Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Disobedience Beg


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: Disobedience Beg Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/22/2007 6:25:58 PM   
jaunty1


Posts: 102
Joined: 3/20/2007
Status: offline 		If my girl is displeasing, or deliberatly disobedient; begging for mercy or punishment is not going to get her very far. I would much rather hear a sincere apology along with the reasons WHY.
 
Live well,
 
Alex

_____________________________




(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/22/2007 6:39:36 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking


I believe we can agree that when slaves are displeasing or disobedient they should take responsibility for their actions and disclose said situation to their Dominant.
 
Next step; In your opinion, should the slave;
 
A)    Beg for mercy and forgiveness?
 
B)    Beg for punishment and cleansing?
 
C)    Other forms of retribution?
 
D)    All of the above?

Thank you,
curious


None of the above. I admit my wrong , apologize and accept whatever form of discipline Master hands out.

< Message edited by sweetnurseBBW -- 3/22/2007 6:40:32 PM >

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/22/2007 6:55:37 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		Using fast reply...

I don't think that begging has to be prolonged, dramatic, or all about the submissive/slave.  I see begging for remose as being a more significant form of an apology because to me begging becomes about demonstratively being prostrate to the person in the context of being apologetic (in particular when that sincere response is desired from the dominant).

C~

Edited to add: in particular in the case of disobedience, a strong display of submission and obedience is precisely what my owner desires (of course there is usually discussion of the why's on top of that).


< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 3/22/2007 6:57:13 PM >

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/22/2007 7:42:38 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
If I were to beg, it would make the situation all about me and my pain.  When it should be about him and his disappointment.


Took the words right out of my mouth (seems you're doing that a lot lately).

Beg for what?  To make life better for me???  I'm the one who screwed up.  I apologize, and trust me apologies are quite remorseful.  The rest is left up to him.  There was only one time he never said "I forgive you" when it was all said and done, and I never asked him to.  It was his right to choose to drop the incident but not forgive it.  I'm the one who disrespect him when I screw up, after all - who am I to ask for anything? 

I do, however, thank him when he lectures, punishes, absolves, forgives, and talks it through.   

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/22/2007 7:57:09 PM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline 		"Begging", is only gong to make matters worse around here.  A simple heart felt apology is enough.  Should it be something I am upset about then the best course is to simply leave me alone.  I do not like to get into discussions or make decisions while I am upset.  Give me time to collect myself and pull my thoughts together.  Begging or continuing on at that point would be counter productive for you.

Personally I am not into the whole punishment thing.  Lets see why it happened and what must be done to not repeat the problem.

K

< Message edited by PlayfulOne -- 3/22/2007 8:12:28 PM >

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/22/2007 8:06:51 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Say your sorry that the behavir hurt me, then prove that you've changed the behavior by your actions.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/22/2007 8:21:14 PM   
myobedience


Posts: 472
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking


I believe we can agree that when slaves are displeasing or disobedient they should take responsibility for their actions and disclose said situation to their Dominant.
 
Next step; In your opinion, should the slave;
 
A)    Beg for mercy and forgiveness?
 
B)    Beg for punishment and cleansing?
 
C)    Other forms of retribution?
 
D)    All of the above?

Thank you,
curious


kyra already gave the answer... but I will add this...

I am not interested in retribution or the my girls making their disobedience being about them.

It's about Correcting the Behavior!  Postive Consequences result in my pleasure at best and my contentment at worse.  Negative consequences result in my disappointment at best.. and at worse end the relationship.

It's simple.. Understand my Will and Obey it!  In the process to understand my will ... ask for clarification not justification.


I have been told I must be accountable for my disobedience.  I disobeyed once, so far,  and I was told I must give an accounting and "try to convince him I am sorry" prior to punishment.  But it will never do away with punishment.
Understanding his will comes from open communication if I seem not to understand.  Once I fully undersand... I must (am expected to) obey his will.
 
Trying to convince him I am sorry was to say the least a lesson in humility for me.  It was extremely emotional for me and after wards he held me to let me know, he was happy with me for taking my punishment.
 
