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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Sounds like these are "expectations" that the conservatives are placing on THEMSELVES, WyrdRich.  Republicans don't do a fucking thing to please liberals.  They do whatever they think will garner them more votes.

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ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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Anyone ask Mary Cheney her opinion?

I've wondered her opinion on a lot of things the past six years.

Like being outed to the whole world by a Democrat nominee for President?

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ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Sounds like these are "expectations" that the conservatives are placing on THEMSELVES, WyrdRich.  Republicans don't do a fucking thing to please liberals.  They do whatever they think will garner them more votes.

    Hiya, LaM, haven't seen you around much lately.  Life is good, I hope?

   I bolded the last sentence above.  That statement applies to just about any damn politician in the free world, yet you apply it as if it were strictly a Republican flaw.  Yet another double standard?

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ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Like being outed to the whole world by a Democrat nominee for President?

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ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

Friends describe Cheney as extremely close to her father and fiercely loyal to the family. She takes frequent hunting and fishing trips with him; they recently returned from an excursion to South America
 
Wonder if she still hunts with dad..

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ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Yep.  You're right Stef, it was in public domain.  Kerry didn't out her.  He was just the guy from the party of tolerance and diversity who brought up her orientation for the national media to play with.

My bad.

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Christ Almighty, WyrdRich, take a cup of tea or something.  Earl Grey.  Or maybe do the "tree" position for twenty seconds.

If a proposition is true of all politicians, then surely it's true of the sub-class of Republican politicians?

QED.

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ORIGINAL: stef

I've got to admit, you sure appear to be an expert at wielding those double standards.

~stef

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ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Once upon a time, I was a liberal.

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Here's another double standard.  I can talk about my family all day long.  That doesn't mean everybody else gets too.

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ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

If I remember correctly. The problem was that Kerry brought the issue up about a child of the candidate. It was supposed to influence Christian conservatives. It tended to backfire on Mr Kerry.

It does have ramifications on the upcoming races though..
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/16846657.htm

quote:


SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, let's get back to economic issues. But let's shift to some other questions here.

Both of you are opposed to gay marriage. But to understand how you have come to that conclusion, I want to ask you a more basic question.

Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?

BUSH: You know, Bob, I don't know. I just don't know. I do know that we have a choice to make in America and that is to treat people with tolerance and respect and dignity. It's important that we do that.

And I also know in a free society people, consenting adults can live the way they want to live.

And that's to be honored.

But as we respect someone's rights, and as we profess tolerance, we shouldn't change -- or have to change -- our basic views on the sanctity of marriage.

I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I think it's very important that we protect marriage as an institution, between a man and a woman.

I proposed a constitutional amendment. The reason I did so was because I was worried that activist judges are actually defining the definition of marriage, and the surest way to protect marriage between a man and woman is to amend the Constitution.

It has also the benefit of allowing citizens to participate in the process. After all, when you amend the Constitution, state legislatures must participate in the ratification of the Constitution.

I'm deeply concerned that judges are making those decisions and not the citizenry of the United States. You know, Congress passed a law called DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act.

My opponent was against it. It basically protected states from the action of one state to another. It also defined marriage as between a man and woman.

But I'm concerned that that will get overturned. And if it gets overturned, then we'll end up with marriage being defined by courts, and I don't think that's in our nation's interests.

SCHIEFFER: Sen. Kerry?

KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as.

I think if you talk to anybody, it's not choice. I've met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it.

And I've met wives who are supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were, who they felt God had made them.

I think we have to respect that.

The president and I share the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. I believe that. I believe marriage is between a man and a woman.

But I also believe that because we are the United States of America, we're a country with a great, unbelievable Constitution, with rights that we afford people, that you can't discriminate in the workplace. You can't discriminate in the rights that you afford people.

You can't disallow someone the right to visit their partner in a hospital. You have to allow people to transfer property, which is why I'm for partnership rights and so forth.

Now, with respect to DOMA and the marriage laws, the states have always been able to manage those laws. And they're proving today, every state, that they can manage them adequately.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Welllll ... DomKen ...

You've made my list of unreliable sources, and lost any credibility you had in the past with me.

I'll address your last sentence first:

I don't think you have the ability to "hammer" me on much of anything, I'm afraid.  But, since you are obviously wanting me to be some kind of trash-talking right-wing nut, feel free to trot out your favorite hatred and conspiracy, and I'll be more than happy to make you look like what you are.

Your "sources" in particular, I find telling.

Sources

---

Wikipedia Article

---

The first one, a Wikipedia source that is suspicious as hell, and my conclusion is that you yourself or a buddy or another partisan hack has rigged it (and you list "computer expert" on your profile!).    Wiki is good for a lot of stuff, but they have constant problems with BDS people such as yourself constantly going in and changing things, so that current events relating to Bush, Republicans and anything conservative is constantly being hijacked.

quote:

Exactly like this one has been hijacked.  It's total bullshit (this particular article has been "edited" over 500 times since 2005 - tell ya anything?). 

