Subs who play with safewords (Full Version)

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domwolfe71 -> Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 8:49:00 AM)

It's something that's been tugging at my mind for some time now. Perhaps some of you have experienced the same thing. There was a time long ago when I had a submissive who was very close to my heart. We partook of the lifestyle often and well. As we grew closer, she did something that just really jacked up my wiring. She used a safeword, apparently to just escape a punishment. I considered it a dreadful misuse of the safeword, but as I'd given my word to always obey it, here I was bound to stop. This did happen several other times until the ability to establish and maintain any kind of discipline was lost.

Have any of you had to deal with this type of situation? What did you do to remedy such a thing? If you're a SSC-respecting normal person, You're going to of course stop whenever its uttered, but what do you do when it's used frivolously. It's like the boy who cried wolf without the object lesson at the end.



Bearlee -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 8:59:28 AM)

Dang... used a safeword to get out of punishment?  ...or used a safeword to let you know what the punishment consisted of was out of bounds or more than she could handle?
 
Were I a Dominant and my submissive used a safeword, I'd stop what I was doing THEN...talk some...and continue with the punishment after some adjustments (perhaps) were made.
 
I remember freaking out on a cross (I'd been made to pass-out on a cross in a full, leather mask) after a 'surprise' bout of breathplay and thought I was going to puke.  He took me down, removed the hood and held my hair out of my face while I composed myself and calmed down...but marched me right back to the cross and continued with his floggers and whips.  Okay, no more breathplay for me...but HE was still in control of the situation!
 
I don't 'grock' safewords to get out of punishment.
 
bearlee



AquaticSub -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 9:08:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

Dang... used a safeword to get out of punishment?  ...or used a safeword to let you know what the punishment consisted of was out of bounds or more than she could handle?

 
That's exactly what I was thinking.

We can't always take everything dished out. This is one of the reasons Valyraen prefers to use non-physical punishments for me, such as standing in a corner or diagraming sentences.
 
Did you talk to her afterwards to find out why she safeworded and try to avoid it? Was there a particular aspect of the punishment? Was it something new that she didn't know she couldn't handle or had you done this in the past successfully?



toservez -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 9:11:57 AM)

I am going to take what you wrote as face value and your punishments were nowhere close to pushing limits or any other level within herself that made it justify using her safeword but was in fact just a way to get out of something.

Though it also sounds like this was more of a top/bottom situation that you were maybe trying to go to a more D/s relationship and maybe that was just not for her and her using a safeword was just escaping that dynamic which she was not interested in and not being open about it.

If the punishments are reasonable and safe then a submissive using safeword to get out of them sounds like they are just not serious or committed to that type of relationship worse case or do not understand it. Communication would have to be in order and reasons and answers by case by case scenario.



juliaoceania -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 9:12:14 AM)

I am a submissive, my Daddy does not use corporal punishment, it would make little sense to use a safeword to get out of discipline because I am not disciplined physically. I would ask if these were physical punishments? Perhaps they were past her endurance? If so I would not think this was an improper use of a safeword.... I mean we only have what you have told us, perhaps you exceeded her pain threshold to the point it was unbearable? She has a safeword to protect herself, perhaps she felt she needed protecting.

Like I said, I am not physically punished and it would make little sense for me to call colors because I want to go on the internet or I did not want to write an essay. I mean there are all sorts of nonphysical forms of discipline out there for a sub that cannot or will not endure physical pain. If a submissive refused to be disciplined in any way, shape, or form, and used a safeword as a mechanism to control the dynamic, if I were a dom I would think that she wasn't into being my submissive anymore.

Not all submissives need physical punishment in order to maintain their discipline, some do, but not all of us.




