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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 2:54:16 PM   
mixielicous


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I've said it before so am am only repeating myself but I do it because this is the first time I have ever agreed totally with NG,
let the dog have his days in peace and maybe the alpha in the family, why not ?

because when you let the dog take the role of pack leader you no longer are the boss. who wants that?

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 2:55:40 PM   
mixielicous


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Depending on the dog, at 15, their eyes are going, their legs are going and all sorts......if an old dear is in a wheelchair you wouldn't attempt to learn her to walk. I'm in full agreement that a dog needs to know its place in the pack, otherwise it will attempt to subvert it, but at 15? I think it depends on the dog's health and 15 is a good innings for a dog i.e. most dogs are on their last legs if they've made it to 15.

Is a 15 years old dog the equivalent of an 80 years old man/woman? Aren't we talking nearer 90/95 years old here?

age-ism.

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:00:43 PM   
mixielicous


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion

Thanks every one:) She says she makes him go away from the door and he still pushes her out of the way, but I don't think she does. Because I know he don't push me out of the way, if I tell him I don't want him bumbrushing the door and I demonstrate what I expect.

this is where she needs to make the dog sit. get a leash, and make the dog sit. dont let your mother walk out that front door until the dog is calm. you can do complete correction without ANY contact at all. if the dog wont listen and starts getting antsy after a moment tug on his leash and distract him from his train of thought [again, dog whisperer]

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:06:25 PM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I've said it before so am am only repeating myself but I do it because this is the first time I have ever agreed totally with NG,
let the dog have his days in peace and maybe the alpha in the family, why not ?

because when you let the dog take the role of pack leader you no longer are the boss. who wants that?


The OP was not about a "biting" vicious dog just an old one thats a bit kranky and wants his own way. Give it to him I say.

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:09:32 PM   
mixielicous


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From: Boston area, Massachusetts
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I've said it before so am am only repeating myself but I do it because this is the first time I have ever agreed totally with NG,
let the dog have his days in peace and maybe the alpha in the family, why not ?

because when you let the dog take the role of pack leader you no longer are the boss. who wants that?


The OP was not about a "biting" vicious dog just an old one thats a bit kranky and wants his own way. Give it to him I say.

give them an inch and they are guaranteed to take a mile

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:14:56 PM   
MistressDiane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous


quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I've said it before so am am only repeating myself but I do it because this is the first time I have ever agreed totally with NG,
let the dog have his days in peace and maybe the alpha in the family, why not ?

because when you let the dog take the role of pack leader you no longer are the boss. who wants that?


To add to mixie's statement...... The dog is a biter, she's already said that. As a biter that's left unchecked and bad behavior encouraged biting most likely will become more of a habit then just a once in a while thing. I don't care how old she is, unless she has no teeth a dog bite is never a good thing. The neighbors parents aren't gonna give a shit how old the dog is if it bites one of their kids.

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:23:19 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		Where does it say the dog is a "biter".....not in the OP.

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:29:53 PM   
MistressDiane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion

kisshou he bites sometimes cause like if you have food and you gently push him away cause he's crowding you, or sometimes he bites if you pick him up because you need to say, put him on the grooming table or into the tub. he has temper tanturms basically. He gets very crabby with you at certain times,  like one time he put his feet on the bed and I gently put them down and he growled at me and I got after him and he deicded his reaction would be to try to bite me,  to which I sent him outside. he's usualy very sweet. He does get crabby tho.


I agree she should take the time to train him not to rush past her. If I ask him to step away from the door and let me in he usualy does.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion
I do not advicate smacking him for any offense exept biting


If your dog is biting you have a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Please make sure no child is ever left unattended with this dog.

If the dog is 15 the dog is elderly ask your mom if that is how she would treat someone in their 90's at the end of their life.



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"..and they who danced were thought insane by those who refused to hear the music." ~Monet

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:35:20 PM   
sonny2000


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Status: offline 		The only way anyone should ever hit a dog is to sit them down and slap them upward under the chin not to hard just firmly and scold them.This is only for dogs that are acting aggressively toward peaple and other dogs.
A calm hand on a leash and firm comands should work for anything else.
Since a dogs nose is at least 3 times as sensitive as yours I would use a shock collar on anyone who smacks a dog that way besides then they want to bite mailmen and paper boys

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:35:59 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		Missed that post about the dog biting....but I still wouldnt have the heart to discipline an old dog.

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:37:44 PM   
sonny2000


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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:42:21 PM   
RPutnamJr


Posts: 176
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Status: offline 		My dogs when they misbehaved were either yelled at, slapped on the side of the mouth, or spanked with a yard stick or rolled up newspaper (one swat usually did it). And by everybody's accounts were 100% spoiled rotten. They all lived to ripe old ages.

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:42:59 PM   
SusanofO


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Status: offline 		Probably, if they're hit hard enough, would be my guess. I just would never strike my dogs. I just can't do it (which is pretty strange, considering I have no trouble spanking someone, or being spanked, for instance). But of course, my doggies and I have no consensual bdsm contract, hehe. And I also have two very well-behaved dogs that have rather tranquil personalities, that have never have come close to what I consider wild and unruly.

I am probably not the one to ask, but I just couldn't hit my doggies, I don't think. I can see why some would want to, I am just not sure how effective it would be, and it might make them sad and or angry instead, and be completely ineffective from that POV, IMO. I am thinking there has to be a better way to maybe handle a situation. 

