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RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 4:32:02 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		DCwoody:
Another QED based on personal experience. Any comment?

Agirl:
You were a young girl from say1960 to 1974. ie from  approx 4-18 years old.
You claim you went hungry then. ?

I remember when I was a kid opening my Xmas presents very early in the morning in a stone cold bedroom.
Made me the wimp I am today. lol
Also I once saw Father Xmas, he didnt have a red suit or white beared. I've been a cynic ever since. lol

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 8:18:34 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Ever since John Glenn went back into space I was praying that NASA and the U.S. Government would finally take my "cost-cutting" plan seriously and devise an economical way to jettison the elderly into the sun....Think how much money would be saved and could be utilized on more worthwhile things.

Just an idea I have been toying with.

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RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 10:17:13 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave


Agirl:
You were a young girl from say1960 to 1974. ie from  approx 4-18 years old.
You claim you went hungry then. ?

I remember when I was a kid opening my Xmas presents very early in the morning in a stone cold bedroom.
Made me the wimp I am today. lol
Also I once saw Father Xmas, he didnt have a red suit or white beared. I've been a cynic ever since. lol



My words were that we *knew what it meant to be hungry* which is slightly different to *going hungry*.  We weren't starving.  There certainly wasn't an abundance of grub, though. Try not to make more out of it than is there.

agirl

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 10:29:40 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave


Agirl:
You were a young girl from say1960 to 1974. ie from  approx 4-18 years old.
You claim you went hungry then. ?

I remember when I was a kid opening my Xmas presents very early in the morning in a stone cold bedroom.
Made me the wimp I am today. lol
Also I once saw Father Xmas, he didnt have a red suit or white beared. I've been a cynic ever since. lol



My words were that we *knew what it meant to be hungry* which is slightly different to *going hungry*.  We weren't starving.  There certainly wasn't an abundance of grub, though. Try not to make more out of it than is there.

agirl



I remember Thursday 'hard-up' day where you ate what was left in the larder and sometimes food on Thursday was served up in some strange combinations. I had hand-me-downs, one of the problems of having an older brother and I remember having to put cardboard in my shoes when the soles had a hole worn in them. Wasn't much good in the rain though.

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RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 10:56:39 AM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		"DCwoody:
"Hardly anyone speaking English in certain schools in the UK" is a little hyperbolic but the point that there exist schools where a
minority of pupils have English has their first language is true."

Quite probably....your point?

"I  live quote close to a school where in the playground whites are certainly in the minority. See it with my own tired eyes."

I walked past a school where I didn't see a single white kid just a few hours ago.....again what's your point?

"Thus all the compromises on what can and cant be taught or what clothes can cant be worn become necessary."

Ohhhhhh.....that's your point.....that certain subjects can't be taught without a white majortiy of pupils.


Wait....what?

"By real employment base I meant those people who in the main are not dependant on government finance and preferably produce things.
So for example if you, generic you, worked at Peugot (sp) or Leyland Rover and the firms close and you end up working as a driver for the local council, you will be part of the collapse AND your wage will have diminished. NO ? Thats what I meant."

And my counter point is to point out the inaccuracy.....average wages have not reduced with the move into the tertiary sector.
Average wages have increased dramatically.

So.....what's your point?

"Productive employment has reduced, Bean counting and Traffic Light installing has increased QED."

So?

"By the way if people on average earn so much in real terms why is credit card debt so large ?"

Because people are idiots and spend too much money.
If you want to dispute the wage rises go try to find some figures that say differently.

"As I understand it Leicester is scheduled to be the first UK  Asian majority city in the UK. NO?
Or is it somewhere oop North ?"

No idea, what's your point?

"With regard to the BNP, now that the BBC has condescended to give them 15 secs of air time I did hear one of their spokespersons make the following point.
If multi culturalism is such a good thing the people would know it, not have to be repeatedly told so.
I say....Especially by trendy other world types who appear on programmes of social analysis, usually on the BBC."

The BNP is gradually attracting more and more support because (in my opinion) they're willing to tackle issues no-one else will due to the PC culture.....but I still think the vast majortiy of people do not regard BNP members in a good light, to put it mildly.


Would you like to restate your points? because I'm having trouble seeeing anything you've written to counter my statements that:

A) No way in hell are 1 in 5 people in the UK in poverty.

