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Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 1:44:24 AM   
Attendedkarma


Posts: 42
Joined: 3/6/2007
Status: offline 		I want to know if its common place for a Dom or Domme to punish a sub/slave during the consideration period? I had this experience not that long ago...I was under consideration by a Dom from this site (i retracted the offer last night) and I did something that was innapropriate(not getting into it though) and he was trying to think up a punishment for me, well at the time that I did this innaproprate thing i thought that he had accepted me into training and was more than willing to accept what ever punishment he gave me...well then during the course of our conversation i asked him if in fact he had accepted me and he told me no that I was still under consideration and then i asked him then how is he going to punish me if im still under consideration and he told me that its like a job interview....anyways.. back to my question..i would like to hear from both Dominants and submissives.. thanks

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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 2:05:39 AM   
Hatari


Posts: 15
Joined: 12/15/2006
Status: offline 		You thought that whatever you did was inappropriate.

Would it have warrented punishment in a collared relationship?

If the answer is yes, what would you have thought of your Dom if He had ignored it, even though you were under consideration. I suspect that you would have wondered about His ability to control you etc and would have felt uncomfortable if He had not punished you.

you must always remember that anything you do is consenual and you can always refuse, I get the impression that you did not want to refuse the punishment. If it felt right then it probably was right.

(in reply to Attendedkarma)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 4:41:00 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hatari

you must always remember that anything you do is consenual and you can always refuse, I get the impression that you did not want to refuse the punishment. If it felt right then it probably was right.


I REALLLY disagree with this statement. I feal its one of the big misconceptions out there regarding the notion of consent in a D/S or M/S relationship. In fact, when you expand on the logic, its a bit silly almost.

If you agree to enter into consideration to be my slave or submissive, then you are giving me consent to set the rules and to discipline you accordingly for not following them.

As long as my will respects the limits, ethics, and other agreements we set when writing a contract, then you have no right to refuse my punishment. If you agree to follow the rules, you agree to the punishments.

You may withdraw consent at anytime, but by doing so, you are ending the relationship.

If you got to pick and choose which punishments to refuse and which ones to follow, the relationship would be no different than a vanilla one. It would be under the context of "I'll do what you say only if I want to." An illusion of power/authority exchange.

If you have a problem, we will talk about it like adults, but the decision is ultimately mine.

As far as the OP's question, consideration/training/collared are just labels. If you are in a developing relationship with me and I have set rules you have agreed to follow, then I am going to discipline if the rules are broken.

The scenario presented would come off to me as a sub/slave trying to lawyer tactics to avoid the discipline.

To me, the difference between being collared and all the other "stages" in the relationship is on the same lines as being together verses being married. If I were to collar someone, it would just mark the point where I felt the relationship developed to the point where we were committed to one another. Not being collared doesnt change any of the aspects of the dynamic or relationship.

This is just my two cents and how I work at the present time.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 3/14/2007 4:43:33 AM >

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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 4:41:25 AM   
Darkhaven80


Posts: 76
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline 		To me, it's fine that collaring can be a thing done much later and I don't seem to place the importance many here do on it, so punishment before this takes place doesn't seem abnormal in my eyes either.

(in reply to Hatari)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 4:52:53 AM   
MasterDesire


Posts: 45
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline 		We all forget one thing    Your only a sub or slave in your mind and your willingness to allow that to be controled by another. YOUR is the prime word. There are no laws in the US or in most countries that would force you to stay with anyone if you are wanting to leave. You cant be forced to stay in a marrage which is a legal contract and this life is not any where close to being a legal life by law. If your forced to stay then that becomes a matter of public law. So if you fell things are not right and your being abused and used for that rather than the true sharing in the life then RUN. A phone  neighbor ow something is always close enough to get you help if you so feel you need it to get away.

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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:00:57 AM   
Hatari


Posts: 15
Joined: 12/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbi]

You may withdraw consent at anytime, but by doing so, you are ending the relationship.


I think you make the same point, consent is in the hands of the sub. What happens if it is withdrawn is between the couple, yes I agree that it would probabaly be the end of the relationship.

