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RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/28/2007 8:00:04 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Welcome b12345, wonderful post.  I agree with most of what you have stated.
Especially when it comes to wants and needs.
I have come to terms with a lot of that lately, and it is actually a disease in the Western world.
The media has a lot to do with this, everything must be the latest, new, name brand, bigger,
better, shinier, latest fashions, cars, homes, the best of everything.
One of the good things about the new recession/soon maybe to be depression that we are in, is that
many people are going to have to learn that they can live with less and values may change for the better.

_____________________________

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To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


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"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to b12345)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/28/2007 10:56:02 PM   
ferryman777


Posts: 198
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		Well, why not round up these 'baby boomers' and....gass em....make way for the younguns. What the hell, they paid their taxes, now reached the so-called' golden years.....they're old now, fuck em, just gass em, who needs them anyhow; just a burden to the government and the young.

About the 1 in 5...how about your royal family throw in some bucks...er  ...shillings in the pot. I mean, your queen is the biggest slum lord in the world.

(in reply to DCWoody)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/28/2007 11:00:20 PM   
ferryman777


Posts: 198
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		live without a cellphone....the blackberry, or the pokie dot one...you must be out of your mind woman. Give up the Hummer, what will the mechanics do for a living...Arnold has six of them....and I can't have one too...boo...boo (crying here)

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 1:28:58 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody
quote:

seeksfemslave
"DCwoody perleese, the male offspring of casual sexual encounters frequently, at adolescence, are the cause of mayhem and social dislocation, the female offspring just produce more sprogs"


True to a small extent, but after adolesence they get jobs (seriously, check out the unemployment stats), I really disagree with you that there are very many people at all who are encouraged to have kdis by the welfare system.....


We obviosly see things differently and no point in going round in the same old circles......but with regard to official stats.....

For the town of Slough official central government stats. showed approx. 300 either asylum seekers or immigrants living there forget which. In fact 3000 approx new NI numbers had been processed by the town. NI numbers are required to get most forms of welfare.
Number of Polish immigrants predicted  approx 13000 per year.
Actually arrived in the first year approx 120000 possibly more. Not sure exactly.

Immigration at its current level is causing ,and will cause more,  heavy costs due to education, health, housing, law and order especially translation services and asylum tribunals. Cherie Blair loves them, loadsa money for her.

Dont forget the one legged Bulgarian whose business plan said he was a roof repairer. Could be true I suppose, see Heather Mills Mrs P McArtney and her back flips on the dance floor lol

(in reply to DCWoody)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 3:22:26 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		The *rules* of poverty have changed over time.

When I was a child, we woke to ice on the inside of the windows, wore socks on our hands instead of gloves, wore vests, socks and cardigans to bed, was glad of a sibling to cuddle up to, almost always wore hand-me-downs or clothes Mum had made, ate food my Dad had grown,  use elastic bands to keep our socks up, cut the toes out of too small shoes to stretch the wear a little longer and knew what it meant to be hungry.............we didn't think we lived in poverty, we were poor and living within our means.
We saw children and families much worse off than us and some much better off. We were well-kept and loved children.

In today's terms, we would be described as poverty-stricken.

agirl

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 6:15:41 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ferryman777

Well, why not round up these 'baby boomers' and....gass em....make way for the younguns. What the hell, they paid their taxes, now reached the so-called' golden years.....they're old now, fuck em, just gass em, who needs them anyhow; just a burden to the government and the young.

About the 1 in 5...how about your royal family throw in some bucks...er  ...shillings in the pot. I mean, your queen is the biggest slum lord in the world.


scarry enuff that COULD happen!  

it would become a citezens "duty" to die.    ps- ur posts contain interesting ideas...

roger

(in reply to ferryman777)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 9:30:55 AM   
JackAnory


Posts: 82
Joined: 3/17/2007
From: SEUK
Status: offline 		I read this statistic also yes very depressing it is. Good thing we have our health though I say.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 10:29:58 AM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		"Immigration at its current level is causing ,and will cause more,  heavy costs due to education, health, housing, law and order especially translation services and asylum tribunals."

The average immigrant pays more in tax and costs the govt less than than the average person born here.


I don't see how I can put it any clearer than that.



In 2002-3 the govt recieved income of £7,203  per immigrant compared to £6,861  per non-immigrant.

The average immigrant cost the govt  £7,277: non-immigrants £7,753.

In other words, each immigrant costs £818 less than each non-immigrant. It is not possible to make any kind of sensible economic argument against immigration to the UK.


(in reply to JackAnory)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 2:05:17 PM   
ferryman777


Posts: 198
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		Hey guy, thanks for the good words. Scary stuff indeed. And yes, it could become a citizen's duty to die, when their tax paying days are over. The movies...Solent Green; Logan's Run; are just two I can recall at the moment. 'Seconds', is another good flick...the best Rock Hudson ever did, low budget, Blk&Wht.

BTW...the nazis produced documentaries, films, held broadcasts on radio, of just this; the infirmed being a dredge, a burden to society, and the young generations. The theme being, showing a young couple, wanting to buy a house, but their money had to be spent taking care of their aged parents....'how much more would you have, to buy a 'home' (you always buy a home; and always sell a house); for your children...if you didn't have to care for your sick mother.'