B) Immigration is a good thing for the UKs economy

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 10:58:56 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Well I remember asking for and getting a bike before either Agirl or Meatcleaver were born. Plenty of food to eat as well.

I come from a modest working class background, so your stories simply dont jell with my experiences. Mind you I lived and still do live in what was once a very prosperous industrial city with plenty of highly payed high skill jobs. See, shows the virtue of making things. Not fashionable but still, along with others like it produced the real wealth that kept upper middle class administrators living at they standards they thought they deserved.

All allowed to fall by the wayside I'm afraid. 

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/30/2007 11:02:28 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 11:01:49 AM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave


Agirl:
You were a young girl from say1960 to 1974. ie from  approx 4-18 years old.
You claim you went hungry then. ?

I remember when I was a kid opening my Xmas presents very early in the morning in a stone cold bedroom.
Made me the wimp I am today. lol
Also I once saw Father Xmas, he didnt have a red suit or white beared. I've been a cynic ever since. lol



My words were that we *knew what it meant to be hungry* which is slightly different to *going hungry*.  We weren't starving.  There certainly wasn't an abundance of grub, though. Try not to make more out of it than is there.

agirl



I remember Thursday 'hard-up' day where you ate what was left in the larder and sometimes food on Thursday was served up in some strange combinations. I had hand-me-downs, one of the problems of having an older brother and I remember having to put cardboard in my shoes when the soles had a hole worn in them. Wasn't much good in the rain though.


 Yes, we had LOTS of vegetables to pad meals out and also had those days when meals were a bit of a mix up.  We used to think about food quite a lot, too. We ate rabbit a lot, which I remember was really lovely but had loads of teeny bones to pick out.

I also had an older brother whose clothes got handed down to me, luckily I was only too pleased, as I wanted to be a boy so badly. It was far better than wearing the frocks that Mum made.

agirl

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 11:47:29 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		DCwoody:
You ask me to explain why I think immigration at its current levl is not good for the economy. Well.....

Education:
Remedial  measures required especially due to language problems and attempts at cultural integration, thus disadvantaging white children and confusing them eg when teachers try to wear the full face mask or Wintervals or Diwali are celebrated while Xmas is seen as divisive.

Health:
Increases in HIV and a resurgence of TB. Increases in Hepatitus. C I think.

Health tourists eg women who arrive ready to give birth. This is not bar room gossip. A department was setup in the NHS to try to recover costs. Even the BBC showed someone refusing to make any financial contribution for his treatment. We are not talking Accident  and Emergency here.
R Biggs, tho' of course English is good exaple of the type. Only returned to UK when he was sick and needed medical treatment. R Biggs is one of the 1963 Great Train Robbers.

Housing:
Local people are disadvantaged and preference given to immigrants. Again not bar room tittle tattle. I saw a local councillor in Oldham I think admit as much and give it as one reason for the animosity that exists across the racial divides. This and the grants given for  community improvements etc, being skewed towards immigrants.

Law and order:
Criminals gangs importing women and forcing them into the vice trade. A major arrest was made recently in B'ham. Also the violence caused by  racial hostility, Black on Black, Black On Asian ,Black/Asian on White   reported on a daily basis.. Kurds hate the Pakistanis. Afros hate the Somalis.  Rise in anti semitic activity.

The costs of translators in trials and tribunals  has recently become an issue.

Employment:
It has just been admitted, tho' known for a long time that immigrants are driving down unskilled wages of the white population.
Frank Field was the first major politician I heard mention this.

This is just my post 24 padded out a bit.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/30/2007 11:51:16 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 12:35:00 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Well, that's your experience.  I wrote about a part of mine, and as time went on, we became better off. The point I was actually making was that by today's standards,  it would seen as * poverty* when in fact, we didn't suffer at all.

agirl

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 4:08:02 PM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		"DCwoody:
You ask me to explain why I think immigration at its current levl is not good for the economy. Well.....

Education:
Remedial  measures required especially due to language problems and attempts at cultural integration, thus disadvantaging white children and confusing them eg when teachers try to wear the full face mask or Wintervals or Diwali are celebrated while Xmas is seen as divisive."

ah yes.....all those eastern europeans celebrating Diwali.....you're about 30 years out of date man, and even if you weren't.......how is people celebrating Eid or whatever harming the economy? And I've alreay mentioned that I think you're talking complete crap about the language problems.


