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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 10:03:00 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

just makes him the wrong Dominant for this particular submissive. and personally i feel sorry for him if he has a submissive who's going up to people, showing them bruises and marks, crying about it and asking if such and such is normal.


I have no opinion about the content of this relationship that has been described as I do not have enough information. I do find the above statement as something I wanted to comment on. I have very little sympathy for any dominant that takes on the wrong submissive, pushes her beyond her emotional setpoint, does not discuss it with her and now she is showing people the results of it and obviously unsure of how normal her experience is within the lifestyle. It does not seem like a very dominant way of handling a dynamic.

In my opinion if a person has not had the parameters of the relationship spelled out before they enter into it then  they cannot enter into a relationship with informed consent. I can tell you from an ethical point of view this troubles me as someone that has to obtain informed consent if I perform a study or any other sort of research involving people. It seems crucial to me that people would have informed consent before using someone as an emotional or physical punching bag. In other words it seems to me that the fact he would choose to use her this way should have been spelled out before she entered into such a relationship. In my opinion a dominant that does not get informed  consent from a submissive does not have consent at all, therefore it lies outside of WIITWD and it comes under the umbrella of abuse if it remains undiscussed and not rectified.

Now this dominant may have set parameters for this submissive, she may have been told that this would be expected of her. She may not have realized what this would entail. I have no idea, therefore I have no opinion. But I just wanted to point out that feeling pity for a dominant that very well may have not obtained consent to use a person in this manner is crossing an ethical boundary. Only the submissive in question knows for sure if this is true or not.

I would not enter into such a relationship consensually, and if a dominant chose to use me this way he would not have me at all, and he would probably be talking to the cops if he hit me in anger. I have been in a relationship that was physically abusive...I am no one's punching bag.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/2/2007 10:05:20 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to PapiNsweet)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 10:26:49 AM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

And this is where the "I'm a slave and he can do whatever he wants and the only way I can leave him, is if he releases me" crap floating around irritates me. It makes people feel obligated to be in relationships that they may not belong in.


i have reread the thread and am still missing it... where did anyone suggest she needed to stay until she was released?

Master's dorei

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 12:07:44 PM   
zindyslave


Posts: 601
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		Fast Reply

Does she feel it is abuse? If so then maybe she needs to talk to someone about it, if they never scene as you said in the first post then it is possible that it is abuse. But also talking to the both of them might be a better thing to do first, even if it is just to see the dynamic of the relationship in front of others. If they are both new he may not know he is over doing it or if she isn't sharing that information that this is too much or whatever then he isn't abusing her. It is a shady area that needs to be looked into first before saying it is or is not abuse. 

_____________________________

http://www.myspace.com/zindygirl

Only when you see the invisible can you do the impossible.

(in reply to PapiNsweet)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 12:21:03 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		I could get up on a SOAP box about angry dominant people.  Dominants should be in control of themselves first, before even trying to control anything else.

I have heard many Horror stories about Dom/mes on this site, that lash out when they are turned down.  Where they are abusive with their own words towards a submissive that rejected them or politely said Thanks but no Thanks.

Control is an excercise in temperence.  How well a Dom/me can temper their own emotions.  Everybody is entitled to feel such an emotion as anger and express it.  However, Anger is no means an open license for being abusive.

Scene play can be a great effective means tool for the controlled release of negative emotions, however this is not the only outlet.  Working out at the Gym is another good outlet as well.   Out of control anger is not safe for the Dom/me or the submissive.  Property is not even safe.  Things become broken, the submissve hurt, the Dom/me may end up hurting themselves as well.   The Dom/me may even face being arrested and being thrown in jail.   No good can happen from out of control anger.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 12:33:51 PM   
Kindandcruel


Posts: 27
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline 		These discussions are always so rediculous.... There is no information... Period.  Is the sub a drama queen, did she do her homework before becomming a sub to the dom... finding out what he is like outside of the sweet-talk submissives usually swoon to. What was the terms of her submission? what is her past? Is she a runner.... hooking up with the first personthat tells her what she wants to know and then finds out that she bought a bunch of lies? Is het the type that is forward and honest whereas she didn't represent herself to what he was expecting and now she is back stabbing him? Is he nothing more than an abuse pretending to be a Dominant?

How can you be so judgmental upon a third gossip and give such advice as to what to do etc when you don'[t have a clue....

This is exactly why getting advice on these boards is asking for BAD ADVICE!


(in reply to servilecat)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 1:43:50 PM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		It's not possible to know what is going on in someone else's relationship. Sometimes even the people inside it don't really know.
Possibly what is going wrong is that she loves him and he isn't emotionally involved.
She certainly sounds inexperienced if she wants someone to tell her what is normal.
What she ought to be asking is. Is what he is doing to me going to be causing me long term physical harm? And am I making him happy? Which is presumably what she wants to do.
The answer to the first may need a medical professional.
The answer to the second can only come from him.
My advice to her would be go and talk to him not me.




