RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (Full Version)

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seeksfemslave -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 5:31:06 PM)

The sole reason given by the government was that Iraq's WMDs represented a threat to Britain.

Regarding WMD's and the Iraq invasion that statement is untrue, never happend, not nohow not neva !
Dont put too much faith in the Guardian which is written by a bunch of trendies who cry "give us a subsidy" , lets be nice to criminals, the more immigrants from 3rd World piss pots the betta. etc etc etc

Claire Short is a political  opportunist of the worst kind who couldnt decide what to do, needs the money you know and represents a constituency that could be best described as B'ham Ladywoodistan.

You would never think that a Parliamentary vote took place and a majority supported the invasion, would you ?
The major problem in Iraq at present is the murderous mindless useless religious fundamentalism of the Islamic mindset. Started to use gas in their fun and games I see.



puella -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 5:40:39 PM)

NorthernGent????



seeksfemslave -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 5:46:59 PM)

Dont call for him he's part of the problem. A local government functionary, costing ,as a group zillions, and producing , and I think this is the first time I have ever use the word, FUCK ALL.

He knows which side his bread is buttered.  Tax you and pay me.

Hastily edited to say that when I speak of "Gov. Functionaries" I mean parasitical administrators.
In fact it is now a standing joke in the UK that the Wednesday Guardian is their Bible. Full of job vacancies requesting Tax funded managers to ensure that people eat enough fruit or that everybody loves one another without regard to race creed or colour.



puella -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 5:55:00 PM)

He is a Brit, seeksfemslave...

unlike me, who.. though I lived there for 4 years, am hardly an expert,who better to comment on the British political system than a well informed, very intelligent Brit?



seeksfemslave -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 5:59:42 PM)

To each his own MsP, thats all I can say.



dcnovice -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 7:21:16 PM)

quote:

My own are that #8 and #9 together indicate strong feelings of conflict about the war, wanting Iraq to become stable but feeling that will never happen.  And # 14 and #15 together indicate that loosing the war does not dimish the US as a superpower, but that trying to achieve stability in the region is a priority.


I think many folks, myself included, are genuinely torn about what to do next in Iraq.

Do need to point out, though, that questions 9 and 15 lead the witness a bit. Asking people if we should leave "the job" undone is different from simply asking if we should withdraw from Iraq. And I'm not surprised that few people were willing to say they "really don't care" what happens, given all the effort we've put into the situation.



dcnovice -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 7:22:20 PM)

quote:

Hi dc, looks like we were doing the same thing at the same time!  lol


Indeed! But you have more typing stamina than I do. Thanks!



dcnovice -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 7:27:03 PM)

quote:

AMERICANS WANT TO WIN IN IRAQ NATIONAL SURVEY SAYS:


FYI:

Public Opinion Strategies, the folks who did the poll, identify themselves as a "Republican polling firm" in a press release entitled "PUBLIC OPINION STRATEGIES MOURNS REPUBLICAN LOSSES, CONGRATULATES MANY INDIVIDUAL WINNERS IN TOUGH RACES."



FirmhandKY -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 7:38:12 PM)

Very good, dc.

Yes, never trust a survey without reading the source, the funding, and - most important - reading the original questions and how they are phrased.

Unfortunately, in the main stream media, those things aren't always available, and it makes it difficult to figure out how much credence to put into the results of a survey.

Also, be aware, that "leading" may or may not be valid, and you can lead a participants both ways.  Which is way more valid?

FirmKY



dcnovice -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 7:40:47 PM)

quote:

Also, be aware, that "leading" may or may not be valid, and you can lead a participants both ways.  Which is way more valid?


Well, obviously, the valid way is the one that yields an answer I like. [:)]



dcnovice -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 7:41:59 PM)

quote:

Unfortunately, in the main stream media, those things aren't always available, and it makes it difficult to figure out how much credence to put into the results of a survey.


True, and I'm fairly skeptical of all political polls for that very reason.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 7:44:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Well, obviously, the valid way is the one that yields an answer I like. [:)]


Of course!



Real0ne -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 7:49:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

AMERICANS WANT TO WIN IN IRAQ NATIONAL SURVEY SAYS:


FYI:

Public Opinion Strategies, the folks who did the poll, identify themselves as a "Republican polling firm" in a press release entitled "PUBLIC OPINION STRATEGIES MOURNS REPUBLICAN LOSSES, CONGRATULATES MANY INDIVIDUAL WINNERS IN TOUGH RACES."



screw polls.  the neocons stuck their dicks on the chopping block and the rest of the world is taking slices of it. 

There are only 2 ways to "win".

One take over the whole freaking world impose martial law and kill anyone who thinks bad thoughts.

Second declare ourselves the winner and get the hell out.

Thats the kinds of predicaments the us likes to be in where we take it in the ass one way and get our dicks chopped off the other. 

Maybe some day flag wavers will wize up

Yeh lets win! go go gi jo!



Vendaval -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/18/2007 11:39:32 PM)

Way to go, dc! 


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
FYI:

Public Opinion Strategies, the folks who did the poll, identify themselves as a "Republican polling firm" in a press release entitled "PUBLIC OPINION STRATEGIES MOURNS REPUBLICAN LOSSES, CONGRATULATES MANY INDIVIDUAL WINNERS IN TOUGH RACES."



meatcleaver -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/19/2007 2:01:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Claire Short is a political  opportunist of the worst kind who couldnt decide what to do, needs the money you know and represents a constituency that could be best described as B'ham Ladywoodistan.


