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RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 5:37:36 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Sexually repressed teenagers with raging hormones who are taught that they will own 13,824 young female virgin slaves if they die while killing non-believers have nothing in common with Tim McVeigh, farglebargle. Besides, there is only one Tim McVeigh for every billion or so suicide bombers, regardless of how many times you say his name...

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Well, except for the fact that as "martyrs" any Muslim extremists who had nuked us would expect that, after we nuked them back, they would each recieve twenty four mansions, and in each mansion there would be twenty four rooms, and in each room would be twenty four virgins...



Tim McViegh didn't have any promises like that, but he still completed the mission.

It's all about the training, and you don't need to be a Muslim to be trained properly.






< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/6/2007 6:06:18 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 7:21:55 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

Sexually repressed teenagers with raging hormones who are taught that they will own 13,824 young female virgin slaves if they die while killing non-believers have nothing in common with Tim McVeigh,


They're both Terrorists. And we haven't had ANY of the former, while we HAVE had three of the latter. ( Did you forget Eric Robert Rudolph? I guess the Unibomer's a Terrorist also. What was his name? Ted Kazynski?)

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/6/2007 7:22:43 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 8:24:13 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Try again - say it with me: "9/11 hijackers"

You're not really that forgetful, are you farglebargle?

And again, the big difference is, Iran (who wants a nuclear bomb) has SUICIDE bombers. Okay? Organized by regiments. How many nuclear bombs do those whackjobs really need...

America was the first to develop the bomb and had we been like any of our enemies we would have used it to literally take over the world - another big difference. We ARE the good guys, and I don't care what extremes you're willing to go to in order to obfuscate that fact. We've signed treaties, they've signed treaties. So we're upgrading our arsenal. NO BIG DEAL, it's routine. I can't believe people would try to use that to say we're no different than wild-eyed fanatics from some wahabi somewhere, that kind of thinking is just pure insanity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

...we haven't had ANY of the former, while we HAVE had three of the latter.


< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/6/2007 8:27:08 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 9:02:35 AM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
Just to re-focus, my issue is with how we justify telling others what to do when we do not do the same thing.

I have a basic problem with a double standard that we hold others accountable while we basically go unchecked. Who watches the watchers?


Not to justify it, only to understand it ...
 
If you study history very closely, you rapidly come to the conclusion that powereful nations stay powerful, when they write rules, enforce them on other people, but choose to break them themselves. Sad but true ... most of the time, when powerful nations start holding themselves to the standards they hold other to, they have signed their own death warrent. Playing fair and malevolent leadership, has more often made a power look weak to her enemies, rather than respected by her friends. In our case, our supposed friends are few and highly fickle.
 
Question back to you ... forget about right, wrong and fairness, since the world has never really been any of these things. Ask yourself the question from the standpoint of practicality. We build these 2,000 modern warheads to replace 6,000 older ones, and everyone raises a stink. Does that really matter, in the long term? What real result will this bring?
 
I think if you look at this honestly, you will say "no" and "none."


I will answer a question with a question: If it will make no difference or have no result, why do it at all?

Let me elaborate just a bit so you can understand my logic. I am not a firearms expert so my numbers may well be off but just bear with me for illustration purposes. If you have a gang and they are armed with 6,000 9mm semi-automatic pistols that fire 12 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger and you take away 4,000 of them and replace the remaining 2,000 with a 9mm machine pistol that can fire 200 rounds per minute or the equivalent of the full 6,000 9mm pistols, what have you lost/gained?

Answer: You have gained/lost nothing.

Reducing numbers and keeping the same warhead count means nothing. If you are committed to disarmament then reduce your nukes and the warhead count to show that you are interested in reducing the threat of nuclear war.

I reiterate the statement that if we currently can kill everyone on the planet 10,000 times over, and reduce that number to 7,000 times over it is still overkill no matter how you look at it, but from a political standpoint it is a showing of good faith to arms reduction.

This proposal to replace these warheads could not have come at a worse time. Mechanically it may make sense but politically it is sending the wrong message when we are telling others not to develop their own nuclear programs.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 9:22:29 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Question back to you ... forget about right, wrong and fairness, since the world has never really been any of these things. Ask yourself the question from the standpoint of practicality. We build these 2,000 modern warheads to replace 6,000 older ones, and everyone raises a stink. Does that really matter, in the long term? What real result will this bring?
 
I think if you look at this honestly, you will say "no" and "none."


When Russia and China modernises its nuclear arsenal in response, watch the USA kick up a stink and accuse them of being aggressive. This was precisely what the USA did in the Cuban missile crisis which was a Soviet response to the USA siting nukes in Turkey. The USA is already questioning the good faith of China who is moderinizing its military, even though China spends less than 10% on its military compared to the USA. It is strange that Americans think it is normal for them to be armed to the teeth but somehow it is aggressive and placing the USA in danger when other countries arms themselves in fear of an aggressive USA.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 10:03:46 AM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Try again - say it with me: "9/11 hijackers"


They were pros, who weren't ignorant fools motivated by promises of virgins.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 10:04:52 AM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

How many nuclear bombs do those whackjobs really need...


As a Sovereign Nation, as many as they want.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 10:29:24 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		How well do you know these guys, farglebargle?

