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A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:26:42 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

i have a question for those reading this post. It's something that happened to me a while ago, and always left me wondering if i should have done more to investigate or question it. As is my way i just folded my deck and went away, with a bit of a sour taste in my mouth and perhaps a little more cynical to boot.

i understand we all seek different experiences and have different needs and some people like to keep things casual and want to keep it on a "scene" or "play" level. That's great and i can see where this would be beneficial to many that are not ready for a committment but want to have their sado/maso needs met - or just those who miss serving someone or being served. Others are looking more for a "relationship" or long term partner, which will have it's own set of expectations and requirements.

my issue is with a dom who made it clear as a bell he was not monogamous and also that i were to get involved with him there would be no sex, as he does not have sex with his subs. He is fairly popular in the scene and many seek him out for play, advice, etc... he is in no way lacking for play material. i can understand his limit of no sex - with so many partners it would be at the very least risky business. We spent time getting to know each other and even played twice very casually. i looked forward to learning from him and spending time "playing". The no sex deal was fine with me, but when i related to him that no sex to me meant no sexual contact going both ways - meaning really no blow jobs, because to me thats sex, well i suppose i offended him in some way as he cut off all contact with me. i was very polite and respectful in my dialogue to him so i was left wondering - why would he feel entitled to recieve blow jobs from subs and still call this a no sex deal? Am i missing something? Am i too old fashioned lol??? To those who may suggest hes just a horn dog wannabe i will reiterate that hes pretty well known in the NYC circle and holds a lot of credibility and respect within the community there - he's a leader, events, parties etc... What are your thoughts? i don't question what i did - those are my values and i will stick to them - i just question this whole "no sex but bj's are ok" policy. i would have also thought someone with his experience and availability of subs would have handled it differently.... he disappointed me.

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

Post #: 1

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:30:01 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

It's a case of miscommunication. Yes it's a bit silly for him to make such a requirement and not make sure to clarify exactly what that means, but no harm done here. Neither of you have lost anything, and you've gained a bit of perspective on how it can be to try and get involved with a "rock star dom."

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 2

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:34:22 AM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

Just because he is well known doesnt mean he isnt a jerk!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:38:10 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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i agree by and large this was more then likely the case with this guy, in fact i suppose he felt insulted - but i have found a lot of doms have this attitude - i wonder how many subs buy into it - seems to me a great way to take advantage of others, convince newbies it's required but not necessarily reciprocated.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 4

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:40:12 AM

SunNMoon

Posts: 1058
Joined: 3/18/2007
Status: offline

hi,
I don't know him or the NYC circle at all. So my thoughts on this are going to sound a bit rude. First of I'm also "old fashioned" I guess since to me oral sex is sex. It sounds very one way to me. His sexual needs are being met and your needs don't count. Doesn't sound fair to me. It also sounds like you thought this would be more of a friendship/mentor relationship, with no sex. Also sounds like he was being a little childish by just cutting off connect with you (again I don't know him), so I could be wrong (something could have happened in his life, yada yada yada).
Just my thoughts.

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 5

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:40:19 AM

serillabound

Posts: 22
Joined: 12/12/2006
Status: offline

I'm not surprised in the least...Men in general, not just Doms...seem to think that blow jobs are not categorized as *sexual contact*...typical male thinking...
And no, I don't think you're old-fashioned, just a reasonable assumption...although one must be careful with assumptions...they often come back to bite you in the ass!!

_____________________________

submission is not a gift but the result of a mind raping partnership

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 6

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:41:07 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Just because he is well known doesnt mean he isnt a jerk!!

Magik's slave

Maybe thats an overlooked quality if the bounty is high enough.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 7

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:45:06 AM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SunNMoon

hi,
I don't know him or the NYC circle at all. So my thoughts on this are going to sound a bit rude. First of I'm also "old fashioned" I guess since to me oral sex is sex. It sounds very one way to me. His sexual needs are being met and your needs don't count. Doesn't sound fair to me. It also sounds like you thought this would be more of a friendship/mentor relationship, with no sex. Also sounds like he was being a little childish by just cutting off connect with you (again I don't know him), so I could be wrong (something could have happened in his life, yada yada yada).
Just my thoughts.

Yeah that would be the feeling I would get to.. Why should he be intitled to get sexualy fufilled through the relationship when Im not aspecialy when he made that a limit to the relationship to begin with.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to SunNMoon)

Post #: 8

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:45:13 AM

junecleaver

Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline

Kudos for sticking to your own values. It sounds like some sort of miscommunication. I hope he's using protection for all those service oriented blowjobs he must be receiving from all those available submissives.

People in the scene are just that...people. Recently, I was at a workshop and this guy who is pretty well-known blows into the place. When ask to fill out paper work, he was very rude, loud, and annoying. Being a guest of the presenter for the event, the people in charge of the group decided not to ask him to leave. I was thinking...'what an asshole.' Then I had the opportunity to watch him interact with his slaves. He has a lot of lifestyle-ish skills. I really admired the exchange going on between the group. Later, he was not such an asshole. I was told he apologized. And blah blah blah. I guess what I'm saying is that at some point, we are all assholes and to put someone on a pedastal seems like a waste of effort to me. So maybe you shouldn't be that disappointed, even well-respected Dominants are flawed. At least you have already found out you are not compatible instead of wasting more time and emotion.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 9

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:45:27 AM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

For some, the prestige that comes from being with a well known player in the scene is worth overlooking some flaws. That's not to say there is any here. I don't know the guy. He is perfectly able to dictate what it is he wants and has every right to do so. I don't think he is wrong or a jerk by stating he expects a blow job from a sub and the sub will get no sexual contact.