Claire Short totally miscalculated the time to resign. She was obviously wanting to hang on to her job and thought she could get Blair to keep a promise. LOL If the man can't be straight with Brown, he isn't going to be straight with anyone. By the time she walked, she had shot herself in the foot.



seeksfemslave -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/19/2007 5:43:52 AM)

I thought you would have to blame Blair for Short's shortcomings.lol
If she is so hi principled why didn't she resign when the cabinet decisions about Iraq were made.

If you ever saw that programme where she was shown going back to be a teacher you would know what she is like. Couldn't teach, couldnt control the kids and wouldn't listen to those that could.

Another point, having resigned the Labour whip ( no longer accepting Party control in Parliament), did she put herself up for re election?
If she wants to be independant she should have got elected as an independent.



NorthernGent -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/19/2007 6:17:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

It's a shame that.  He was such an amazing force before all this.  Robin Cook too was a huge blow.  Did you know he was thinking about re entering political life before he died?



Puella, those on the left have few kind words to say about Blair. He is accused of destroying The Labour Party and, with the help of spin doctors and economists, turning the party into a pseudo conservative party. He calls himself a moderniser, but what he really means is returning to the 19th century where people relied on the private sector and scraps of charity. I have a certain amount of sympathy for his domestic policy because he is a servant of what is largely a conservative nation, so his hands are tied in terms of social policy, but allowing the party to be bought by business interests and surrounding himself with people who are essentially marketing strategists are just unforgiveable (this was one of the areas which gave us the moral high ground over conservatives i.e. we couldn't be bought because big business are our opponents - Blair has ceded this ground). He has reduced a party with traditions of workers' solidarity and social responsibility to nothing more than the servants of big business. In everything but name, New Labour are now a conservative party - largely thanks to Blair.

In terms of Iraq, it appears to confirm the accusations of many on both the left and right i.e. he is not to be trusted.

I wasn't aware Robin Cook (RIP) was thinking of getting involved again. Many were caught between a rock and a hard place over Iraq and Blair in general - leave the party in disgust on the grounds that The Labour Party is dead and cannot recover or work to return it to its roots from within. Cook decided to resign, as did others, and I think he did the right thing. People like Cook had spent decades ploughing his efforts into a party working towards workers' representation - it must have been a tough decision to resign, but what's the point in batting for the other side?



NorthernGent -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/19/2007 6:34:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

My own are that #8 and #9 together indicate strong feelings of conflict about the war, wanting Iraq to become stable but feeling that will never happen.  And # 14 and #15 together indicate that loosing the war does not dimish the US as a superpower, but that trying to achieve stability in the region is a priority.


I think many folks, myself included, are genuinely torn about what to do next in Iraq.

Do need to point out, though, that questions 9 and 15 lead the witness a bit. Asking people if we should leave "the job" undone is different from simply asking if we should withdraw from Iraq. And I'm not surprised that few people were willing to say they "really don't care" what happens, given all the effort we've put into the situation.


Dc, I'm curious as to what the US people could possibly have to gain from US forces staying in Iraq.

1) The place descended into chaos from the moment Western forces arrived on their doorstep. Their presence is not going to lead to democracy or a Western-inclined Iraq.

2) Assuming some US people genuinely want to see a prosperous Iraq, it is not the policy of the US government, so it isn't going to happen.

3) The WMDs farce etc.

The only benefit to the US is that the profits from oil and construction contracts are ploughed into the US economy. Wealth gap statistics suggest that while the money will be ploughed back into the economy to generate economic growth, those benefitting will be your elites and upper-middle classes. So, in economic, moral and social terms, unless you're in the realms of the upper echelons of US society, I'm struggling to see any benefit to being in Iraq. I'm curious to hear why many folks are torn.




seeksfemslave -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/19/2007 9:18:50 AM)

What I say about Blair is that he got the Labour part elected, if they return to the ideas of Wedgie Benn and Arthur Scargell they will disappear down the plughole again. Both WB and AS are unreconstructed Socialists who advocate Workers Paradises and state control of everything fot the good, as they see it ,of all but in practice turn out to be good for bugga all.

An odd paradox about Left Wing intellectuals ,who usually are trendy and PC libertarian  ,is that they just dont seem to grasp how authoritarian ,to the point of Fascist, are many in the Working Class.

The rise in Welfare Expenditure has not been associated with a rise in worker contentment, rather the opposite, which the trendies put down to the stresses and srains of having to make a living.
Those estates at which most welfare payment is directed are those that experience the most crime and general nihilist behaviour.

Have I wandered of the topic? Well I only picked up on what was said by he who must not be mentioned.



NorthernGent -> RE: Report on the Anti-War Protest this weekend ... (3/19/2007 10:00:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

unreconstructed Socialists...........Workers Paradises..........state control of everything...........Left Wing intellectuals......trendy and PC libertarian.......authoritarian ,to the point of Fascist, are many in the Working Class.......The rise in Welfare Expenditure...............Those estates at which most welfare payment is directed are those that experience the most crime and general nihilist behaviour.



I'm curious. You always attack, and most of it is ill-conceived and often derogatory, but you rarely nail your own colours to the mast. Your voting patterns over the last 10 years?



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