It's not a new concept, but one that has been used in the past.

This government is for the corporations, and the elite; the working class are shit...always was, always will be. So, why the banter of why the government isn't doing their job....they are.

Everyone here seems to think the numbers really mean something, and government is for the people; well they don't, and it isn't.  We are a herd, the common folk, we are treated like livestock, fit for funneling cash into and through society, we are educated with the standard low standard educational system, programmed, if you will, to be good subjects, citizens, taxpayers, slaves for the elite; and this is what these responses demonstrate;.... the teaching and programing for the masses.

On a TV show...point counter point.....the discussion was about entering a war with Iraq, the Bush One Iraq One war.  A senator remarked that we could expect a 30% faltality rate at invasion; which is acceptable number.

He was called on his statement by the comentator'  "acceptable Senator, if you are not one of the 30%." 

All in all; it's all bull fucking Bushshit. Votes do not matter, Bush proved that, people do not matter, jobs are given to China; they have not created any industry except for what Bush has given them.
Gatt Nafta, no body apparently wanted it, except Bush, and we got it. The Iraq war, no one apparently wanted it, except Bush, and gasoline, how cheap is it now. 3.08 today at the pump.

Oh, I apologise...Bush wanted it, and the status quo on here, and the like. Sorry.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 2:05:37 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Just out of interest where did you get those figures from. A government spokesperson recenty admitted that they had no idea how many illegal asylum seekers  there are  in the country. Not a clue he said.

Your stats may well be accurate due   to money spent on 15 year old girls who have children to bring up.

No sensible economic argument ? Are you an employer who wants to drive down wages and get people  working all hours under the Sun for a pittance. More likely a Liberal academic supported by the taxpayer. Thats is a real cost.

Schools where 56 different languages are spoken, very few pupils speak English, remedial expense has to be met to correct this. If the indigenous white kids were interested it would disrupt their education. Since they are not, it wont.

This is a good thing since it it cheaper to finance a dropout than send him thru' 3rd level education, with spurious grades all the way then employ him as a local government expert.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/29/2007 2:17:15 PM >

(in reply to DCWoody)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 2:22:03 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
The *rules* of poverty have changed over time.
When I was a child etc etc etc
agirl


Get out of it.
When I saw this I thought you were 90 years old and a young girl in 20's when there was real poverty and desperation.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 2:43:42 PM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		Those figures were taken from Bremner Bird and Fortune.

And I am talking about legal immigration, bringing illegal immigrants into this discussion is like starting going on about underage lesbian sex, or lesbian rape, when I say lesbian sex is fun to watch.....

Your last point falls apart on the facts that I'm neither an employer or an academic (I am a realistic liberal though, a right wing liberal), and that average disposable income has risen by more 20% over the last 10 years in real terms, and that's even with the large tax increases, so you can hardly claim wages are being driven down....

In future I would recommend trying to counter my points, assuming you disagree with them.....rather than trying to change what I am saying, making daily mailesque exaggerations and speculating about my private life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Just out of interest where did you get those figures from. A government spokesperson recenty admitted that they had no idea how many illegal asylum seekers  there are  in the country. Not a clue he said.

Assuming your stats are accurate, which may be true due for example due to money spent on 15 year old girls who have children to bring up.

No sensible economic argument ? Are you an employer who wants to drive down wages and get people  working all hours under the Sun for a pittance. More likely a Liberal academic supported by the taxpayer. Thats is a real cost.





ahh, you've edited your post while I was writing :)

nevertheless, if you can find "Schools where 56 different languages are spoken" I'd be impresssed, and if you can find a school where "very few pupils speak English" I'd be forced to suggest that you should have limited your search to the UK.

< Message edited by DCWoody -- 3/29/2007 2:49:10 PM >

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 2:56:19 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		DCwoody gave a "sauce" for his stats as...
Those figures were taken from Bremner Bird and Fortune.

Isnt this a TV comedy show.

My comments, tho' directed at you were in fact generic, ie applicable to types who argue as you do, and also accurate.NO?

Average disposable incomes may well have risen in real terms, but the real employment base has collapsed catastrophically.
At least GP's , first line NHS doctors, now earn 100K a year,. So that helps I suppose.

With regard to my comment on schools, I should think Tower Hamlets, London 
and districts of Bradford and Leicester would easily fit the bill.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/29/2007 3:01:41 PM >

(in reply to DCWoody)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 4:40:50 PM   
ferryman777


Posts: 198
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		Hi, without appearing insensitive to the poor in proverty......But,.... I could not care less what is going on in your UK.  Who gives a fiddler's danm about the ....pooooor british. Get rid of that do nothing fat cat monarchy you guys seem so worshipingly enthralled with. Sell off your Queen Bee's shit, stop feeding and funneling your money to a bunch of your 'royal parasites'; give the proceeds to the poooor homeless british.

