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Iran - 3/31/2007 7:36:30 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		How does the world feel about the situation regarding the patrol boat crew that have been arrested by the Iranian forces,and the subsequent confessions on TV?
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RE: Iran - 3/31/2007 7:38:00 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, it is asswipe, I don't believe it or disbelieve it.




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RE: Iran - 3/31/2007 7:40:59 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

How does the world feel about the situation regarding the patrol boat crew that have been arrested by the Iranian forces,and the subsequent confessions on TV?


Sucks to be them.

Torture will make people say and do the most horrendous things.  Just ask any graduate of Abu Graibh.

Sinergy

p.s.  Iran wants a war.  My question is whether or not Monkeyboy will oblige them.

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RE: Iran - 3/31/2007 8:04:56 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

How does the world feel about the situation regarding the patrol boat crew that have been arrested by the Iranian forces,and the subsequent confessions on TV?



       I don't even speak for my whole household (the damn kitten always has other ideas), much less the world.

        Maybe the crazy guy over there really does believe that he is destined to call forth the 12th Imam by starting WWIII.

        The best thing to do might be to buy remote control airplanes for everyone you know of a draftable age and encourage them to become highly skilled.

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: Iran - 3/31/2007 11:05:31 PM   
Totalmaster4you


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Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		I feel for the Brits. You can bet that "confessions" were forced. You all had better believe that the leader of Iran wants a jihad on any part of the world that isn't Muslim.

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RE: Iran - 3/31/2007 11:30:53 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		This shows why maintianing the high moral ground and not playing fast and loose with the Geneva Conventions is important.

This is the big boy version of poking your little brother and then crying to mommy when he slugs back.We are playing hardball with Iran, we are fucking with her, this isn't a game for whiny crybabies.  I have no doubt the Brits were not intentionally in Iranian waters but the waters are disputed and are pretty tight anyway.  The Iranians siezed those guys (we call it rendition when we do it) and are playing fast and loose too.

Let's not forget that the Brits openly announce that they lost British soldiers (SAS) in places like Moscow during the cold war.  Iran better not forget that those crazy bastards took ships and planes out of mothballs and fought Argentina for the Falklands on the other side of the word.  However, the Brits were lucky against Argentina and should have lost except for fuses, Iranian fuses aren't as likely to be bad...probably because they will be fresh Russian and Chinese ones.


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RE: Iran - 3/31/2007 11:36:47 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

This shows why maintianing the high moral ground and not playing fast and loose with the Geneva Conventions is important.


Amen!

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RE: Iran - 4/1/2007 2:51:10 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

How does the world feel about the situation regarding the patrol boat crew that have been arrested by the Iranian forces,and the subsequent confessions on TV?


I can't figure out why they were so lightly armed and really just making routine patrols so close to Iranian waters, sounds like they were being too complacent. However, it smacks of desperation and frustration on part of the Iranians and they will be ultimately the losers. Sooner or later they will have to give the soldiers back and this will be one more stick for the anti-Iranian lobby to beat them with. If they come back dead, it will be good night Iranian nuclear ambitions. The Iranians are losing the plot.

I don't think we should be there and we certainly don't hold any moral highground, it is going to be up to the Iranians as to whether they give Britain high ground or not.

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RE: Iran - 4/1/2007 3:32:22 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
I can't figure out why they were so lightly armed and really just making routine patrols so close to Iranian waters
Why does an angler hold a worm on a hook in front of a fish? It seems to me that someone wanted Iran to bite. Those marines were not put in danger by their commander by accident, but by design. They were meant to be captured. Pity Iran, for they are doomed to be invaded and defeated.

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RE: Iran - 4/1/2007 4:24:42 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

How does the world feel about the situation regarding the patrol boat crew that have been arrested by the Iranian forces,and the subsequent confessions on TV?



1) Imagine if Iran occupied France, had scores of warships in the Channel, was reported to have commandos operating in the home counties, and was pushing for sanctions against Britain – how would public opinion, the media and the British government react?

2) Whether or not the British sailors were in Iranian waters is disputed. But what is not in dispute is that Britain has joined the US in pouring warships into the Gulf while pressuring and threatening Iran.

3) The British government has form for this kind of set-up: in 1949 the British gunboat HMS Amethyst was fired on in the Yangtze river in China. There was much outrage in Britain at Mao’s People’s Liberation Army, which was on the verge of taking power, for shooting at the ship. There was little questioning of what a British ship was doing on a Chinese river.

4) The commander of the ship HMS Cornwall unwittingly captured the mentality of imperial occupation when he said the sailors had been captured in “our waters”. He meant the waters belonging under international law and treaty to the Republic of Iraq. Ultimately, what on earth are British gunboats doing in Iraqi or Iranian waters in a place called the Arabian or Persian Gulf thousands of miles from home?

5) It is not the business of Western governments and the corporations that back them, steeped in the blood and sweat of hundreds of millions of people across the globe, to bring “order” to the “savages”. It is the business of Iraqis and Iranians.

6) None of the above changes the fact that the Iranians, having made their point, should have handed back the captives immediately before the whole thing spirals out of control and plays into US and British hands.

7) Knowing that the current British government fabricated WMDs dossier in order to gain Parliamentary support for the invasion, can they be trusted?

As a side note, there is absolutely no 'Internationally agreed' territorial demarcation in the Gulf. The Iran/Iraq maritime boundary shown on the British government map does not exist. It has been drawn up by the British Government. Only Iraq and Iran can agree their bilateral boundary, and they never have done this in the Gulf, only inside the Shatt because there it is the land border too.