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Try again - say it with me: "9/11 hijackers"


They were pros, who weren't ignorant fools motivated by promises of virgins.



< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/6/2007 10:32:27 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 10:31:59 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		One other difference between Muslim terrorists and the three examples you can find of so-called "home grown terrorists" is that Muslim terrorists want to cause as much destruction as possible, and the more civilian carnage the better. The "home grown" type targets specific people and buildings.

So how many nukes do you want the Muslim terrorists to have again

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

How many nuclear bombs do those whackjobs really need...


As a Sovereign Nation, as many as they want.



(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 10:33:52 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		How many nukes do you want the Chinese Communists to tell you that you can have?

If you're willing to trash the Sovereignty of Iran, then get ready to sacrifice the Sovereignty of the United States.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 10:36:09 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

How well do you know these guys, farglebargle?



Only that they made the combined defenses of the United States look like the freaking 3 stooges. And to pull that off, you can't be a loony fanatic.

Well, the US telling airline passengers to cooperate with hijackers helped.

Dumbest Advice Ever.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 10:38:18 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		The Chinese don't have anything to do with this - they want to live, just like we do.

MUSLIM terrorists want to die. You want them to have nukes, that's fine. We'll just have to disagree then... you say give them the bomb. I say, they want it? Then let them have it...

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

How many nukes do you want the Chinese Communists to tell you that you can have?

If you're willing to trash the Sovereignty of Iran, then get ready to sacrifice the Sovereignty of the United States.



(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 10:45:06 AM   
ferryman777


Posts: 198
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		In the words of the late great communicator......"I'm the president, so, what are you going to do about it." 
Bush attained his office by usurpation; a suspisious at best, Florida recount, ...govenor being his brother.
The US can and will do anything it pleases, irregarless of some so called fairness, or what 'messages' are being sent. How to pay for this 'imperialism'...raise taxes. But...that will be the forthcoming elected democratic president's problem.
And what you or anyone thinks about it all, does not matter; in fact, you do not matter, the people do not matter. What anyone thinks is of no absolute importance whatsoever.
Has anyone noticed, the US supports China, giving almost all of it's industry to China, the US auto industry is now based in China......correct me if I'm wrong; but isn't China a communist nation and government.
The US fights communism all over the world, where ever it rears it's ugly head.....except China, where, now the US embraces China. Is communism okay now?
War is good, so long as you are not effected. Nuclear bombs are good, so long as you are not breaking out in blisters the size of an elepant and glowing a strange green lite.
It all makes MONEY. But, we will not see any of it.
If you can't eat it, or make money with it...Fuck it.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 10:46:27 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Actually, I don't say "Give them the bomb". I say "Respect the Sovereignty of Sovereign Nations".

That way the Sovereignty of the United States will be respected too.

Since we're not Iranians, we don't get a voice in the INTERNAL affairs of Iran.

If you think it's OK for USAsians to get involved in the Internal Affairs of Iran, why shouldn't China get involved in the Internal Affairs of the USA?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 10:53:13 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		So you admit then that you have no idea what motivated them, and that you were merely guessing before?

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
How well do you know these guys, farglebargle?


Only that they made the combined defenses of the United States look like the freaking 3 stooges. And to pull that off, you can't be a loony fanatic.

Well, the US telling airline passengers to cooperate with hijackers helped.

Dumbest Advice Ever.



(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 10:56:08 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		They would if they could, farglebargle. This isn't some game after all, is it. You make a mistake here and the consequences are severe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
If you think it's OK for USAsians to get involved in the Internal Affairs of Iran, why shouldn't China get involved in the Internal Affairs of the USA?



(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 10:59:03 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		You think that if we only close our eyes and bare our throats to them then they will leave us in peace.

Since the time of Muhummad himself they have been slicing every throat that has presented itself.

What makes you think that this time, things will be any different?

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Actually, I don't say "Give them the bomb". I say "Respect the Sovereignty of Sovereign Nations".

That way the Sovereignty of the United States will be respected too.

Since we're not Iranians, we don't get a voice in the INTERNAL affairs of Iran.

If you think it's OK for USAsians to get involved in the Internal Affairs of Iran, why shouldn't China get involved in the Internal Affairs of the USA?



(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 11:02:32 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Did you read that somewhere?  I mean it sounds cool but is swiss cheese for logic and reality.

Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 11:08:56 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

So you admit then that you have no idea what motivated them, and that you were merely guessing before?


It's an educated guess, and given the evidence, more likely than not. Considering the professionalism of the attack, they were certainly not, as it's been put, "Sexually repressed teenagers with raging hormones who are taught that they will own 13,824 young female virgin slaves if they die while killing non-believers"


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: New Warheads: America the hypocrites - 3/6/2007 11:13:53 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

They would if they could, farglebargle. This isn't some game after all, is it. You make a mistake here and the consequences are severe.



So, if I'm reading this right, you agree that China would interfere with the US's internal affairs if they could.

And you agree it's a BAD THING for China to get involved in US Internal affairs.

But you don't think it's a BAD THING for the US to get involved in Iranian Internal affairs?

If so, why the double standard? NOT OK for China w.r.t. the US, but it's OK for The US w.r.t Iran?

Are you saying "The Ends Justify The Means", or what?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 100
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