IIII EDIT: after looking into the numbers I take bcak the statement "ah yes.....all those eastern europeans celebrating Diwali.....you're about 30 years out of date man,"

Luckily for me it doesn't effect my point :) :EDIT IIII

"Health:
Increases in HIV and a resurgence of TB. Increases in Hepatitus. C I think."

I'm not absolutely certain but I seem to recall that the HIV increase in the UK these days was mainnly among the straight white population who don't use the right precautions as they assume it doesn't apply to them. The other two are true, but that is mostly from asylum seekers and illegals....not immigrants

"Health tourists eg women who arrive ready to give birth. This is not bar room gossip. A department was setup in the NHS to try to recover costs. Even the BBC showed someone refusing to make any financial contribution for his treatment. We are not talking Accident  and Emergency here."

Health tourists are NOT immigrants.

"Housing:
Local people are disadvantaged and preference given to immigrants. Again not bar room tittle tattle. I saw a local councillor in Oldham I think admit as much and give it as one reason for the animosity that exists across the racial divides. This and the grants given for  community improvements etc, being skewed towards immigrants."

I have no idea about that, though it sounds a suspect suggestion to me.....maybe you could come up with some figures?

"Law and order:
Criminals gangs importing women and forcing them into the vice trade. A major arrest was made recently in B'ham."

These are mostly illegal immigrants.

"Also the violence caused by  racial hostility, Black on Black, Black On Asian ,Black/Asian on White  reported on a daily basis.. Kurds hate the Pakistanis. Afros hate the Somalis.  Rise in anti semitic activity."

The gang culture embraced by many young black men and more and more asians too, is predominantly 2nd generation, not immigrant.

I can't think of much economic cost associated with the traditional rivalries you suggest.

"The costs of translators in trials and tribunals  has recently become an issue."

Yeah, but that's mostly asylum seekers, not immigrants

"Employment:
It has just been admitted, tho' known for a long time that immigrants are driving down unskilled wages of the white population.
Frank Field was the first major politician I heard mention this."

I have said already if you want to argue about wage changed then have some figures to back up your claims.....and I imagine focusing on the lowest wages will not aid your cause what with the minimum wage having been introduced and considerably increased.


Please try to stay on the same subject.......ie immigrations effect on the economy, and preferably back up your claims next time.....

Or just admit you're wrong :D

< Message edited by DCWoody -- 3/30/2007 4:18:20 PM >

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 5:39:52 PM   
ferryman777


Posts: 198
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		I didn't say don't be aware of what is happening in other countries... I agree, we must know, no opposion there; I just said, I don't care the brits have their proverty, we have our own proverty here. Our president has spent us into bankruptcy, with his war; why not focus on the US, as I was told in another thread 'about some sailors being highjacked',... to mine my own business, it's a UK problem; in another thread someone  inferred, they don't give a rat's ass about what is going on in Venesula.... So....turn about should be fair play; evidently it's not. The highjacked sailors are a UK problem, so....isn't the British poverity their problem also.....or do they want another loan they're not going to pay back.

Who cares....better care about here, when your gasoline hits five bucks + per; when your taxes are raised to pay for Bush's war; oh, did I mention the housing market is about in ruin with more foreclosures in american history; the auto industry in China, as is every other industry, low wages, increasing costs, more people disemployed....and I'm going to worry about some poor Limeys.

You're right, if it plays here, it'll be knocking at their door too. Yes, now more than ever we need a strong GOOD government; with HONEST people of INTEGRITY...but we won't get it.

A Book:  Bushworld: A scorching illumination of the Bush administration's fractured adventurers in empire building.

A Book: The Bush Hater's Handbook; A guide to the most apalling presidency of the past 100 years. This book summarizes, details and bewails all of the more important Bush administrations outrages scandals, and deceits, and some of the lesser ones.

A Book: American Dynasty; Aristocracy, fortune, and the politics of deciet; the book reveals how 4 generations of the Bush have garnered increasing power since WW2, solidifying their position in America and the global communitees.

Another: The Immaclate Deception

Something else to read besides the Clinton Chronicals. Oh, opps! I dropped my bong, drat.

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RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/30/2007 5:49:08 PM   
ferryman777


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Status: offline 		Well, she is, but you are free to doubt; Lily white, free of corruption, political resrictions ?....believe as you will, The corporations...no arguement there. our USofA gov. has political restrictions too, and they are free of corruption too.   Lily white.....opps, there I go again, I dropped my bong; drat.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/31/2007 1:31:32 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		DCwoody:
With regard to costs whats the difference between an immigrant and an asylum seeker and a Health Tourist.
Diwali is a Hindu celebration.