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RE: Iran - 4/1/2007 6:02:04 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I can't figure out why they were so lightly armed and really just making routine patrols so close to Iranian waters, sounds like they were being too complacent.



There's a gaping hole in defence strategy and equipment.

During the cold war, we concentrated on big defence as a response to the threat presented.

The Navy apparently has nothing to protect eight-man open boats except for 4,000 ton mini-battleships. There are no smaller, high-speed armed craft.

The RAF is in a similar position, superbly equipped to intercept non-existent supersonic bombers, but unable to intercept 200-knot piston or light turbine training or executive aircraft.

It's fair to say, we're not geared up for any of this, and are about to get out of our depth.



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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Iran - 4/1/2007 6:21:36 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Whose waters, 15 sailors etc are the small details designed to cloud what is really going on.

The fact is, it is British and US forces who are surrounding Iran. That is the point. The aggressor in this is not Iran. If the Iranian army were camped outside your borders, what would you do?

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 4/1/2007 6:54:21 AM >

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Iran - 4/1/2007 6:26:30 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

How does the world feel about the situation regarding the patrol boat crew that have been arrested by the Iranian forces,and the subsequent confessions on TV?


I don't know how the world feels, but I'm as likely as not, to believe the british were in what Iranians claim as their territory. It wouldn't be the first time, a government lied. Isn't every other thread about governments not telling the truth. Close enough anyway.

I'd place bets that the british were in Iranian waters, and they hope they lop the soldiers heads off,or at least torture them well, as a means of shoring up support for intervention in the middle east. Nothing gets support of the populace, like planes flying into buildings, subways blowing up, or soldiers getting their heads lopped off on TV.


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RE: Iran - 4/1/2007 7:20:43 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I think Ahmadinejad is losing support in Iran, even before this.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: Iran - 4/1/2007 7:25:31 AM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I think Ahmadinejad is losing support in Iran, even before this.



      I wonder if you've just hit the nail dead on, Level.  This could be an attempt to distract the Iranian people from the serious domestic problems there with a bit of Nationalism and the Infidel Threat.  The West aren't the only ones who know how to wag the dog.

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RE: Iran - 4/1/2007 7:28:57 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Exactly, Rich. Here's a quote (and link) to an article from earlier this year on the subject:

"Ayatollah Khamenei has ultimate authority on foreign policy, and is rumoured to be so disillusioned with Mr Ahmadinejad's performance that he has refused to meet him on occasion."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1991176,00.html

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 5:01:07 AM   
Manawyddan


Posts: 701
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Petaluma (Northern California)
Status: offline 		Or it could be a simple response to the Americans siezing 15 Iranians from their consulate in Iraq, in an attempt at brokering a hostage tradeoff.

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RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 6:23:25 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Iran is between a rock and a hard place. As stupid as an attack on Iran would be for the US, they know we are stupid enough to do it. If I were their government I would do a few things.

I would try first to get a deal with China, and this is a sweet one. For every bomb that the US or Israel drops in Iran, cash in a Tbill. In fact threaten to do so, but carry it out if need be.

I would talk to each and every one of those captured soldiers, and explain to them how they were used as bait, like a worm or a minnow on a hook. They would sit in my jail for about a month, be treated well, but told that one of them will be executed. One must stand for the crime, the others will be returned. They can decide who takes the rap amongst themselves.

I would however, at the end reveal that noone is getting executed and return all of them home.This situation would get them thinking though. Who gets the axe ? Do they draw straws or do they discuss it and figure out among those without children, who's life sucks the worst ? Once they start thinking they sometimes continue to think.

The idea is to make, albeit a small change, a definite change in the hearts/minds of people. That is where true change comes from, not military might. I have a gun, and I can guarantee you one thing about it, there is no way I can use it to convince you of anything.

Guns, like military force are pretty much monopurpose. To kill. Bringing the aircraft carriers and all that into the gulf region is like a drunken Man brandishing a pistol at the bar. My ilk and I generally disarm assholes like that. It's not the gun, it's that this guy has it in his hand and is pointing it all around the place and has his finger on the trigger.

It is high fucking time to fucking disarm fucking George fucking W fucking Bush.

Don't like the F word ? Don't go to their place, I heard they talk like that all the time when they get out of the public eye. OK so do I, but I don't want their money, I just want mine. They want mine too. Other than that, no problem.

If they don't back off there is going to be hell to pay, are we that worthless that they think they can get along after WW3 ? I just don't know how people got so stupid, and got into positions of power. This is ridiculous, I could run anything better than any of them, Bush, Blair, all of them, and I am a fucking high school dropout !

They have all this intel and advisors and shit and they are so stupid that they do not realize that an attack on Iran is an assault on a bees' nest. It could very well incite insurrection in several Arab countries with US/Israel sponsored governments. If that happens they will need troops. Iraq will still need troops, and of Iran will need troops.

The fucking idiots are so short sighted they don't even have the draft going yet, that means 6-8 weeks plus before even getting one new soldier.

Fuck it let them attack. Let the shit hit the fan. I will survive. I'll shoot squirrels and cook them over the lumber I got in the attic, to rebuild the house in case of a fire.

We will never have a sane foreign policy with republicans or democrats. Just vote for Ron Paul. It's the least you can do.

T

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RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 9:07:16 AM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
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Status: offline 		You keep lumber in your attic to rebuild after a fire?.........You think you can live on squirels?.....You are going to cook on a fire of treated lumber?  Yeah, lets follow your plan

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RE: Iran - 4/2/2007 9:09:40 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		actually, squirrel is pretty fuckin tasty, and yes you can live on squirrel and rabbit and so on.

Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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