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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/7/2007 8:23:28 AM

lonlyrossInNeed

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I have to say that i would not play with a angry dominant and i would not play when i am angry iether
becouse of the fact that someone could seriously get hurt
even if not intentianal it is still dangrouse.

ross.g

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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/7/2007 3:12:32 PM

curvyslavegirl

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Here is a great article that I often print out when I am teaching classes on Domestic Violence assessment for professionals.
http://www.ncsfreedom.org/library/smvsabuse.htm
Striking out in anger isn't dominance, its abuse!

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Post #: 82

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/7/2007 3:25:46 PM

pinksugarsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servilecat

i recently met a new submissive. She was showing us some of her bruises and asking if this was normal. Basically our answer anytime we hear that question is 'what's normal?' But she did concern me as it was obvious she was hurt and had started to cry. Whether this is a personal issue or a case of just wrong, i have no idea since so many relationships are just a mix of what works.

In her words He leaves bruises and pinches her breasts so hard it leaves blood blisters, He reacts with what seems no control when He gets angry and takes things out on her flesh. It sounded like they don't really scene and these are just random attacks out of anger or frustration.
Other then explaining the necessity of a safe word and hoping He respects it, i'm not sure what to tell her that we havent already said to her.
Any ideas? Not sure how to answer her or help her without butting in. If it were a vanilla i would be more then happy to string him up for the abuse....

Abuse can happen to a real subbie, slave, Master or Dom in many ways; N/no O/one is immune. The keystone (generally) is consent. Since the woman you met was about to cry, it's a pretty sure thing she's inna abusive relationship and not a truely D/s one.

Battered women can only be helped during a window of time when they can hear a voice other than that of their abuser's. If i were you i would not support the relationship (by remaining silent) and let her know you'd stand by her if she changed her mind about "Him".

There are exceptions: if the abuse seemed esp violent (like broken bones, deep tissue injuries, lost teeth) or if the woman was esp vunerable by dint of age, unmentionables or disability, i'd report "Him" to the cops.

pinksugarsub

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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/7/2007 8:49:39 PM

nookie

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Hello everyone,

I'm confused here. I agree that no one can know exactly what's going on in that relationship and only the parties involved can fix it.

What confuses me, and concerns me, is that it seems that several feel that a submissive who shares concerns and feelings with another submissive is somehow wrong in doing so. Am I understanding this correctly? Is this somehow wrong?

Thank you.

nookie

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Post #: 84

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/8/2007 6:43:38 AM

mons

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greetings

what he is doing is abuse. when the submissive is crying and wondering if what he is doing is abuse then it is. there are many submissive who do like it over the top. but not with angry this man is abousing her when a bruise turn into a blood mark and it show to the point of it bleeding she is in danger. burst of angry and fit of angry are so dangerous the person who is showing this type of mood can strike and hit hard enoungh to break bones give a black eye or two. my sister husband when she was not home began to show fits of angry he broke things the next step would be to break me he was so angry and i do not scare easy but i ran from the house . he had to go and my sister did it for weeks after i could not stop looking over my shoulders this was more once. i could not sleep. so in all this man is dangerous to her i hope she will leave him soon before he explodes i am thankgod my sister made him leave his angry was at me and i do not know why it hurt i thought i would have someone i could trust at last ( fear of black men ) he made it worst yes i know not all of them are bad but the fear is real oh i am black. ok enough of me i did not read the reast of the post but hope she gives help

take care dear
mons

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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/8/2007 6:43:55 AM

SweetAndInnocent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

you are entitled to your opinion bliss but the point la and i and i think some others are saying is that we cant judge...so much goes on in the head of a new submissive...

confusion; new socetity, new folks, new rules, new ways of thinking
going against society's programming; hard and scary
religious dogma; if she or he was raised like that and many are, its deeply ingrained
the chemical dump; the brain chemicals that are working out of your system, (ie; sub drop, morning after)
she might have had her period and her hormones could be skewy...
lust and love;....very complex emotions and hard to separtate them..
fear; yummy to play with, but easy to play too rough

thing is we dont know why she is weepy, and when folks get all soap boxy it can be counter productive to their mission, which is to identify abuse and stand up for the abused...if we start calling every thing abuse, then nothing means anything....you know?

like i said he seems like a young-an, not an abuser...just a little self absorbed...and who among us can say we have never been there?

but to me the problem is that he seems uninvested in the learning the lifestyle, and uninvested in her.

