Padriag
Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
A thread to:
a) Draw a line between the left and the right and
b) To further understanding of each others' point of view.
In all honesty I find difficulty with this. Personally I find myself identifying most with the observations Firmhand has made and I think they hold especially true in America. In Germany or Ireland (where I also hold citizenship) I find those same views to be too simplistic to account for all the dynamics present. America is largely and heavily polarized by two major parties which are by far the biggest dogs on the block. It is hard to discuss left or right politics in the US and not think in terms of Republican vs Democratic parties. This is not true for most of Europe where there are more parties, each with larger portions of the voting block. For example in Germany the Christian Democratic Union and the Social Democratic Party are the two largest, but three other parties each have 8-10% of the voting block... and most of those five are centrist rather than right or left wing (only two of the smaller parties are left wing, no major party is right wing). Irish politics are even more complicated and there are more parties involved, though again, some of the largest tend to be centrist.
But in general I find that I agree with Firmhand's assessments and reasoning. Among the Left I see trends towards idealism, towards a belief in innate goodness in people, a belief that most problems can be solved through talking, a belief that greater education and opportunity will solve many problems, a belief in redistribution of wealth and by extension an belief that if all resources were shared equally there would be no wars, a belief that war is always or almost always evil and wrong, a belief that all human life (and for some all life in general) is sacred, a belief in communal / community spirit and cooperation, a belief that the community is more important than the individual, a belief that the no one individual has any right to infringe upon another, and a propensity towards utopian concepts. Among the Left I have noted a general trend towards decision making based more on emotion and feeling, on a kind of general empathy towards others. I see this as being especially true in America with which I have had the most time to observe.
Among the Right I have observed general tendancies towards a belief in the use of force as valid means to resolve conflicts, that human life is not sacrosanct and the "right" to life is predicated on your actions (ie a murder gives up their own right to live), a belief in the individual / self, the individual can be more important than the community (particularly in regards to the communities ability to infringe upon the individual), a general belief in competition over cooperation, a belief that one individual can infringe upon another under certain circumstances (the circumstances varying over time), a more cynical outlook, a belief the world is an inherently dangerous place that one must be prepared to defend against, a general belief that trust must be earned and therefore honor and honorable behavior is of great importance (because it demonstrates who can be trusted). Among the Right I have observed a trend towards evidence based decision making, the reliance on numbers, calculations, observable facts when determining a course of action, even if this means being harsh or ignoring emotion.
You'll note I couched most things as generalities, I don't believe there are any absolutes here and I also believe many people are actually centrist holding a mix of such views that may be a bit right or left of center. It seems the far left and right are reserved for politicians and lunatics... which are sometimes hard to tell apart.
I think the debate in America over Mexicans entering the US illegally to find work demonstrates some of the fundamental differences. The Left earnestly believes that these Mexicans are basically all good people who just want jobs and if they were simply given the chance to work and gain an education everything would be just fine. They see little or no risk in opening the border to unrestricted immigration because of their belief in the innate goodness of people. The Right, conversely, see's inherit risk in such unrestricted immigration, the possibility of it being exploited by criminals and terrorist, the additional burden on healthcare and education, and the problem of trying to police undocumented individuals when they do commit crimes. They have serious questions about who can be trusted, and how to enforce any decisions that are made. They ultimately choose to enforce the laws as written, without regard to the individual, as the only fair way they can cope with a complex problem. The Left views it a humanitarian crisis and extending their empathy to the Mexican immigrants want only to help. The Right views it as a national crisis and counting the cost, examining the problems and risks, wants only to protect.
Another would be gun control. The Left would ultimately like to see guns removed from the hands of private individuals, the Right firmly believes in the right of the individual to own, possess, and use guns. Again, the argument is rooted in their different outlooks. The Right, believing in the individual also believes by extension the individual is both capable of, and responsible for, owning guns. The Left, believing in the community over the individual, also believes by extension that only the community can responsibly own guns (ie restricted to those authorized for their use such as police and the military), that individuals cannot be trusted with this potential threat to the community.
The irony is, both have good intentions, both have valid points... and generally neither can see that in the other. As Caitlyn already pointed out, the problem has become so polarized in the US I am concerned it may be passing the point where any reasonable compromise can be reached. And while on the whole I am concerned less with Republican policies than I am Democratic, I recognize both are corrupt and when either is in power for more than a few years that corruption becomes magnified. Were one or the other part to collapse, the result would be an America with only one dominant political part... and that would quickly become a very unhealthy situation. For all their grumbling and infighting, they do tend to keep each other semi-honest.
In Europe I see Leftist and especially Centrist ideology and policies continuing to be predominant. Unlike America, which is geographically isolated, Europe is by comparison geographically crowded. Were European nations to adopt the same "Right wing" views that are found in the US, I think it would not be long before the world was plunged into WW 3. Simply put, Europe cannot afford not to think as a community, they can't afford the same kind of competition with their neighbors that the US can.
Personally, I don't identify with either. I've been called a bleeding heart liberal by Republicans and a cold hearted bastard by Liberals... there's truth in both statements. At times I find the situation frustrating, other times amusing. Most of the time, given that I believe most in myself, I don't worry about it and if they ever get around to tearing each other apart... I'll simply wait til the dust settles and pick up the pieces. I am nothing if not a survivor.
Besides, there's always that little island in the south Pacific I've had my eye on... 
_____________________________
Padriag
A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer
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RE: The left and the right...... - 
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