An article on GWH Bush, as President ... with little or no information about his history, or anything else.  Almost the first paragraph is about the so-called "interview" that you are peddling, though. Interesting and telling.

If you didn't hijack the article and you aren't a hypocrite - then you're just gullible.

quote:

---

Positive Atheism website

---

The second source? 

Well, here we get a little more information.  Turns out that your "reporter" was an acredited reporter for the American Atheist news journal, and your cite is an atheist site, and the specific article was written by Madalyn O'Hair (who was murdered in 1995, btw).

The "incident" happened in ... get this?  1987.

quote:

It's being reported on from a partisan source (nothing wrong with that, per se, as I have discussed), but you've also not provided any non-partisan source of the comments.

I'd think that it would still be an item of interest to the main stream media, considering the "right wing religious mania" that many have about the Bush family.  So ... why no other source?

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Another problem is that the link you give ... is a blind link.  The site (http://www.positiveatheism.org) doesn't have a home page.  At least not when I tried it several times. 

The site is registered to Positive Atheism Magazine in Portland OR.  I hope that's not your name the whois provides as the registering individual (even though it's public information, I'll not provide it here).

So ... how'd you get a blind link to an article on a defunct site that starts out with exactly the stuff you are trying to peddle?

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Truthfully, sounds like a smear job, and only people who are blinded in the atheistic hatred for Bush give it any creditability.

Of course, my opinion is subject to change, if you can actually provide anything at least approaching an actual reliable source.

quote:

Can you? 

---

My Source - The Reporter himself.

---

No.  You can't.  You know why?  'Cause I went and did a 10 second google search myself on the subject, and found the "reporters" own site, and his comments of the subject.  Let me quote you Mr. Rob Sherman himself:

 All of the star reporters from the Chicago political press corps were there, along with members of the White House press corps (those who regularly cover the President and Vice President) and other national news reporters, but no other reporter did anything with the story about Mr. Bush's anti-atheist comments.

...

Beginning a few years after my story was published [only in American Atheist Magazine, apparently - ed] , some atheists and other concerned citizens began to ask for proof that the conversation between Mr. Bush and myself actually took place, and that Mr. Bush actually said what he said.  I had nothing but my spotless reputation to go on, but that's not enough for many who don't know me.  Being that I was a print journalist, I had no need for a tape.  All I needed to do was to take accurate notes and report the story in writing.

      Urban legend has it that I supposedly made some kind of tape, but that I refuse to release it.  The fact of the matter is that I never made a tape.  Anybody who really knows me would know that, if I had made a tape, I not only would make it available, I would put it up on this web site so that you could listen to it.  However, the reality is that I never made a tape.

      A related question that comes up is:  What about the tapes made by all the television and radio stations?  Why can't I get it from them?  The answer is that broadcasters save only that portion of their tapes that are broadcast over the air.  After that, tapes are erased and re-used.

      With regards to the story about Mr. Bush's anti-atheist comments, broadcasters already had three big stories out of the news conference:  The Vice President of the United States had come to Chicago; the federal government was to provide us with disaster relief; and the Vice President talked about how he was going to win the Republican nomination for President.  There was other news that day that newscasts had to cover, so three stories out of the news conference was deemed enough.  The story about Bush's anti-atheist comments simply did not make the cut.  That happens in broadcast news.  They take the biggest stories and go with them.

So ... let me sum it up .... no other media outlet reported the story.  There is no video or audio tapes of the event, no other reporter will verify the story (despite there being a lot of high powered reporters), and three other major stories came out of the event, so it should have been a memorable time.

But nobody but the lonely crusading reporter from the American Atheist Magazine heard the slur on atheists.

[pause]

How convenient.

Just maybe ... just maybe ... he had a deadline, a story to write, and an agenda to fufill?

I dunno.  I wasn't there either.  But the propondence of the facts seem weighted against your example, DomKen.

And, oh, btw ... his very webpage that I quoted above has "proof" that Bush did say it!  But ... I'd advise you to take it with a huge grain of salt.  It's a flawed "proof" that anyone with half-a-brain (or anyone without an agenda) could drive a Peterbuilt truck through.

But go ahead and try.  Would entertain me in smacking you down.  Again.

FirmKY

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ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

How can you say that it was not Kerry? Unless your claiming Bob channeled Kerry.

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The salient point is that he outed a member of his opponents family ( yes she was open about this in the past, in her community

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, but she was not the candidate ) as a way to try and embarrass Cheney.

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The family's of a candidate have traditionally been off limits.