You have every right to agree to that or not.

The issues I see here are basic miscommunication of precise expectations and a seemingly childish response to your disagreement once those expectations were communicated adequately.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 10

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:47:10 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

SunNMoon - The "fairness" of it didn't bother me as much as his asuming everyone thinks like he did, and how he eventually handled it. In all fairness to him i do believe he was into toys and such, so when he said no sex he meant no penetration. Nothing happend in his life - it's pretty easy to keep track of him so to speak - he just decided to cut off communication.

serillabound - thanks - good to know i am not alone in my thinking :-)

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to SunNMoon)

Post #: 11

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:50:33 AM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

oh and for the record, I consider oral, anal and vaginal penetration as well as stimulation to be considered sex in my book. But then...not everyone has a copy :P

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 12

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:52:13 AM

PonyGroom

Posts: 150
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline

I am one of those well known doms who plays with others and makes it clear as hell up front that there is no sex involved.

And yes, one of the reasons for this is the risks I would take if I had fluid contact with multiple partners.

I am not under some illusion that oral-genital contact is outside the bounds of "no sex involved".

I am "fluid bound" to exactly two people and it is going to stay that way. The three of us made promises to each other, partly for the sake of safety and sanity, and that's that.

We think that leaves a huge number of possibilities for play with others.

That said, we know some think bondage, D/s or sm is all and only about foreplay. No problem with that - but it's not how we roll.

Tim

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 13

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:53:01 AM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

LOL i think I have the same copy of that book Ma'am or at least a simalure reprint LOL because all of those things are considered sex or sexual in my book as well!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

Post #: 14

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:55:31 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

june - you're right in that people are just people... popularity never drew me to him in the first place. The first time we met i remember him saying to me - You don't know who i am do you. LOL. i said no should i? He thought that was refreshing at that time. i learned of his "popularity" after getting to know him.

MsKat - thats my issue as well. He feels his experience entitles him to counsel others which he does in a column elsewhere - i just expected better of him. If he talks the talk - shouldn't he walk the walk??

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to junecleaver)

Post #: 15

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 11:55:57 AM

SunNMoon

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Joined: 3/18/2007
Status: offline

velvetears, in that case I think Magik's slave said it best, "Just because he is well known doesnt mean he isnt a jerk!!"

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 16

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 12:00:10 PM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline

Popularity is not necessarily created by overwhelming experience or intelligence...most of the time it's created by charm. That's certainly not always the case, but I have found it true in many instances.

You were right to stick to your guns. As LA put it "rock star" doms don't have to compromise, generally there are plenty of willing people to do the things that he feels are appropriate.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 17

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 12:00:11 PM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

PonyGroom - sounds like you make it clear to others what your expectations are. Seems this guy wanted others to take the chances while he wasn't willing to take any. He was careful of his own safety but affronted when a sub took him at his word - no sex meaning no sex.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to PonyGroom)

Post #: 18

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 12:03:52 PM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

spanklette - so true, he does have a lot of charm and charisma, which made me like him - but not enough to compromise my own standards.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 19

RE: A Difference of Expectations - 3/31/2007 12:13:20 PM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i have a question for those reading this post. It's something that happened to me a while ago, and always left me wondering if i should have done more to investigate or question it. As is my way i just folded my deck and went away, with a bit of a sour taste in my mouth and perhaps a little more cynical to boot.

i understand we all seek different experiences and have different needs and some people like to keep things casual and want to keep it on a "scene" or "play" level. That's great and i can see where this would be beneficial to many that are not ready for a committment but want to have their sado/maso needs met - or just those who miss serving someone or being served. Others are looking more for a "relationship" or long term partner, which will have it's own set of expectations and requirements.

my issue is with a dom who made it clear as a bell he was not monogamous and also that i were to get involved with him there would be no sex, as he does not have sex with his subs. He is fairly popular in the scene and many seek him out for play, advice, etc... he is in no way lacking for play material. i can understand his limit of no sex - with so many partners it would be at the very least risky business. We spent time getting to know each other and even played twice very casually. i looked forward to learning from him and spending time "playing". The no sex deal was fine with me, but when i related to him that no sex to me meant no sexual contact going both ways - meaning really no blow jobs, because to me thats sex, well i suppose i offended him in some way as he cut off all contact with me. i was very polite and respectful in my dialogue to him so i was left wondering - why would he feel entitled to recieve blow jobs from subs and still call this a no sex deal? Am i missing something? Am i too old fashioned lol??? To those who may suggest hes just a horn dog wannabe i will reiterate that hes pretty well known in the NYC circle and holds a lot of credibility and respect within the community there - he's a leader, events, parties etc... What are your thoughts? i don't question what i did - those are my values and i will stick to them - i just question this whole "no sex but bj's are ok" policy. i would have also thought someone with his experience and availability of subs would have handled it differently.... he disappointed me.

My owner and I call those types blow job doms. Its certainly very common it seems for male doms to want blow jobs, but someone being well known in the scene doesn't mean much in terms of their interpersonal relationship skills..

I think it was just a function of miscommunication, difference in definitions, and difference in expectations. Better you figured it out early.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 20

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