BeachMystress -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 9:14:12 AM)

When a sub starts pulling this, it is time to have a long talk with them. It can be a sign of the sub needing more guidance or emotional support or that something has caused them to lose respect for the Dominant. Something is wrong with the dynamic and needs to be addressed. In any case, you can not allow them to get away with manipulation. Call them on it or you will lose the position of power. They need to know that you are aware of what they are doing. If they still feel that they are well within their rights to use the safeword as manipulation, it is time to release them. If you aren't sure your sub is safewording as manipulation, start requiring a written explanation of every time they use it. It isn't a punishment, but rather a learning tool for the both of you.

While the sub does have the control of safeword, you have the control of finding another sub. If love was involved, I'd offer to maintain a relationship with the person and let them know I'd be getting my D/s needs met elsewhere. If they refused, I would regretfully let go of them.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 9:21:41 AM)

The issue has nothing to do with a safeword and everything to do with her violating the expectations of the relationship and gross manipulation. (As well, assuming that this was due to her manipulation and not actual perception that this was something the needed to stop)



MagiksSlave -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 9:23:54 AM)

Hmmm for me I was always told that safe words where used during play only and could not be used during punishment.. doesnt make sence (though I understand if the punishment is going way over board there has to be a way for the sub to let you know but then you used the color systom the punishment doesnt stop you just know where the subs head is and thaat you may be going to hard and can adjust) Me and Master no longer use a safe word but when we did if I ever used it to get out of punishment and not because what he was doing I was really really not able to take even as punishment Id get punished for that.. Id never dare do that because well it breaks trust to me its kinda like lieing!!

Magik's slave



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 11:24:11 AM)

The easilist way is to not give punishments that can be stopped by safewords. This usually means that you need to find mental discipline items rather than SM discipline. If you insist on discipline, give them out in sets..like set of 3 cane stripes...and no safeword. If they don't trust you to not harm them during punishment they probably shouldn't be in the relationship with you OR the two of you have more talking and negotiating to do.

Master Fire



bayboundse -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 12:19:49 PM)

From what you wrote you and your sub have an SM based punishment system in place with safewords. Nothing wrong with that in general. Whats wrong is the subs use of a safeword during a punishment that you as the Dom think was not bad enough to be called on.
You two need to talk about it. See if she just can not take that much pain. People change also, she may not be able to stand the pain she has in the past.
If she did "Cry Wolf" I would let her know she has crossed a line and should not cross it agian. If it continues I would talk with her and let her know that you will not continue in a BDSM style relationship with her.



MissyRane -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 2:14:49 PM)

Playing with safewords is the same as having no safeword. In my opinion so the person would need to be taught to take them seriously.



hisannabelle -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 2:47:42 PM)

i'd take a long time to talk about it with her.

i've never actually used my safeword. i've had him stop because he thought i should be using it. there've also been times where i've seriously considered using it because he was pushing me to answer questions or to talk about things i was so psychologically mixed up over i simply couldn't get the words out of my mouth. however, at the same time, i recognize that it's also my responsibility to try to fix that...so i've not actually used safewords in those situations, but tried to communicate in other ways, or at least communicate that there was a problem.

seriously, i think that it's necessary just to stop and talk about it. if she's using it frivolously and lying about it, that bespeaks of a bigger problem in the relationship than just needing to take away her safeword or punishing her for using it frivolously. if she's honest about using it frivolously, then letting her know you're disappointed will probably be enough punishment. and if she actually needed to use it because the punishment wasn't what she could handle at that moment, then it might seem frivolous to you, but it's probably not.



IrishMist -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 4:12:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domwolfe71

It's something that's been tugging at my mind for some time now. Perhaps some of you have experienced the same thing. There was a time long ago when I had a submissive who was very close to my heart. We partook of the lifestyle often and well. As we grew closer, she did something that just really jacked up my wiring. She used a safeword, apparently to just escape a punishment. I considered it a dreadful misuse of the safeword, but as I'd given my word to always obey it, here I was bound to stop. This did happen several other times until the ability to establish and maintain any kind of discipline was lost.