Maybe explain to her that in your view it is more or less akin to "child abuse" plus ineffective to boot, and offer to find another way to train your dog to not do whatever it is that is bugging her. If she still insists that she's gonna do it, then I'd just tell her she is a meanie (really). If it really is abusive, I'd keep the dog away from her (you know if it is a swat, or if she is going way overboard).

If she insists her way is best, I'd just look at her and say: "Well, I guess it's true what they say - you really can't teach an old dog new tricks." hehe. And walk away. lol

Not to mention, it's your dog and not hers.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/17/2007 3:53:07 PM >

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:47:10 PM   
sonny2000


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Status: offline 		By the way a dog fully mature at 2 or 3 years old is at is peak at 4 to 7 after 7 it becomes a senior, dogs over 7 can show little signs of aging if they are in good health untill ther last years

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 3:50:26 PM   
untamedshysub


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Joined: 2/26/2005
Status: offline 		I have two dogs one is 15 yrs and the other is 5 years the older one can do what she wants because she is old and like old people she moves a little slow and has her good days and bad days. she cant hear and her eyes are failing soif she wants to sit down and not come in we stay out a few min longer. The younger dog is full of pep controlling him sometimes is like having a class of little kids but he behaves for the most part hates the people who lives next door and barks when they come home and he gets in trouble but I did some research and that is what his breed does , they alert when something is going on so I allow him to announce then he shuts up.

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 4:43:22 PM   
kisshou


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Status: offline 		feline,

the real problem is your mom not respecting that the dog is yours and you are working on training the dog. You need to become alpha not only over the dog but of your mom. Train your mom in whatever good technique you want to use to train your dog and explain how important being consistant is. Hopefully your mom will do the right thing but I would not be comfortable leaving my pet with someone who told me they were going to hit him.

You are the only protection your dog has , you dog is counting on you to step up!

btw the new pictures are very nice

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 5:33:17 PM   
ExtremeMP


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From: New Orleans area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

feline,

the real problem is your mom not respecting that the dog is yours and you are working on training the dog. You need to become alpha not only over the dog but of your mom. Train your mom in whatever good technique you want to use to train your dog and explain how important being consistant is. Hopefully your mom will do the right thing but I would not be comfortable leaving my pet with someone who told me they were going to hit him.

You are the only protection your dog has , you dog is counting on you to step up!

btw the new pictures are very nice


Absolutely Correct!

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 5:52:33 PM   
firemuse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion

sparkle he's 15, hehe, he never was trained by us, but I think someone else before us did teach him sit and stay cause he knows it. now if he'll do it is another question lol.

If you tell him to stay out he will. *or he does for dad and I* mom just don't bother to make sure he's not hot on her heels and she gets pushed past.


Maybe the reason he doesn't behave properly for her is her dated training methods??

Her way of thinking is very old school and frankly - ineffective.  We've come a long way in dog training in the last decade or two.  What we do now know is that you have about 1/2 a second after the behavior, to reinforce - any more, the dog is not capable of putting together cause/effect.

Hitting does nothing for the dog, only the person.  It serves no training purpose (especially if the timing is off).  Just "payback".

Also - I was going to answer that while it's poor training to hit a dog (lightly) on the nose it won't likely injure him, but upon reading that this dog is 15 - yikes.  Yes, it could.  Shame on anyone who would hit a dog this age.  :(

PS - perhaps tell her ANYONE can smack or force a dog to do something...if you want to truly train - whisper, don't yell - hands off.  THAT is training.

firemuse

Alienum est omne quicquid optando evenit

< Message edited by firemuse -- 3/17/2007 5:55:30 PM >

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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/17/2007 5:55:04 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Depending on the dog, at 15, their eyes are going, their legs are going and all sorts......if an old dear is in a wheelchair you wouldn't attempt to learn her to walk. I'm in full agreement that a dog needs to know its place in the pack, otherwise it will attempt to subvert it, but at 15? I think it depends on the dog's health and 15 is a good innings for a dog i.e. most dogs are on their last legs if they've made it to 15.

Is a 15 years old dog the equivalent of an 80 years old man/woman? Aren't we talking nearer 90/95 years old here?


Approximately one calendar year for every five to seven dog years.

Although it depends on the breed.  Large breeds dont live much longer than 8-10 years, while small breeds can go 10-15.

Sinergy



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RE: Can you hurt a dog if you hit them on their nose? - 3/18/2007 7:47:09 AM   
MistressDiane


Posts: 334
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		What I've found disturbing is nobodies concern for the mother. I'm sure she's not a spring chicken anymore and her response most likely comes from her fear of  falling and being injured. Sorry guys call me old fashioned but when it comes down to my mother being injured or the dog learning some manners, I'm for teaching the dog some respect for all the humans in his life.  She most likely feels a little hurt too that you'd allow her to be put in this position by not training him from the onset of these problems and letting it continue til she has to fear for her safety.

edited to add.... I don't know if you have toddlers in your life or around your home but this behavior is very dangerous for them as well. What if a child is walking in the door and the dog "bowls" them over to get in first and in the meantime the child cries, yells or reacts quickly, who's to say they won't get bitten as well? I have a heart for elderly dogs but I can also see the danger in the situation of letting the dog get away with being aggressive AND in control. It's not a good combination.

< Message edited by MistressDiane -- 3/18/2007 7:53:14 AM >

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"..and they who danced were thought insane by those who refused to hear the music." ~Monet

*Suffer BayBeee!!!!!*

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