mr. Franken seems to want to have it both ways, criticizing Limbaugh for "demonizing" those who disagree with him, but all the while attacking his enemies with invective and scurrilous assertions that remain totally unproven. For example, nowhere in the 288-page screed does Franken actually show any real evidence that Limbaugh is indeed fat. There is not one footnoted reference concerning Limbaugh's body weight, and Mr. Franken seems to be relying on sheer guesswork. Indeed, on page 45, he refers to Limbaugh as "a three-hundred pound blimp," while on page 117, he refers to a "size-78 suit squeezing Rush's some six-hundred pound frame like so much sausage casing." Which is it? Three hundred or six hundred?
One begins to wonder if Franken isn't just inventing things out of whole cloth. After a careful reread of The Hell Curve, nowhere in its 800-plus pages did I find Murray and Herrnstein refer to jazz as "the music created by morons." And similarly, Newt Gingrich's Contract with America did not "promise to make it easier to sue for divorce a spouse with cancer."
Occasionally Mr. Franken does succeed to amuse. When discussing the Senate Banking Committee's Whitewater investigation, he writes, "Having Al D'Amato lead an ethics investigation is like asking Bob Dornan to head up a mental health task force." I must admit that one made me chortle; Bob Dornan is dangerously unstable. Yet only thirty-seven pages later Mr. Franken, for all intents and purposes, repeats the joke. "Having Al D'Amato lead an ethics investigation is like asking Ross Perot [my emphasis] to head up a mental health task force." Again, funny. But which is it? Bob Dornan or Ross Perot?
As one labors through Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations one quickly concludes that Mr. Franken chose the title simply as a craven device to attract readers. Yes, the book's opening essay is "Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot" But in it Mr. Franken negates the whole premise of his book, when in referring to Limbaugh's enormous success, he writes: "All right. I guess Limbaugh is not an idiot. But you have to admit, he's big and fat."
In fact, one of the author's goals seems to be to draw Limbaugh into some kind of public feud, as if that would enhance the sales of his book. Calling Limbaugh "a fat bully" who is "too scared to engage in open debate with anyone other than pre-screened callers," Franken gratuitously taunts the talk radio host: "Limbaugh is able to attack women and keep the audience's sympathy for one reason and one reason only. He is clearly a sad, fat loser wounded by a pathetic history with the opposite sex." Again, Franken offers no proof, other than to cite that Limbaugh met his third, and current, wife on CompuServe.
In his book "Lying Liars and the Lies They Tell", I did a quick search, and found a couple of personal attacks on Ann Coulter:
A woman named Coulter cried “Treason.”
She did it without any reason.
Though we know that she lied,
’Twas perhaps justified:
On her brain, I’m afraid, there’s a lesion.
and
So that's how you lie with footnotes. Disgusting, huh? But it's not just you who thinks so. Even people Coulter considers friends say she's "a lying bitch,”1 "a horror show of epic proportions,"2 "oh, the poor thing,"3 and "a bitch."4
1 Me, to my wife
2 Ibid.
3 My wife, to me.
4 We, to another friend.
And, a short summary from a conservative writer:
This is almost understatement for Franken. He often reduces himself to sputtering saliva-flecked insults. Some of this is perhaps intended as humor, but a lot is quite serious. He calls Peggy Noonan "awful," (p. 197) Rupert Murdoch, "evil" (p. 60), and Karl Rove, "human filth." (p. 151) He calls Sean Hannity an "asshole" (at least three times by my unscientific count) (pp. 86, 89); Hannity is also an "Irish ape-man," (p. 85) and "evil" (p. 289). He calls John Ashcroft "something of a nutcase" and a "boob." (p. 160, 161) He calls David Horowitz a "racist." (p. 112) Ari Fleischer is a "chimp." (p. 341) And Franken writes a fictional account of conservative "chickenhawks" serving in Vietnam that is so disgusting it is almost disturbing.
So .... I really don't think you are advancing your cause any by defending Franken. But it's your choice, I guess.
quote:
ORIGINAL: domiguy
Since you may not have read "Lying Liars..." He goes into great detail showing how Coulter has no mindset in reporting the truth..Something I actually think he takes some pride in as he references everything in his book...Which Coulter does not.
Yeah, I suspect that Coulter has messed up a few facts in the search of support of her agenda. I'd also suspect that Al has messed up a few of his facts in support of his agenda as well.
Here. That's a "conservative" site that documents a few. Of course, since it's "conservative" it must be lying ... right? I wouldn't know. I didn't spend much time on it, because it's not telling me anything that I didn't already know in general.
quote:
ORIGINAL: domiguy
ok... I did, was I missing something? I don't see the same crap in his writings...Please provide some examples.
Look up.
quote:
ORIGINAL: domiguy
I know we are on opposite sides of politics and I don't want this to seem like an attack on you...You seem like a nice reasonable fellow...I just don't see any comparison between Franken and Coulter as far as insulting people undeservingly...Maher yes.
Maher, yes. Franken, yes. Lots of "yeses" But ... I notice you sneaking in the "undeservingly". Neat trick there. Who decides who deserves to be insulted?
quote:
ORIGINAL: domiguy
I think political debate is one of the great American past times...But I think it says something about the poster who uses sites like:
Again ... you can be suspicious about sources, but grade them on their facts, not your opinion of their politics.
FirmKY
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