Aswad
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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I think you are reading too much into something that women do as a communication device. It is not lying, we know exactly what we mean when we talk like this. I prefer not to talk like this myself, but when I hear women say things like this I know exactly what they mean. So perhaps men are from Mars and women Truly are from Venus?
It may serve as a communication device among women, but it is either a lie, or an entirely different language. It does not further communication across genders. Clarity and directness usually does, however. Regardless of gender.
If I say something that isn't true, despite knowing what I really mean, it's still lying.
And if I answer something evasively, in such a manner as to not lie directly but still avoid saying the truth, knowing full well what I mean, and how it will be perceived, a woman will still (rightly) consider me to be lying.
So I don't see how this is reading anything into it. I'm just commenting that, for some reason, women frequently lie about certain things without considering it a lie, despite this frequently pissing off men they talk to, and consider it invalid for men to react in that way, despite not accepting lies themselves, even when men tell those for similarly neutral reasons. Seems odd, when one could just say what one means.
I haven't met any women who have a problem with me saying "Why don't we talk about it?" or "Let's discuss it". Quite on the contrary, they're usually pleasantly surprised that a man would be interesting in seeking consensus on something fairly trivial.
I don't get pissed off by it anymore, I just don't cater to it. Instead, I do the respectful thing of assuming they aren't lying. If they argue about it afterwards, I calmly talk to them about the problem. Most are surprised to be asked to speak their mind, but quickly find this preferrable.
Not trying to be disrespectful, or anything. I know men and women speak in different ways. I've studied this a fair bit, since I play and storyguide table-top RPG's and sometimes have to portray female characters or NPC's. Getting the mannerisms, speech patterns and voice down improves the realism of the game. But there is a difference between the learned/cultural aspects (like saying "I don't care" when you do) and those that are more instrinsic. I suspect this one is a left-over from something or other.
But there are quite a few standing jokes among men about the way women say things they don't mean, just as I suspect there are similar ones among women about the way men talk. Some are justified, on both sides.
I know people whose relationships have been on the verge of permanently collapsing due to these speech patterns. And we (my circle of friends, both genders) usually laugh whenever someone we didn't expect to make it says "I asked her if I could go out, and she said 'Sure'.", as we know this means: "Sure, but there will be hell to pay when you get back". This may be a speech pattern local to Norwegian women, but I wouldn't be surprised if it exists in English as well.
Unfortunately, men are usually fairly straightforward, and not used to the cloak-and-daggers play, so many spend months or even years not catching on, and in the meantime, the relationship suffers. And when they realize what's going on, they become hurt and frustrated that someone would let the relationship suffer by lying, when everything could have been resolved by being upfront about things.
I don't mind at all if a woman tells me "No, I'd rather you stay home today", but I do mind if she says "Sure, go be with your friends" and then gets all pissed off when I trust what she's told me. I don't play word games with people I like.
Fortunately, I don't have this problem with my nephandi, most of the time. But, then again, people into BDSM seem to be more aware of communication issues.
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