Your appear to believe that all is progressing well on the immigration front. I dont.
If you "get" the guarded response that the political establishment is now making you will detect that the numbers involved are raising concerns.
Why for instance have limits been considered for Bulgarian and Hungarian immigrants.

Another "sauce" from me.
In todays Daily Telegraph, I quote
Polish pupils to be given anti Racist classes. No added cost there then.

Extracts from the article...
....Poland is mono cultural....
....Their children dont speak English. There's a surprise.
...Polish children are put in schools where ethnic minorities are in the majority
...Polish children refuse to sit next to or bully other immigrant children.
The Polish Educational society is to run the classes. Who finaces them ?

You are wrong about both HIV and TB increases.
The govnt. chief medical officer was quoted as saying that 75% of newly diagnosed
cases of HIV were in  recently arrived immigrants and visitors to/from sub Saharan Africa.
Your point about straights and HIV is a typical deceit used by PC liberals. They quote % increases so that an increase of 10 from a population of 100 can sound worse than an increase 20 from a population of 300.
100= heteros already having HIV 300 = homos already with it. As an example.
This also ignores the fact that 100 is a miniscule proportion of X where X = the total hetero population. The homo population is estimated to be 10% of X.
I hope you "get" the maths.

Many immigrants illegal or not get jobs paying well below the minimum wage, which itself is very low and those "on it" have just seen their tax bill increase by Gordon crypto socialist Brown.

2nd generation children of  immigrants being involved in hi profile crime sounds distinctly ominous to me ! How about the costs required for the projected construction of more prisons. Money could surely be better spent.

Travellers to/from the Haj in Saudi Arabia have received official govnt warnings regarding the dangers of contracted TB there. Many Eastern European immigrants are likewise infected.

At curent rates of immigration Housing costs alone will spiral out of control Wait for the reaction when Poll tax continues its remorseless upward rise.
Ditto water costs. Tho' other factors are also present here.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/31/2007 2:11:41 AM >

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RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/31/2007 2:22:17 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Your appear to believe that all is progressing well on the immigration front. I dont.
If you "get" the guarded response that the political establishment is now making you will detect that the numbers involved are raising concerns.
Why for instance have limits been considered for Bulgarian and Hungarian immigrants.



That will be simple economics. The British economy could soak up 600,000 Polish migrant workers and remain a functioning economy. We're now on the brink of tipping the balance too far, thus the attempt to limit the amount of immigrants from Hungary and Romania. The studies conducted to date suggest Romanian and Hungarian migrant workers will head for Italy rather than Britain due to a similar climate and culture. Armed with this knowledge, you and your BNP pals can now take a break and have a good nights sleep.
 
It's always other people with you Seeks ain't it.....the foreigners, the immigrants, the working class, the young, the lefties, the PC brigade (whoever they are), the Asians, the fundamentalists etc. Aren't you always spouting personal responsibility along the lines of tough shit i.e. people are on the dole = tough shit, ethnic groups are subjected to the worst housing = tough shit. If you're as pissed off as you appear to be (as your posts suggest), then tough shit, and have you ever thought that you and your ilk could be the problem?


quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Polish pupils to be given anti Racist classes. No added cost there then.



I am overwhelmed with a sense of so fuckin' what.

I'd much rather my taxes go towards generating a reasonable nation than your ill-conceived, bigotted views. In fact, that reminds me, why am I paying towards your shit? All you seem to do is rant against everyone except the far-right.

E-mail sent to Blair a minute ago "Dear PM - why am I paying towards Seeks' constant inane bollocks - yours, mystified".

By the way, as you're so anti social provision, I take it you'll be rejecting the state contribution towards your old age and any support you may need from the National Health Service? Right, Seeks? If you are planning on a little state help I wouldn't be placing too much faith in the conservative crowd because we all know the lack of concern they have for the elderly. Out of curiosity, do you know what happened to the elderly last time the conservatives were in government? Links can be provided if you're unsure.

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RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/31/2007 5:50:02 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		NG is not concerned about about immigrants bringing into the country the very problems he so abhors when only expressed by the BNP.By the way, a lot could be said about what happened IN Poland during WW2. Tolerant lot they are. lol

If the studies re potential Hungarian/Bulgarian immigrant numbers are as accurate as those concerning the numbers from Poland  then they are not accurate at all. Just Liberal voodoo wishful thinking.