(in reply to Kindandcruel)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 2:02:16 PM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		An "angry" dominant does not always equal an "out of control" dominant. There are plenty of dominants who can be angry and in complete control of themselves.

Just a gentle reminder...
Master's dorei


(in reply to lateralist1)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 2:02:36 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline 		Waves back to Alloces!!!!

 
I think if you read the thread thoroughly, you will seethat there are many here who said there was not enough information to make a judgement. There were only a few who offered advice, and that advice was aimed that the OP, not the sumissive in question. I've seen bad advice given on these boards, fortunately, I haven't seen any here...just varied opinions.

IMHO, if anyone takes the advice from strangers on these boards as anything other than input...well, I would call their judgement into question. Take what you want and leave the rest.

Edited to add:
I have found many of the "strangers" here wise and thoughtful, and taken many of their opinions into account. This post was not to undermine anyone's wealth of knowledge or experience, merely to put it into perspective.

< Message edited by spanklette -- 4/2/2007 2:12:35 PM >

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to Kindandcruel)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 2:30:25 PM   
OhBeMyMind


Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeatMeDaily



i think W/we all agree this is abuse.

~snip~



Ummm, no we "All" do not agree that this is abuse, because I certainly do not agree that it is abuse.  I dont know what it is because I am not there.  I have responded what it may be.......Please speak for yourself.

Everyone else, pardon me....felt the need to speak up as crap like this just pisses me off.
~now back to the regularly scheduled post~

_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

(in reply to BeatMeDaily)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 4:04:12 PM   
KaineD


Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servilecat

i recently met a new submissive.  She was showing us some of her bruises and asking if this was normal.  Basically our answer anytime we hear that question is 'what's normal?' But she did concern me as it was obvious she was hurt and had started to cry.  Whether this is a personal issue or a case of just wrong, i have no idea since so many relationships are just a mix of what works. 

In her words He leaves bruises and pinches her breasts so hard it leaves blood blisters, He reacts with what seems no control when He gets angry and takes things out on her flesh.  It sounded like they don't really scene and these are just random attacks out of anger or frustration. 
Other then explaining the necessity of a safe word and hoping He respects it, i'm not sure what to tell her that we havent already said to her.
Any ideas?  Not sure how to answer her or help her without butting in.  If it were a vanilla i would be more then happy to string him up for the abuse....


This sounds like abuse.  She should see someone, like a counsellor, to go to.  Maybe the cops should be alerted.

(in reply to servilecat)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 4:06:04 PM   
KaineD


Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OhBeMyMind

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeatMeDaily



i think W/we all agree this is abuse.

~snip~



Ummm, no we "All" do not agree that this is abuse, because I certainly do not agree that it is abuse.  I dont know what it is because I am not there.  I have responded what it may be.......Please speak for yourself.

Everyone else, pardon me....felt the need to speak up as crap like this just pisses me off.
~now back to the regularly scheduled post~


If a sub has to go to other people to ask if her dom's behavior is normal, if she cries in front of people because of this, and describes him as angry and having no control, then yeah.  It's abuse.  Use your common sense.

(in reply to OhBeMyMind)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 4:26:43 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline 		The OP is there and isn't sure if it's consentual or not...how can you judge from a message on a board whether or not this is abuse? I think you may be jumping to conclusions.
 

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to KaineD)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 4:42:19 PM   
OhBeMyMind


Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

quote:

ORIGINAL: OhBeMyMind

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeatMeDaily



i think W/we all agree this is abuse.

~snip~



Ummm, no we "All" do not agree that this is abuse, because I certainly do not agree that it is abuse.  I dont know what it is because I am not there.  I have responded what it may be.......Please speak for yourself.

Everyone else, pardon me....felt the need to speak up as crap like this just pisses me off.
~now back to the regularly scheduled post~


If a sub has to go to other people to ask if her dom's behavior is normal, if she cries in front of people because of this, and describes him as angry and having no control, then yeah.  It's abuse.  Use your common sense.


Hmm, not sure if you were replying directly to me or not, but since you quoted me it seems as though you are....and with that, I stand by MY common sense statement......I do not agree that it is abuse, and I do not agree that it is not abuse, as many people have stated already there is not enough information, and as I stated already I do not know what it is because I am not there.....and obviously neither are you but it is such a shame that everyone is not as psychic, insightful, and brilliant as you are since you are convinced that it is abuse even with the very small amout of information given.....wow, when I grow up I wanna be just like you. LOL!

Edited to add ~My give-a-damn is still broke~  LOL

< Message edited by OhBeMyMind -- 4/2/2007 4:44:21 PM >

_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

(in reply to KaineD)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/3/2007 9:00:53 AM   
zindyslave


Posts: 601
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		I don't believe it is or isn't abuse. So, in that respect I agree with OhBeMyMind. I think getting to know the two of them and there interactions with each other might help, or if he has had other submissives in the past they maybe able to shed light on this also. But the submissive does need to talk to her Dom if she feels something is different about him.