Have any of you had to deal with this type of situation? What did you do to remedy such a thing? If you're a SSC-respecting normal person, You're going to of course stop whenever its uttered, but what do you do when it's used frivolously. It's like the boy who cried wolf without the object lesson at the end.

If I was in your shoes; I would end the relationship. Obviously she has no respect for it.



Suleiman -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 4:38:00 PM)

Oooh. Tough one. Hasn't happened to me, but that's not the relationship my wife and I have, and everyone else has been short-term. I'd have to say, if this sort of thing starts happening, it's time for YOU to use YOUR safeword, and seriously re-negotiate the boundaries of the relationship. (Yes, tops get safewords too, dang it!)

The way I was brought up, use of the safeword was tantamount to crying 'Rape'. It was more than just an objection to the activity, it was absolute withholding of consent. By my way of thinking, if a safework comes out, something is very, very wrong - and if they don't need to go to the hospital or are about to have a nervous breakdown because of some buried emotional landmine that's only just gotten unrepressed, I, personally, would be prone to becoming incredibly pissed off, and wold seriously be considering whether I want to stay in a relationship with this person.

Then again, that's just me, and I can be an incredible jerk some times.



Mariposa -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 5:06:38 PM)

In my relationships using a safeword just means "we need to talk out of role." Questioning whether you consent to an action, or even withdrawing consent, is not tantamount to "crying rape."



DiurnalVampire -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 5:13:58 PM)

Using a safeword to get out of a punishment once out of fear can almost be excused. Almost, though it would stil have gottena good talking to right off, and an explination of the use of the safe word.  It is not a get out of jail free card, it is a way to express when a limit has been reached DURING an activity. Your girl obviously couldnt understand that her safe word didnt mean she was now in control. Personally, I would have removed the safe word, and told her that if she could not use it properly, than she obviously had no need for it. Much like any other toy, which was what she was treating it as, when it is overused it is taken away. 
Her using a safe word duringa punishment sjhe just didnt want meant she had either no trust in your ablity to control, or no interest in allowing you to.  Either way, Id say she was a ost cause and start looking for someone else. 
This is why I dont use safe words.  I demand that my boy talks to me, even if it is in scene.  If there is something that he wants stopped, I ask why. I will stop until he answers, and depending on the answer, I wil either stop completely or modify. It has worked very wel for us, and for me with others.

DV



yugla -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 7:23:22 PM)

Perhaps the play and discipline was, in her mind, leading her some place that she was fearful of going. Reading the replies there seems to be a lot of supposing - in my mind as well. The agreed idea though is to communicate to understand what and why.

Be Well

PS You could employ a ball gag and tell her the new safe word is to spell chrysanthemin and not let her read this forum post.



IrishMist -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 8:13:33 PM)

quote:

PS You could employ a ball gag and tell her the new safe word is to spell chrysanthemin and not let her read this forum post.

LMAO

there you go [8D]



SimplySubmissive -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/12/2007 9:12:31 PM)

I have never safeworded out of a punishment, and god knows those were always the worst, most painful kinds of interaction.
I did trust that he knew me well enough to know when too much was too much, when to slow a bit, etc.
it all comes down to trust.
safewording out of a punishment would feel just wrong to me.



Focus50 -> RE: Subs who play with safewords (3/13/2007 3:24:11 AM)

This isn't about legitimate use of a safeword; it's about who has control in your relationship - and clearly you don't!
 
When a sub safewords, it's my experience that it's usually a last resort and generally they're upset over having done so because they've rationalised it as a failure....  Sounds like your sub is merely substituting safeword for "NO!"
 
And that's most likely *YOUR* fault!  While it's true a sub is expected to submit to the Dom's control, it tends to work smoother when the Dom also carries his share of the load and actively dominates the sub, too!  She's telling you "No" - what tha hell are you gonna do about it????? 
 
I'm betting she'll stop taking charge of your relationship once you show you're ready to over.  Batter up!!!
 
Focus.



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