Another point, if Turkey gets into the CM, Common Market not Collar Me, then I think the Turks, when they arrive in the UK should be moved to Peterborough where I believe lots of Kurds are living and at the moment having punch ups with the Pakistanis. Turks v Kurds.....velly interesting !!!

As for taxes and resentment NG, I spent rather a lot on you as you wended your happy way thru' to University and into local govn't. I still pay since you produce absolutely nothing and believe yourself to be being charitable in so "NOT doing." You said so on a CM thread some time ago. So it must be true.

With regard to what you think I believe, politically in some areas I am lot more left wing than you would guess.
I am doctrinaire about nothing.To repeat myself, if people in groups behaved as they do as individuals the dangers arising from mass, culturally different populations would be non existant.
But people when considered as groups just do not integrate.anywhere in the world
 
NG why dont you take a holiday to the troubled Kashmir region in Northern India or Turkey which is nearer home and when in India spout the opposing view over Kashmir to that held by which ever group you happen to be with at the time or in Turkey criticise the Armenian massacre that occured in early 20th century..
You would be torn limb from limb, then you would definately need the NHS. he he he he he he he

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/31/2007 5:57:37 AM >

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RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/31/2007 6:04:46 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

With regard to what you think I believe politically in some areas I am lot more left wing than you would guess.
 


Pure gold that Seeks. As we're being so candid with each other, I'm a member of the Italian Fascist Alliance and actively engaged in attempting to reinstate Mussolini's government.

So, you're suddenly "a lot more left-wing" when the subject turns to state pensions and your NHS treatment.

Come on then Seeks, let's have it right.......will you be accepting the state pension or will you be telling the government and the people of Britain that you don't want it because of your right-wing principles of anti-public institutions? Does the same go for the National Health Service?

_____________________________

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RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/31/2007 7:45:29 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
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Status: offline 		No, your are wrong again. Unusual that lol.

For example I support comprehensive education as originally conceived and I think Public schools are an anathema, socially divisive and their products in a large part responsible for the economic decline of the UK.

Thats what I believe....is that Leftie enough for you ? 

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/31/2007 8:00:17 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

No, your are wrong again. Unusual that lol.

For example I support comprehensive education as originally conceived and I think Public schools are an anathema, socially divisive and their products in a large part responsible for the economic decline of the UK.

Thats what I believe....is that Leftie enough for you ? 



Oi Seeks, is this a moment of clarity?.....is this the same man who rails against the evils of immigration, trade unionism and public institutions as being the factors creating economic difficulty. Now you've pulled this one out of the bag - overtly stating that privilege (example public school education) is socially divisive and a factor in limiting economic growth.

In terms of the National Health Service and your state pension, I can't fault you for taking the benefit from this. As long as we know where we stand with one another in future chats, Seeks.

P.S. Now that you're concerned about social issues, do you want a lift to the next anti-war protest, or should I meet you there? Come on Seeks, you know it makes sense ;-)









_____________________________

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/31/2007 10:53:53 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
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Status: offline 		Thanks for the invite but I am going to brush up on my Arabic, then take a quick cycle trip to Baghdad  to start a demonstration pointing out in no uncertain terms that the Sunni/Shia power struggle is wrong and both Blair and Bush say stop.

Which sides suicide bomber do you think will get me first. ?

Just because Saddam isn't their to shoot them it doesn't mean because the Brits/Yanks are there that they should shoot one another. Thats what I shall say.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/31/2007 10:57:19 AM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK - 3/31/2007 12:04:14 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Thanks for the invite but



Oh come on Seeks. This could be the start of something beautiful.....you and I dancing in the fountain of unabashed socialism? Bathing in the spa town of Karlov Vary where Marx used to bathe in hot springs.......whipping up a revolution in the dark, dingy corners of dimly lit public houses while fascist government spies keep an eye on us? You're tempted, admit it!

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Just because Saddam isn't their to shoot them it doesn't mean because the Brits/Yanks are there that they should shoot one another. Thats what I shall say.



I'm in agreement with this. The Iraqis are locked in a power struggle and they're killing each other for power. It's beyond reproach.

That's fine, but extending this to say the US and British governments are in Iraq out of concern for the Iraqis is simply crossing the line into fantasy.

_____________________________

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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