< Message edited by Hatari -- 3/14/2007 5:06:56 AM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:01:50 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDesire

We all forget one thing    Your only a sub or slave in your mind and your willingness to allow that to be controled by another. YOUR is the prime word. There are no laws in the US or in most countries that would force you to stay with anyone if you are wanting to leave. You cant be forced to stay in a marrage which is a legal contract and this life is not any where close to being a legal life by law. If your forced to stay then that becomes a matter of public law. So if you fell things are not right and your being abused and used for that rather than the true sharing in the life then RUN. A phone  neighbor ow something is always close enough to get you help if you so feel you need it to get away.


No, I didnt forget that...

Its what I meant by this statement right here...

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

You may withdraw consent at anytime, but by doing so, you are ending the relationship.


You are free to leave me at any point you want, but this...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hatari

you must always remember that anything you do is consenual and you can always refuse, I get the impression that you did not want to refuse the punishment. If it felt right then it probably was right.


..wont happen in one of my relationships.

If a submissive chooses which orders/punishments/commands to refuse and which to follow, then I really have no authority in the relationship. There is no D/S relationship since one never really existed in the first place and its pointless for us to be together.

If I wanted someone who could refuse my will whenever they wanted to, then I wouldnt be here and be dating vanilla again

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Advice for New Dominants
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Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:03:04 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hatari

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbi]

You may withdraw consent at anytime, but by doing so, you are ending the relationship.


I think you make the same point, consent is in the hands of the sub. What happens if it is withdrawn is between the couple, yes I agree that it would pobabaly be the end of the relationship.



I figured thats what you meant, but the way you wrote it shed the completely wrong impresson.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Hatari)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:06:53 AM   
MasterDesire


Posts: 45
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline 		One thing we all need to remember and understand well is. The law reguarding domestic violence will always be on the side of the female or the one abused and under the law if the police are called the one with the marks will be in the right and the other will end up in jail likely for 72 hours, no bond out.  Even if the one with the marks does not wish to press charges  your still going to jail. WE all need to be careful all the time. CYA

< Message edited by MasterDesire -- 3/14/2007 5:07:54 AM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:16:25 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I think that the real issue here is not about punishment during the consideration period,
but about miscommunication.  You guys were not "on the same page" at all.
 
 

(Edited for formatting)

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 3/14/2007 5:17:08 AM >

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"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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(in reply to Attendedkarma)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:16:34 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Inappropriate behavior calls for some response, no matter what the dynamics. When my friends do something inappropriate, I call them on that. When a woman I am considering does something  inappropriate,and in this case it sounds like you both see your action as being improper, of course there will be a consequence, even if it just, as MR suggests, having an (I love this) "adult conversation" about it. Punishment involves more than the actual consequence for me, I sit down with her and discuss her action, show her where she was wrong and why I am giving the punishment that I am, its supposed to be instructional. Generally speaking, she agrees with me as too what was done improperly and also to the consequence, but either way, the final decision is mine.In the end, she only has one choice, to obey, or not. If she chooses not to obey a punishment, whats the point of continuing a D/S relationship, at this point it is based on a lie and is just roll play.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:17:56 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		And not all punishments involve violence, thats a misnomer there. The very best ones do not.

(in reply to Kana)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:21:01 AM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		It sounds to me as if the OP had a difference of opinion than the Dominant about what being under consideration means. For some it means the Dominant can and should discipline, for others it may be a period of pointing out where they would have been disciplined. (Kind of like a parent who will give a warning each time before striking.) This Dominant seems to be the former, and the sub thought she had agreed to the latter. She agreed with the discipline being merited, she just did not expect it to be doled out.

To prevent this in the future, talk about boundaries and interpretations about everything... all along the way... every title can be interpreted differently.

If He was a good Dominant, and you see things differently, it is a good gesture on your part to say so. Let Him know you are learning. He may remember this and handle things differently in His future.

Be Well~*
Master's dorei

(in reply to MasterDesire)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:27:26 AM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		Think of it this way. Many workplaces have a trial period, usually three months. During those three months you are obligated to behave according to company rules and you are subject to the same sets of disciplinary actions as regular employees.

That this Dom disciplined you for something even you deem as inappropriate is quite in line. He is considering you and that means that you are subject to his rules since you have given him your submission. It is odd that you would think that a consideration period would allow you to behave in an inappropriate manner with no consequences. Could it be that your feelings were hurt because the consideration period was not over yet?

But ahhhhhh, it is all a learning process. You've had a good lesson. Now move on and do better next time.