_____________________________

http://www.myspace.com/zindygirl

Only when you see the invisible can you do the impossible.

(in reply to OhBeMyMind)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/3/2007 9:26:29 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I have one simple rule about relationships and it was said best in a song by Sheryl Crowe.

If it makes you happy
It can't be that bad
If it makes you happy
Then why the hell are you so sad
 
If what you are doing isn't making you happy then why do it?  I am masochistic  and might stick with that for a while IF I was getting something out of it.  But the bottom line is if I was more unhappy, than happy, it would be time to exit.
 
I can't see staying with a bad situation, just so that I could say I am in a relationship.
I am not that needy.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to servilecat)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/3/2007 10:46:01 AM   
KaineD


Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OhBeMyMind

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

quote:

ORIGINAL: OhBeMyMind

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeatMeDaily



i think W/we all agree this is abuse.

~snip~



Ummm, no we "All" do not agree that this is abuse, because I certainly do not agree that it is abuse.  I dont know what it is because I am not there.  I have responded what it may be.......Please speak for yourself.

Everyone else, pardon me....felt the need to speak up as crap like this just pisses me off.
~now back to the regularly scheduled post~


If a sub has to go to other people to ask if her dom's behavior is normal, if she cries in front of people because of this, and describes him as angry and having no control, then yeah.  It's abuse.  Use your common sense.


Hmm, not sure if you were replying directly to me or not, but since you quoted me it seems as though you are....and with that, I stand by MY common sense statement......I do not agree that it is abuse, and I do not agree that it is not abuse, as many people have stated already there is not enough information, and as I stated already I do not know what it is because I am not there.....and obviously neither are you but it is such a shame that everyone is not as psychic, insightful, and brilliant as you are since you are convinced that it is abuse even with the very small amout of information given.....wow, when I grow up I wanna be just like you. LOL!

Edited to add ~My give-a-damn is still broke~  LOL


From the original post...

quote:

it was obvious she was hurt and had started to cry.


This, plus the fact that she had to ASK if it was normal, is what makes me think it's abuse.  If she were happy with her arrangements, she wouldn't be asking other people whats normal and she wouldn't be crying.  Would she? 

(in reply to OhBeMyMind)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/3/2007 10:57:22 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD
This, plus the fact that she had to ASK if it was normal, is what makes me think it's abuse.  If she were happy with her arrangements, she wouldn't be asking other people whats normal and she wouldn't be crying.  Would she? 

Crying and unsure if something is normal or not hardly equates to something being abusive.

I've known subs who fully leap into a first spanking, enjoy the hell out of it, and then get what I call the "morning after syndrome" when they wake up, realize what they've done, get totally freaked out about it, cry, hate the marks, call people up and ask what's going on and how to deal.

The spanking itself was not abusive at all, in fact it was fully desired at the time.

This particular situation, with the information given, is too gray to suggest whether we could say that this reasonably could be defined as abusive or not.  As I said in my first response, if SHE feels it's abusive, she should take steps to remove herself from the situation.

That still doesn't mean it IS abusive or would reasonably be considered such by others.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to KaineD)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/3/2007 11:01:15 AM   
KaineD


Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		You bring up a very good point, Albatross.  I didn't think of it like that.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/3/2007 11:51:40 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		also add sub drop coupled with morning after syndrome and add a sprinkle of religious up bringing, and or social programming, and heck it might have been her period as well, and you are talking an emotional powder keg...

however based on the limited info we have here i think she is playing with a woefully underinvested dominant...underinvested in understanding the lifestyle, undnderinvested in desiring to understand the lifestyle, and underinvested in her...

sound like he is a young'en....thats all...not an abuser...at least not yet.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to KaineD)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/3/2007 12:13:22 PM   
OhBeMyMind


Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD
This, plus the fact that she had to ASK if it was normal, is what makes me think it's abuse.  If she were happy with her arrangements, she wouldn't be asking other people whats normal and she wouldn't be crying.  Would she? 

Crying and unsure if something is normal or not hardly equates to something being abusive.

I've known subs who fully leap into a first spanking, enjoy the hell out of it, and then get what I call the "morning after syndrome" when they wake up, realize what they've done, get totally freaked out about it, cry, hate the marks, call people up and ask what's going on and how to deal.

The spanking itself was not abusive at all, in fact it was fully desired at the time.

This particular situation, with the information given, is too gray to suggest whether we could say that this reasonably could be defined as abusive or not.  As I said in my first response, if SHE feels it's abusive, she should take steps to remove herself from the situation.

That still doesn't mean it IS abusive or would reasonably be considered such by others.


Well said LA....I appreciate the "morning after syndrome" you offered....I too have known people who behaved the same way.  In my experience, after a couple of days they are calm, collected and ready to jump back in...craving that spanking or whatever scene they were just hysteric over.


Nuff said.

_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 60
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