Who cares...you wanted T. Blair, and you got him; so what's your gripe.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 5:39:51 PM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		Yes, BBF is a satirical tv show.....but those stats were from one of their serious moments....and I used them as a source that even you could not suggest is biased in favour of the govt.

If you want to suggest your own figures feel free.

The statement sugesting I was either an employer or a liberal academic type was not accurate in the commonly accepted sense, no.

If you meant accurate as in there exists within the UK liberal academic types who agree with my view on this, then yes it was entirely accurate, and it is also entirely accurate for me to say that you are almost certainly a member of the BNP.

'Real Employment base' is not a term I am familiar with.....and google only throws up 6 results for it.......however I can guess roughly at it's meaning and know more than enough about unemployment/in work rates over the past decade to remain extremely sceptical about its having 'collapsed catastrophically'.

I am in Leicester and I have to ask......what planet are you on?

56 languages in one school.......well, possibly, though I doubt it......but hardly anyone speaking English? don't talk such rubbish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

DCwoody gave a "sauce" for his stats as...
Those figures were taken from Bremner Bird and Fortune.

Isnt this a TV comedy show.

My comments, tho' directed at you were in fact generic, ie applicable to types who argue as you do, and also accurate.NO?

Average disposable incomes may well have risen in real terms, but the real employment base has collapsed catastrophically.
At least GP's , first line NHS doctors, now earn 100K a year,. So that helps I suppose.

With regard to my comment on schools, I should think Tower Hamlets, London 
and districts of Bradford and Leicester would easily fit the bill.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/29/2007 6:55:51 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ferryman777

Hi, without appearing insensitive to the poor in proverty......But,.... I could not care less what is going on in your UK.  Who gives a fiddler's danm about the ....pooooor british. Get rid of that do nothing fat cat monarchy you guys seem so worshipingly enthralled with. Sell off your Queen Bee's shit, stop feeding and funneling your money to a bunch of your 'royal parasites'; give the proceeds to the poooor homeless british.

Who cares...you wanted T. Blair, and you got him; so what's your gripe.


Various peoples of  counties- need to compare notes.  The elite, for instance tried to privatise water; otehrs seen the horrid idea. and it was a heads up.

Now more then ever we need to know what is happening with everyday folks from otehr countries.  

The powers that be would rather we watch corporate media- well- Ill take the world of the commen man; sooner the the tv set.

converely- ppl in elsewhere should be aware as to what happens in America...if it plays here- if could be knocking at THEIR door.

The wealthy 1% love that we are enthralled in titalation and non-issues.

However- if every one of us woke up- and demanded better governance- it would happen.

We could start by cancelling cable/satilite tv en mass....


(in reply to ferryman777)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 12:58:23 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		DCwoody:
"Hardly anyone speaking English in certain schools in the UK" is a little hyperbolic but the point that there exist schools where a minority of pupils have English has their first language is true. I  live quote close to a school where in the playground whites are certainly in the minority. See it with my own tired eyes. Thus all the compromises on what can and cant be taught or what clothes can cant be worn become necessary.

By real employment base I meant those people who in the main are not dependant on government finance and preferably produce things.
So for example if you, generic you, worked at Peugot (sp) or Leyland Rover and the firms close and you end up working as a driver for the local council, you will be part of the collapse AND your wage will have diminished. NO ? Thats what I meant.

Productive employment has reduced, Bean counting and Traffic Light installing has increased QED.
By the way if people on average earn so much in real terms why is credit card debt so large ?

As I understand it Leicester is scheduled to be the first UK  Asian majority city in the UK. NO?
Or is it somewhere oop North ?

With regard to the BNP, now that the BBC has condescended to give them 15 secs of air time I did hear one of their spokespersons make the following point.
If multi culturalism is such a good thing the people would know it, not have to be repeatedly told so.
I say....Especially by trendy other world types who appear on programmes of social analysis, usually on the BBC.


< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/30/2007 1:07:10 AM >

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 1:27:10 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
The *rules* of poverty have changed over time.
When I was a child etc etc etc
agirl


Get out of it.
When I saw this I thought you were 90 years old and a young girl in 20's when there was real poverty and desperation.


Quite. It wasn't poverty and it wasn't desperation and it wasn't tough at all, which is what I said.

agirl


< Message edited by agirl -- 3/30/2007 1:29:01 AM >

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 2:02:47 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ferryman777

About the 1 in 5...how about your royal family throw in some bucks...er  ...shillings in the pot. I mean, your queen is the biggest slum lord in the world.


I doubt it. That is more likely to members of corporate America who are far richer and far more corrupt. While one mightn't believe in the monarchy, it has too many political restrictions and to be corrupt. Corporate America, far from being under political scrutiny, buys politicians.

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to ferryman777)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 2:05:44 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

DCwoody:
"Hardly anyone speaking English in certain schools in the UK" is a little hyperbolic but the point that there exist schools where a minority of pupils have English has their first language is true. I  live quote close to a school where in the playground whites are certainly in the minority. See it with my own tired eyes. Thus all the compromises on what can and cant be taught or what clothes can cant be worn become necessary.


My daughter used to go to a school of 500 children when she was a junior in London, there were three white children in the whole school.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 40
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