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where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 1:27:00 PM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline 		as my friend, Colbert puts it, at least if there was a draft, people would finally get off their lazy asses and protest the war! [paraphrased, of course]

where is the outrage to this empire? the violation of civil liberties left and right, the violation of rights, and choice? Where are the people opposed to the facist road this country is taking??


Damn you generation X, you lazy stoned assholes. our parents in their hay day would have never let this happen, but their getting old. Why arent the young kids standing up and protesting?

why is protesting suddenly viewed as useless and ineffective?

i am ashamed of my peers and their laziness.

< Message edited by mixielicous -- 3/12/2007 1:28:18 PM >

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 2:50:49 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		i'm outraged.

but what the fuck am i supposed to do about it? protest? people have protested until they're blue in the face. nothing's happened. refuse to go to work and school and live my daily life? can't pay my bills. move to another country? can't afford it, and in some ways i think that's a cop out. what do you expect me to do about it? seriously. give me ideas, i'll be happy to try anything.

protesting is suddenly viewed as useless and ineffective becasue in this day and age it IS useless and ineffective. maybe 40 years ago the government actually gave a damn. now they've repeatedly shown that they don't - and banned protesting in certain situations.


< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 3/12/2007 2:51:43 PM >

(in reply to mixielicous)
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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 2:56:40 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Casualties aren't that high.
 
There is no draft.
 
Our opponents are even worse at the PR game, than we are.
 
The media, on both sides of the issue, spins so wrecklessly so as to be laughable.

(in reply to mixielicous)
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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 2:59:18 PM   
Sternhand4


Posts: 422
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Good news..
Today Microsoft and EA sports have announced...
VIRTUAL PROTEST 2007
AVAILIBLE ON XBOX AND PS3
 
If they don't have to leave the couch maybe you can get them interested.. lol
 
 

(in reply to hisannabelle)
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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 3:21:37 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		the funny thing is, i don't smoke pot, do other drugs, drink, play video games, etc. i'd venture to say that most of the time i'm not lazy. i work full time (or more) and go to school full time. i've tried political activism...i don't see it working. so i'm trying social activism instead. if somebody can give me a politically active way -i- can work to fix the problem, i'll be happy to try it, and if it works, more power to you. i just haven't seen any yet.

(in reply to Sternhand4)
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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 3:29:00 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Yes, during Vietnam there was a draft and on some days there were hundreds of our Troops killed and many more wounded.
BIG protests! Thousands in Harvard square and on Boston common.
The best way to do things these days is by calling, e-mailing, faxing, and writing a letter to your congressman and two senators.
Most young kids these days don't even know who their congressman or senators (are)!
Find out! Look up "US Congress" and "US Senate" in yahoo search and you can find it listed by state.
I was talking to one of Senator Sununu's staffers one day when I lived in New Hampshire and she told me that when they get a handwritten letter they consider it like the "thoughts of 10,000 constituents because so few write."
So handwritten letters are very powerfull!!!
And faxes from different organisations as well as phone calls.
Don't be afraid to call, all of the staffers I've talked to have been very nice and they want to hear your opinions!
I belong to "NumbersUSA" and in the past *three days* members have sent more than 200,000 faxes/e-mails in opposition to Ted "Cocktail " Kennedy's and Bush's "Amnesty" Bills for illegal aliens and those bills haven't even been introduced yet!
I can imagine that their fax machines will be breaking down when and if those bills ever are introduced because so many people are against it.
So now you know what to do.

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 3:49:53 PM   
Sternhand4


Posts: 422
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		On the other hand form letter spamming your congresscritter or senator is of little value.

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 3:53:41 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Why arent the young kids standing up and protesting?

why is protesting suddenly viewed as useless and ineffective?


mixielicous,
My theory is that there is no consensus on which to focus a protest. The draft was a great focal point. People were being forced to fight and die. People's children were being forced to fight and die.  Policies concerning the draft were unbalanced and your race and/or economic situation put you at a greater risk of being forced to fight an die. That broad range of reasons brought a broad range of people who were either impacted by the situation or saw the injustice in it. Now you have a fighting force who not only volunteered but, contrary to the belief of some, have to meet a higher standard for entry than much of the public sector. Are you going to get much of a protest against all voluntary military?

