LadyEllen
Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
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If one wanted a scientific explanation for occult beliefs and actions based upon them, then one would after a lengthy discussion come to the conclusion that they are neither more nor less rational than any religious belief, or indeed any popularly demonstrated societal value. This is because the occult, religion, value systems et al, all take place in the mind, and there is only one way to distinguish between good and bad - and that is by way of the effects these elements of the mind affect the individual and the society. If one continued a scientific explanation, becoming more and more pure in approach then ultimately we come to the situation where the observing scientist, being made up of and functioning with the same nuclear reactions between the atoms from which he consists, is no more right or wrong than the most "primitive" tribal shaman; both of their minds are delusionary constructs arising from nuclear reactions, and no delusion can lead to any firm position.
The thrust of this thread as I see it, is the distinction between engaging in the occult (or for that matter in anything) with a healthy mind, and engaging with an unhealthy mind. That countless people practice the occult with no ill effects to themselves or others indicates that the occult itself is not dangerous, even if we were to contend that it is ineffective. That a minority, and particularly those who dabble do suffer harm to themselves, indicates that some other function is entering in to make that difference for them. The difference is, not unsurprisingly given that the occult takes place in the mind, the mental health of the individual in question. A weak or disturbed mind from the start, will suffer adverse effects when it comes into contact with the occult, whilst a strong and healthy mind will be able to better cope with the results of such contact. This is not only what we see in terms of psychological medicine, but is also the view of those practicing the occult too, where the power of any magician is heavily weighed according to the strength of his mind.
As a mental construct then, the occult is as valid as any other similar construct such as outlined above. Is it effective however? The answer here is that according to science it is not, but of course in terms of the mind it is as effective as any other mental construct. We have all heard I'm sure, the tale of the aborigine who died after being cursed - he was perfectly healthy. The scientific explanation for his death was that his belief was so strong that the curse was effective, that by way of his mind, his body was induced to die. This is no medical surprise, given that one of the more modern approaches to medicice is the holistic, where mind and body and their condition is seen to be linked. So, the occult is certainly mentally effective from the scientific psychological approach, and given the advance of holistic medicine and the example cited, is effective also on the body of the believer - the key in both cases to its efficacy lying in the strength of that belief.
And that is where we link back to the original question regarding idiocy when dealing with the occult. Idiocy in such instances then, amounts to permitting those with weak or disturbed minds to engage in occult practices - a situation which, given that the weak or disturbed mind believes in the efficacy of the occult, will almost always result in adverse effects. Meanwhile, those who believe and have stronger and healthier minds may engage with often benefical effects, whilst those with no belief, whether they have healthy and strong minds or not, will experience little.
The question then remains as to the objective existence of occult phenomena, on which science answers with a resounding no since it finds by its method and practice no means of detecting or measuring it, and on which the occultist would tend to answer conversely, based on experience of real life effects if his practice, effects not only on himself but on others and on situations normally beyond his control. This then brings us to a more interesting question regarding the nature of reality and whether science is fully able to apprehend and describe it, though this is a fruitless endeavour which ends in inevitable trench warfare. More pertinent is, that the nature of reality is determined purely by our individual and collective apprehension and understanding of the world, and that objectivity is not determined by consensus just as it cannot ever be described by subjectively executed philsophy or subjectively constructed and interpreted scientific method.
Clearly, most of us share much of what we would describe as reality, whilst some amongst even this group will have diverse ideas about reality. It is by way of the mind that we distinguish and understand reality, and our understanding is not objective, but rather filtered through the cultural influences which have helped to form our thinking. When we come across the occultist, we could say he is crazy and should be given treatment perhaps, but the distinction between odd thinking and damaging thinking is what actually determines a healthy psychology from a psychopathology, not whether we agree with someone's strange ideas. That the occultist experiences occult phenomena and acts upon those experiences is not evidence of madness, but of a different perception of the world, which if it is to be judged insanity must also result in the same descriptor being applied to anyone and everyone who expresses ideas outside the mainstream. This is the kind of dangerous methodology which leads not only to the likes of witch hunts, but also to the likes of the holocaust, and it must be rejected wholeheartedly by any person with a healthy mind wherewith to think.
The occultist who claims real life effects of his practice which result in changes outside of his own mind and body, we can judge from a scientific basis as perhaps being guilty of deluded ideas regarding the causality of outcomes which would have come to pass with or without his intervention. However, the real life experience of this occultist says differently and has said differently on enough occasions that the outcomes achieved by way of my practice, and the resumption of the earlier situations when that practice was ceased, that a more mysterious agency must be present which though inexplicable by science perhaps, is nonetheless efficacious.
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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.
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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 
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I was trying to use this as an umbrella term which I think can apply in a more broader aspect. My sole intention was to express how this is also applicable in a wider range and not get into semantics. I do realize that the term "occult" is mainly used in reference to witchcraft and such. I wasn't trying to prove anyone wrong, just expressing my thoughts and beliefs that makes sense to me!
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