But...then he did something to correct further behaviour.  I was to kneel before an empty wall for a certain amount of time and incease it every day.
Within 4 days, he was sufficiently pleased with my learning.  Will I disobey in that particular thing ever gain?  Hell no!  He fully corrected the behaviour, but I also agree to obey.  That, to us, is the crux.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/22/2007 8:22:07 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		i have to say that my experience seems to be similar to kyra's. for me to beg for forgiveness, absolution, etc. seems sort of anathema to His way of approaching d/s. generally, if i have erred, we discuss it - occasionally He will provide some way to change the behavior, if necessary, as He sees fit. He has never withheld forgiveness if i have honestly admitted to something and apologized. begging, in our relationship, is generally something done when i desire something sexually and He is enjoying teasing me (just like corporal punishment pretty much only exists in our relationship as play punishment). the knowledge of disappointing Him in some way usually takes care of any repeated negative behavior, and generally, we solve this issue by talking, rather than approaching it from a traditional standpoint of punishment.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/22/2007 8:24:18 PM   
myobedience


Posts: 472
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
If I were to beg, it would make the situation all about me and my pain.  When it should be about him and his disappointment.
 

This is most excellent kyra, thanks for the insight

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/22/2007 8:33:12 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		To the OP...Disclosure...apology...reason for "whatever"..and await consequences.Hopefully communication and verbal discourse will fit in there somewhere...Tempting

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/22/2007 10:16:26 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking
Next step; In your opinion, should the slave;
 A)    Beg for mercy and forgiveness?
 B)    Beg for punishment and cleansing?

As someone said previously, I don't do retribution. Neither does Sir. It's not EVER about "getting even." The fact is that D/s relationships are based upon a power exchange that results in power inequality. There is no even.
When a sub disobeys, they are corrected.   Being honest about whatever happened is a vital step.  Offering a sincere apology that shows an acceptance of responsibility and consequence, a true realization of what was done wrong, and remorse/regret/willingness to change the behavior in the future goes a long way. If the apology is for...for instance...using a curse word, when the issue is disrespect in public, and making me look bad, the apology shows me what area we need to talk about and where their understanding doesn't mesh with mine. Accepting what consequences I set is the next step. My relationship with Sir is the same way.

However, I will say that sometimes I have had so much guilt, been so stuck on my failure, that I needed something tangible to let me let go. And then I have gone to Sir and requested a punishment, offering that reason as the basis for my request. I expect the same of any sub of mine. I am more than willing to set an ordeal that they might overcome it, and feel that they have earned forgiveness. The punishment serves as a tangible event to focus on, and through enduring it (or accomplishing it successfully) they are able to let go of their guilt, having paid the penance.

As for forgiveness, I don't mind if someone begs me for it. But, as in anything I control in a power exchange relationship, the final decision is mine and I expect it to be accepted gracefully.

~E

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/23/2007 4:32:52 AM   
StellaByStarlite


Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

What Kyra said.  Too many subs are already too dramatic and obsessed with making mistakes and behavior problems.  The more you can make it "not a big deal, just something to work on" the better.


What Kyra and Lucky said, lol. The Mister is in favor of having more general rules that allow for more flexibility and less error. If I fail, he doesn't view it as "disobedience" as much as "okay... something's not working here, let's try something else instead"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/23/2007 5:57:12 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		None of the above. We talk the problem over like adults. I don't go around deliberately trying to annoy him but sometimes things happen. And so far it has always been due to miscommunication.

Either he's not clear enough about what he's looking for or I thought I understood but didn't, and sometimes I simply haven't been able to do what he wanted because he forgot about a conflict in my schedule.

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/23/2007 6:26:50 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		It is not that simple, sometimes, as slave disobedient, Master punish. I have a simple, short set of rules for the day to day stuff. If she breaks those rules, she must tell me (which is one of the rules) and accept whatever punishment I decide. In these cases punishment is likely a spanking, then a discussion about why it was given and why her behavior was inappropriate. The result of the bad behavior is quick, immediate and over with.