Much of the media protest is self generated, from both sides. The hippies of the day, evolved into yuppies, who now in their late 50's and 60's pine for their lost influence. The truth is they are loud, and in the case of the Hollywood connection visible, but represent a minority position radically apart from the majority. If they didn't, you'd see better results at the protests. 

Another factor is you have to have a large group of uncomfortable people to mount a protest similar to the 60's anti-war movement. Too many people are currently comfortable in the US. So far, the war hasn't effected them. Even those with family and friends dieing or maimed have to concede that they were there voluntarily.

Then again, apathy is rampant. I think you'll get many comments providing lip service agreement but making it incumbent on someone else to tell them what to do. I'll tell you first hand that never was the case even in my college days that were relatively late in the game. We managed to find each other by way or fliers and word of month. I'd bet if the internet were around back in the day some of those protests would have literally shut down the country. There are just too many people whose idea of political involvement begins and ends with posts to a CM political thread.

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 4:20:46 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Casualties aren't that high.
 


Tell that to the friends and families of people killed, people with traumatic brain injuries, people who come home with parts of their body blown off, people whose lives are destroyed, people who are basically denied support because they lack the education, will, etc., to fight the Veterans Administration's red tape for services.

How many casualties do we need before you start to think of them as being "high?"

How many casualties above "high" before we get to unacceptable?

Sinergy

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 4:26:03 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Much of the media protest is self generated, from both sides. The hippies of the day, evolved into yuppies, who now in their late 50's and 60's pine for their lost influence. The truth is they are loud, and in the case of the Hollywood connection visible, but represent a minority position radically apart from the majority. If they didn't, you'd see better results at the protests. 

Mercnbeth


Hey!  i was a hippie and protested the War and am about 10 years younger than Mercnbeth ascribe to me.  BTW, Boomers are a huge majority and if we agreed on a political course of conduct we could rattle cages in Washington now maybe more effectively than we did in the 60's and 70's.  The fact is we have no consensus as to whether the Wars are immoral or not......and i for one believe our service people may be dying unnecessary deaths as PC notions about fighting become their orders.
 
candystripper

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 4:41:23 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		GenXer here.  Woodstock in '69 was the best though i was baby when my mother took me.  she protested Vietnam even though my father served.

flash forward to me - i protested Desert Storm back in the '90s even though my father served. i've marched in peace and "protest the war" marches here in Chicago even with my youngest UM in the stroller ...yes my father continues to serve (stationed in Arlington, he has the task of delivering the news to military families and help prepar the funerals).  i support the troops and want them to come home however i don't support Bush and his policies.

i'm doing my part and i know one person alone cannot change the world. however it's not just the GenXers but also the GenYers who seem passive about the policies of this administration.  i understand people are afraid of speaking out but there are still a few of us who still do - we're doing the best we can despite needing a permit to protest here in Chicago.

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 4:57:45 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

How many casualties do we need before you start to think of them as being "high?" How many casualties above "high" before we get to unacceptable?


And it is your right to protest in the face of these people who don't believe as you, or I for that matter, that the life of their solder son/daughter was given in vain. The great majority of people in these situations would disagree with us. They'd argue that its the very protest you make, the lack of support that I profess, is a direct cause of the death of the soldiers. Cindy Sheehan is news because she is a 'man bites dog' story, fueled by the fire of agenda based reporting on both sides. However even with that type of press, protests led by her maxed out at less than a few thousand.

