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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Hey, FB ... can you please define a "neo-con" for me? What do you think this strange creature is, exactly?

Person who joined the Bandwagon to support Bush, but lack Core Conservative Values.

e.g.: The Largest Debt Ever, and The Largest Government Ever are antithetical to REAL REPUBLICANS and REAL CONSERVATIVES, but to the Neocon Party Whore, it's A. O-K!

And if your goal is to "Not Lose", you're never going to Win.

But you talk as if the definition of a "neo-con" is simply anyone who supports the war in Iraq.  As does every other person I've ever seen use that term in the forums.

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It might take decades.  It might even take centuries, but when it is over, the result will be something that totally repudiates large parts of the current Western, liberal tradition.

Evolution in action.

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FirmhandKy
Millions"?  Can you source that, please?

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csmonitor and The New York Times
Middle class leaving Iraq
Since destruction of Samarra shrine, many Iraqis are desperate to leave the country.

By Tom Regan | csmonitor.com

A few months after reports indicated that Iraqi university professors and academics were fleeing the country because of violence and kidnappings, new media reports say that the middle class in Iraq also wants to leave.
The New York Times reported last week that more and more middle class Iraqis seem to be " doing everything they can to leave the country."

"In the last 10 months, the state has issued new passports to 1.85 million Iraqis, 7 percent of the population and a quarter of the country's estimated middle class. The school system offers another clue: Since 2004, the Ministry of Education has issued 39,554 letters permitting parents to take their children's academic records abroad. The number of such letters issued in 2005 was double that in 2004, according to the director of the ministry's examination department. Iraqi officials and international organizations put the number of Iraqis in Jordan at close to a million. Syrian cities also have growing Iraqi populations."

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

It might take decades.  It might even take centuries, but when it is over, the result will be something that totally repudiates large parts of the current Western, liberal tradition.

Evolution in action.

I am sure the USSR felt that way about Afghanistan.

The thing most pro-war types seem to forget is that there is a cost for everything.  The money being used to support the war has to come from somewhere.  When the war started, Monkeyboy had reserves of money left over from Clinton's effective management of the economy and intelligent fiscal policies.  When the war did not work out as he had hoped, he was forced to resort to borrowing money from China to pay for it.

You, me, our children, etc., are going to be forced to repay that cretin's compulsive borrowing to go play in the sand.

While you state that you support our war, I have yet to see you actually define what this war is actually intended to accomplish.  The only thing I see this war accomplishing is a complete destabilization of an oil-rich region of the globe.  The loss of any American prestige on the planet.  The raping of our economy.

You are absolutely right, it is evolution in action.  When the New World Order means that the United States is a bankrupt shell, and 1/3 of the planet is combined under Islam, will you still be a die hard Monkeyboy's war supporter? 

I am happy to hear you are willing to end up roadkill on the highway of Evolution.

edited:  Somebody didnt log out of my computer...  (Sinergy)

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  You show a basic misapprehension about war, and what I am saying.  The question is: which side has the stronger will (the stronger stomach if you will) to win a war.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The Lieber Code. Promulgated by this one of This Nation's Greatest, the 16th. Abe Lincoln.

The United States Armed Forces use the following nine principles of war in training their officers:

Objective: Define a decisive and attainable objective for every military operation.

Offensive: Seize, retain, and exploit the initiative.

Mass: Apply sufficient force to achieve the objective.

Economy of Force: Focus the right amount of force on the key objective, without wasting force on secondary objectives.

Maneuver: Place the enemy in a position of disadvantage through the flexible application of combat power.

Unity of Command: For every objective, there must be a unified effort and one person responsible for command decisions.

Security: Never permit the enemy to acquire an unexpected advantage.

Surprise: Otherwise known as "Audacity"; Strike the enemy at a time and/or place and in a manner for which he is unprepared.

Simplicity: Prepare clear, uncomplicated plans and clear, concise orders.

Officers in the U.S. Military sometimes use the acronym "MOUSE MOSS" to remember the first letters of these nine principles.)

There is a debate within the American military establishment to adopt flexibility as the tenth principle of war. In The Growing Imperative to Adopt Flexibility as an American Principle of War, Robert S. Frost argues that the concept of flexibility should be integrated with America's warfighting doctrine.

The art of war, then, is governed by five constant factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations, when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

These are:  (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth; (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.

The Moral Law causes the people to be in complete accord with their ruler, so that they will follow him regardless of their lives, undismayed by any danger.

...

All warfare is based on deception.

...

Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

...

Now the general is the bulwark of the State; if the bulwark is complete at all points; the State will be strong; if the bulwark is defective, the State will be weak.

A whole army may be robbed of its spirit; a commander-in-chief may be robbed of his presence of mind.

The stability of the Kurdistan region has allowed it to achieve a higher level of development than other regions in Iraq. In 2004 the per capita income was 25% higher than in the rest of Iraq. The two chief cities of the region, Arbil and Sulaymaniyah, both have international airports serving destinations through the Middle East and parts of Europe. The government continues to receive a portion of the revenue from Iraq's oil exports, and the government will soon implement a unified foreign investment law. The KRG also has plans to build a media city in Arbil and free trade zones near the borders of Turkey and Iran.

Since 2003, the stronger economy of Kurdistan has attracted around 20,000 Arab workers from the rest of Iraq to seek jobs in Iraqi Kurdistan.[20] According to Iraqi president Jalal Talabani, since 2003 the number of millionaires in the Kurdish city of Silêmani has increased from 12 to 2000, referring to financial and economic growth of the region.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

KY,

Never has so much knowledge led to so little wisdom.

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  You show a basic misapprehension about war, and what I am saying.  The question is: which side has the stronger will (the stronger stomach if you will) to win a war.

Actually, the problem here is that you can't understand the quotes you are using and what their implication is. 

If you have the intellectual integrity, answer  these two questions in your own words.

What will we "win" in Iraq?
What price are you willing to pay for that win?

Never has so much knowledge led to so little wisdom.

Actually, the problem here is that you can't understand the quotes you are using and what their implication is. 

If you have the intellectual integrity ...

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ORIGINAL: caitlyn

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle
I bet the 1/2 Million dead Iraqis would disagree, if there were alive to debate the issue.

I thought you might like this website.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

simply------------KU.
I have said that from the outset.

KU Emptiness. According to Buddhism, the fundamental character of things is absence (or emptiness) of individual unchanging essences. The realization of the essencelessness of things is what permits the cultivation of psychological non-attachment, and thus cognitive equanimity. The direct realization of (or experience of insight into) emptiness is enlightenment. This shows up in aikido in the ideal of developing a state of cognitive openness, permitting one to respond immediately and intuitively to changing circumstances (see MOKUSO).

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

IN WAR it is VOID ----

Common stone faced dont give a fuck immovable heart will to win.

We ain't got it.

We won't get it.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

like i said you have no clu what i was talking about. 

Hell, Real, you don't have a clue to what you are talking about.  Why said I?

FirmKY

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  one step at a time, events are playing out, as we should not just assume that those doing these bombing attacks and now chemical attacks, have unlimited resources.

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We will have to pay whatever price needs paid, or just forget looking at ourselves in the mirror.