quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

It s also known as musical collars.

quote:

ORIGINAL: azzmaster

well OP, as u see its the era of yuppie watered down BDSM...and a hell of alot of smart assed unsubish subs who know everything....LMAO... and u wonder y he didn't keep posting? he wasn't trying to defend his postition. he knows what his position is. and he said it was just a comment. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: ancientseawolfe

Don't Masters have limits?? Wouldn't it be correct for a potential slave to find out if the potential Master's limits were in consonance?
The slave eventually wants to rely on the Master's limits, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: azzmaster

sadly... BDSM if watered down just becomes vanilla with sprinkles

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Ideally this would be great.

I think more realistically you find somone who has all your really important or hard limits or you learn and change over time.

As usual, I'm basing this on my experiences.

When I started to train Fox one of his hard limits was knife play.

One of my favorite activities is knife play.

It didn't matter because when I train it's a trial and a teaching experience, I don't train with the ultimate plan to own, I train to others learn and I train to give us a chance to see if something might be there for us together. I didn't need to do knife play with him to help him explore and help us get to know each other.

There came a time during training when he went to get some toys (a good exercise for the mind) and came back with only one: one of my knives. He knelt down and said "I am very afraid, Milady, but I trust you this much and I want to try." Having learned the hard way to not take what a submissive says in scene very seriously if it does not mesh with his out of scene limits list, I ended the training session and we talked. We did not continue the session that evening.

The next time we had a session he went to get the knife and remade his statement. He'd had a week to think and it was now at the beginning of the scene. So I used my knife on him and I was very conscious of what we did every second at even a greater level than I am normally.

He shook, he cried, we finished. Then he remembered why he had this hard limit and he told me with shaky voice about being raped when he was 15.

I would not have owned Fox had he had this limit but I never told him that, he either just knew it or he wanted to continue to challenge that memory by engaging in it. I do not think he would do knife play with anyone else.

I consider a great sign of trust that we do it and it is one of the reasons I decided to own him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine

It's not a discussion when people are insulting others for their opinions or ways. Which I see is running a little rampant from a lot of people in this thread.

I'd say it's more of a pissing match at the moment, rather than a level-headed discussion.

*edited because the caffeine has not yet reached my fingers*

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine

It's not a discussion when people are insulting others for their opinions or ways. Which I see is running a little rampant from a lot of people in this thread.

I'd say it's more of a pissing match at the moment, rather than a level-headed discussion.

*edited because the caffeine has not yet reached my fingers*

I agree, Aine...and that was probably the intent in the first place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

I'm always amazed at how often this subject comes up. Many people believe that a slave should have only those rights granted to him/her by their owner -or more to the point none at all. If we are talking involuntary slavery, then that would be the case. But in my opinion, when we are talking voluntary slavery, which is the only form of M/s I am interested in, I recognize the rights of the person who makes up the slave. Plain and simple. So, yes, slaves have rights.

MNN

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

I'm always amazed at how often this subject comes up. Many people believe that a slave should have only those rights granted to him/her by their owner -or more to the point none at all. If we are talking involuntary slavery, then that would be the case. But in my opinion, when we are talking voluntary slavery, which is the only form of M/s I am interested in, I recognize the rights of the person who makes up the slave. Plain and simple. So, yes, slaves have rights.

MNN

It is amazing. When I started out on this journey, I read Devon and Miller and Wiseman and Graeme and Warren and Rice, et. al and asked questions and participated in munches and talked and talked and talked to bunches of folks. I've done emailings back and forth with folks ranging from various Gorean Masters and kajira to bedroom only BDSM participants. I've listened to others and wrapped my own thoughts and experiences around that of others and here is what I have come down to...

I have a basic definition of submissive and dominant and slave in my head. I have a basic definition of Total Power Exchange and Partial Power Exchange. These definitions which are based on what I have read and what I have learned and which are colored more by people like Warren and Devon and Miller and Wiseman than they are by Norman and Rice ... are still only my definitions and are only important when I am speaking with someone and they ask me to clarify my viewpoint. I can put them out here and I can ask for input and yeah, every once in awhile, I will disagree with someone. As an example, I happen to think that to state that you are a TPE slave on your profile is a bit misleading. As someone else noted, no one starts out that way. You might start out submitting at a basic level and as trust builds, more and more power is exchanged. How long that takes is entirely up to you and the one you are partnered up with. To state that you wish to find a partner that you can let go of your limits with more and more as a Partial Power Exchange becomes Total and as submissive moves toward slavery could be a more honest way of putting it. If I want to be a dominant that has a 24/7 D/s relationship with a submissive that does not need/want micromanagement and I am O.K. with the fact that she does not wish to relinquish control of her children to me, but has no problem with turning over her finances and/or her schedule and/or her sexuality, and on and on, then I would describe our relationship as a D/s relationship, 24/7, with Partial Power Exchange. I suppose Total Power Exchange...at least as defined by the big poobahs in BDSM/D/s (and no, I do not mean that in an insulting fashion)...is possible but I would think it is rare.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I think you're enslaved when your head is so occupied by someone else that you don't even have the inclination to focus on what you wouldn't do for them, but rather the need to beg for the opportunity to do something you hate just for the priviledge to serve that person.  It's in that state of mind that the "sub vs slave vs bottom vs whathaveyou" debate becomes completely inapplicable.