But there are times when she disobeys not because it is what she wants, but because she is dealilng with powerfully deep issues within herself. It's not that she wants to disobey, but her inner demons come forward and she loses control. These issues are about my leading her out of her past hurts, helping her overcome the demons of her past. This is not a punishment event. It is a time for us to talk about the misstep and get her to understand, if she is too close to the problem, why she is doing what she is doing.

As her Master, one of my jobs is to help her grow as a person. That includes helping her overcome her demons. I would rarely, if ever, punish when dealing with these deeper issues.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/23/2007 6:56:16 AM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

But there are times when she disobeys not because it is what she wants, but because she is dealilng with powerfully deep issues within herself. It's not that she wants to disobey, but her inner demons come forward and she loses control. These issues are about my leading her out of her past hurts, helping her overcome the demons of her past. This is not a punishment event. It is a time for us to talk about the misstep and get her to understand, if she is too close to the problem, why she is doing what she is doing.

As her Master, one of my jobs is to help her grow as a person. That includes helping her overcome her demons. I would rarely, if ever, punish when dealing with these deeper issues.

Namaste, Sir Dominic


~interesting~...
 
So, iyo, would a sign of dealing with deep issues "demons" be the same repeated habitual defiance? 
 
Or is a repeated issue of  disobedience a sign of still doing as the slave wants or wishes?
 
Or, I guess, could be both.

_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"


(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/23/2007 8:20:07 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		CS, it depends on the individual. I should clarify, my slave is extremely eager to please and to obey. She is not the kind of high maintenance slave that is constantly testing limits.

So when she slips, it is almost always because of her inability to cope with deep hurts from her past. She is definitely not doing what she wants or wishes; she has a great need to overcome and grow beyond these burdons.

That is why I distinguish these issues from common ones. Does that explain it better?

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/23/2007 12:26:35 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking


I believe we can agree that when slaves are displeasing or disobedient they should take responsibility for their actions and disclose said situation to their Dominant.
 
Next step; In your opinion, should the slave;
 
A)    Beg for mercy and forgiveness?
 
B)    Beg for punishment and cleansing?
 
C)    Other forms of retribution?
 
D)    All of the above?

Thank you,
curious


I don't ask for forgiveness, let alone beg for it. I've never quite understood that; it seems a bit much to piss someone off and then start asking for something.

I don't ask or beg for punishment either. He decides if I get punished, not me.  I say I'm sorry, that's it.

There are fixed penalties for certain things, which I am already aware of. I don't say sorry if I rack up a penalty, there's no point really, it's just a case of not having made the mark and accepting it.....plus, I'm generally not sorry at those times, I'm usually more annoyed with myself.

agirl

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/23/2007 3:01:05 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Oh, and as for repeated disobedience. Then it isn't something I can do and he's set me up to fail. Which he wouldn't do. But demanding I do something which he already knows I won't be able to is emotionally abusive to me and not something I can tolerate.

We talk about the problem the first time. If he ignores the fact that I can't do it and insists I manage to do it without finding a solution to the problem I would lose respect for him. I wouldn't accept punishment for a problem that he couldn't solve and decided to blame me for when I had already laid it on his lap as I am supposed to.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/23/2007 11:07:30 PM   
Rafters


Posts: 266
Joined: 3/9/2006
Status: offline 		At the end of the day it comes down to why the sub is being disobedient. Sometimes it's bratty attention whoring, sometimes its a genuine mistake and sometimes and most terribly it's the sub passive/aggressively saying they want out!.

Remember SSC and RACK both revolve around consent, not just subbie consenting to her Doms ownership, but also the Dom consenting to own his subbie.
If subbie's going to be an unconcensual PITAS, then sooner the Dom is aware of this and can release her back into the vanilla wilds, the better for it is for both.

Preemptive apologies from the subbie are important, they tell the master whatever the cause, it wasn't because she wants out. the effort and body language she puts into the apology tell her master the effort and direction she wants things to progress.

Remember Dom's, communication goes both way, spank her in morse code

< Message edited by Rafters -- 3/23/2007 11:11:28 PM >

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Disobedience Beg - 3/24/2007 12:54:06 PM   
gerssub


Posts: 1
Joined: 11/2/2006
Status: offline 		My Disappointment at her behaviour is her worst punishment

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: Disobedience Beg Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078