When will it be "unacceptable" is a good question. I happen to belief that a very large majority of US citizens hold the position that if the soldiers weren't dieing over there, more would be dieing here. On September 12th 2001 I would have never placed a bet that we'd be 2007 and we didn't incur another attack on US soil. That fear may be the cause for the lack of universal support to an anti-war movement. Vietnam never had onus of an attack on the USA as a consequence of leaving. Even President Johnson administration's position on the domino theory was hollow in the actual threat, short or long term, to an attack on US soil.

quote:

Hey!  i was a hippie and protested the War and am about 10 years younger than Mercnbeth ascribe to me.
Candy, and I added 10 years to me too for that matter, but even then I couldn't grow hair long enough to qualify as a 'hippie'. I guess we were in the youth brigade. (Nice to see you back posting!)

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 5:23:26 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		I consider myself part of generation Y, not generation X.  As in why bother?  why should I do that?  why should I care?  Not necessarily saying everyone my age falls into this catagory, but I do believe the majority feels this way.

Apathy is contagious. 


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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 6:25:09 PM   
candystripper


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candystripper

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 6:30:36 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

How many casualties do we need before you start to think of them as being "high?" How many casualties above "high" before we get to unacceptable?


I happen to belief that a very large majority of US citizens hold the position that if the soldiers weren't dieing over there, more would be dieing here.



You lost me here.

Care to provide source material?  Or are you stating that you agree that no body count in Iraq is "unacceptable?"

Sinergy

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 6:32:28 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

Good news..
Today Microsoft and EA sports have announced...
VIRTUAL PROTEST 2007
AVAILIBLE ON XBOX AND PS3
 
If they don't have to leave the couch maybe you can get them interested.. lol
 
 



Too funny.

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 6:50:47 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

Much of the media protest is self generated, from both sides. The hippies of the day, evolved into yuppies, who now in their late 50's and 60's pine for their lost influence. The truth is they are loud, and in the case of the Hollywood connection visible, but represent a minority position radically apart from the majority. If they didn't, you'd see better results at the protests. 

Mercnbeth


Hey!  i was a hippie and protested the War and am about 10 years younger than Mercnbeth ascribe to me.  BTW, Boomers are a huge majority and if we agreed on a political course of conduct we could rattle cages in Washington now maybe more effectively than we did in the 60's and 70's.  The fact is we have no consensus as to whether the Wars are immoral or not......and i for one believe our service people may be dying unnecessary deaths as PC notions about fighting become their orders.
 
candystripper


I was a "Hippie" too but not one of those "Peace and Love" Hippies, more like a "Jeuvenile Delinquent"  Hippie.

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 7:11:41 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

where is the outrage to this empire? the violation of civil liberties left and right, the violation of rights, and choice? Where are the people opposed to the facist road this country is taking??


I think/hope some of the outrage showed up in last November's election results.

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(in reply to mixielicous)
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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 7:34:12 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Vis-a-vis the Viet Nam war...as long as the lowest economic fraction of our population was doing the dying no one gave a fuck.
1954-1967 approximately 50,000 troops in country 17,000 body bags.
1967-1972 approximately 500,000 troops in country 42,000 body bags.
Total 3,500,000 exposed 58,000+ body bags.
When middle class white boys started comming home in rubber sacks the war suddenly became moraly reprehensible.
Read the war mongers on this site talking about cowards going to Canada....how this is a red blue issue.
We are in Iraq trying to thug them out of their  oil and most of the anger is that the price of gas is over three  bux a gallon.  Somehow Cindy Shehan is some sort of a wack job because she speaks out.  No one gives a shit because either tacitly or actively they want the oil and as long as it is not their kid comming home in a rubber sack they could care less...just bring back gasoline at a buck fifty a gallon.
thompson

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RE: where is the outrage? [rant enclosed] - 3/12/2007 7:34:35 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

as my friend, Colbert puts it, at least if there was a draft, people would finally get off their lazy asses and protest the war! [paraphrased, of course]


Well.....tell Colbert I think he gets it. There's nothing I'd like to see more than a mass ''awakening of the mind'' through out the University systems of this country's landscape.



- R



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(in reply to mixielicous)
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