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You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to Kana)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:27:58 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Attendedkarma

I want to know if its common place for a Dom or Domme to punish a sub/slave during the consideration period?

Yes, when you are under consideration, it is still appropriate to punish.  Actually, to allow innapropriate behavior (to use your word) to go unpunished during the consideration period is asking for trouble.  Whensomeone is under consideration, they are supposed to be on their best behavior. This is the point in time when you and your would-be Dom are getting to know one another and seeing if you are compatible.  This doesnt mean just the good parts of the relationship.  You are building trust, but you also have to know that when you misbehave, your Dom is going to punish the behavior. Learning how they do so, and what seems appropriate punishment for what misstepps is important as well.
If you would have been OK with the punishment had he already accepted you, then the change in title of what your relationship is shouldnt change whether or not the punishment would have ben appropriate.

AS to violence in punishment, I have only raised my hand to Angel once since I have had him, in punishment.  That was a spanking, hardly earth shattering.  Most of the punishments I have considered for him have been mental, and have worked far better than any physical thing I could have done. Its like when you punish a child.  A smack might make a point, but taking away priveleges makes sure it wont be repeated.

DV

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Snarko Ergo Sum
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*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Attendedkarma)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:29:31 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

And not all punishments involve violence, thats a misnomer there. The very best ones do not.


Amen.

It seems to me that qute a few doms are just looking for an excuse to beat their slaves, rather than actually correct behavior.

Personally, I dont need an excuse. I'll beat my submissive whenever I want with a paddle, but it will be for our pleasure rather than my disapointment.

Picking up a paddle is like the "you've really fucked up, end of the line, everything else has failed, no other alternatives" punishment for me.

I rather tailor punishments to specifically correct the bad behavior which is why I use discipline rather than punishment.

If dominants would stop thinking up kinky punishments and start thinking of how to correct bad behaviors, I think there would be a lot more successful dominants out there.





< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 3/14/2007 5:30:48 AM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:36:18 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		During the time a person is being considered for a position,
either a serious conversation or an appropriate punishment
may be in order.
 
Since I tend to attract hard-core masochists, pain is not going
to be used for punishment.  I much prefer to employ mind-
numbing repetitive tasks that bore them to tears.
 
(Writing 100 times "I must not do ....")
 
Or making them simply do something that will make them
profoundly uncomfortable on a mental level.
 
(You want me to do what?  where? when?  Oh shit!)



(Edited to include more information)

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 3/14/2007 5:38:06 AM >

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 5:47:57 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		A punishment should serve a dual purpose, it should serve as a chastisement, but hopefully also to educate and correct behavior.The shrinks call it behavioral modification therapy. I make them do things like read Aristotle, or learn how to change a tire. If you ever want to be truly evil, just look at her and say,"My God, I can't even begin to come up with a consequence for something like that, pick out a punishment and then get back to me about it...but don't make it too light."

If she is a true submissive, she will then spend the next X number of days flipping out about it, trying to come up with a consequence that will satisfy me, yet not be too lenient on herself. Its just awesome to watch. Ain't I just plain wrong sometimes.

(in reply to Vendaval)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 6:12:55 AM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		~chuckling at Kana's post~

That's wonderful.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to Kana)
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RE: Punishments and Consideration period - 3/14/2007 6:18:03 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Attendedkarma

I want to know if its common place for a Dom or Domme to punish a sub/slave during the consideration period? I had this experience not that long ago...I was under consideration by a Dom from this site (i retracted the offer last night) and I did something that was innapropriate(not getting into it though) and he was trying to think up a punishment for me, well at the time that I did this innaproprate thing i thought that he had accepted me into training and was more than willing to accept what ever punishment he gave me...well then during the course of our conversation i asked him if in fact he had accepted me and he told me no that I was still under consideration and then i asked him then how is he going to punish me if im still under consideration and he told me that its like a job interview....anyways.. back to my question..i would like to hear from both Dominants and submissives.. thanks


Frankly this is one of the reasoning I dislike the entire "under consideration" concept. What exactly does it mean? Apparently everything and nothing because few people seem willing to negotiate and set up the expectations for each person.

If you (generic you here) do not take the time to set up the rules, the rules can be whatever either of you wants at any time. I think that's a recipe for conflict and confusion.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

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And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Attendedkarma)
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