A few things here stood out for me. The first being the "subdrop" reasoning. I may be reading the OPs post wrong, but the way I read it, there can't be subdrop where there hasn't been a scene.These marks seem to have been left from anger driven beatings, not a scene. Everything there just screams nonconsensual to me.

The second being the "young'en" remark. I'd love to hear more about what led you to believe that this is a young dominant. I can see thinking he's inexperienced perhaps, or just a jerk even, but nothing to lead me to think he is young. I can state without concern that some of the most "bullying" dominants I have met were in their 50's and 60's.

This whole thread has me very greatful that we have a presentation planned in September for our local group, to be given by the NLA on "Abuse vs. Healthy BDSM".

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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/8/2007 9:39:52 AM

wfsubseeking1

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Nookie i don't think that it is wrong to discuss your feelings with another sub.

seeking

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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/8/2007 10:04:50 AM

crouchingtigress

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From: Maui
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetAndInnocent A few things here stood out for me. The first being the "sub drop" reasoning. I may be reading the OPs post wrong, but the way I read it, there can't be sub drop where there hasn't been a scene.These marks seem to have been left from anger driven beatings, not a scene. Everything there just screams nonconsensual to me.

sweet, i am not saying it is not abuse, all i am saying is that we cant judge, its not her who came here asking for help, its third party....in court this evidence would not even be admissible, because we are not even getting one side of the story only and interpretation of that one side....

yes from this perspective it shure looks dreadful, but i have seen this stuff so many times before just recently if i may reference you to this thread. and i think that when we all get up on our soap boxes and light our torches and storm this invisible guys castle....what does it serve? how does it help her...

but what if it is sub drop, and she is unaware that there is such a thing as morning after or buyers remorse that could be triggered by her religious upbringing and societal programing, what if she had no idea that play for many people includes the appearance of anger and that anger is used as a catalyst to trick the brain in to dumping chemicals to make the sub feel all whooshy...

i am NOT saying this is the case, likely it is not, one thing i am saying is he is just not that into her...he seems to me uninvested in her, or learning about this stuf...or learning the lifestyle in general...and i dont have enough fingers to count how many dominants are like that.

i think she should hear from all of us....who are mostly saying , "hey this is not serving you best interests....and here is why:"

quote:

The second being the "young'en" remark. I'd love to hear more about what led you to believe that this is a young dominant. I can see thinking he's inexperienced perhaps, or just a jerk even, but nothing to lead me to think he is young. I can state without concern that some of the most "bullying" dominants I have met were in their 50's and 60's.

yes i totally agree...i meant young as in green horn or newbie, age has nothing to do with it.

quote:

This whole thread has me very grateful that we have a presentation planned in September for our local group, to be given by the NLA on "Abuse vs. Healthy BDSM".

me too i wish every club did them quarterly

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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/18/2007 12:56:37 AM

servilecat

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As one of my favorite authors would say...and now for the rest of the story...i have read all the posts and there is so much good advice and concern and care it was easier to have them read the posts for themselves. This was after a great deal of discussion of course.

This lashing out has in their words been just like as if a child were doing something wrong in a store or at home and a parent would just pinch them very hard or grab their hair with no warning that they had done something wrong. It seems her main concern was over what it was that she was doing wrong.

It is resolved that this is a simple lack of self control on His part and communication between them. It is understood that this is not acceptable behavior in a person, a friend, a parent, a lover or a Dominant. This may be well and good for some but is not acceptable for her. i personally feel that if any man hits me without my permission, it may very well be the last act of a foolish man.
When it was related that, Would You do this to a child or a stranger and do You realize she doesnt understand what the offense was or the consequences are and has not consented to this it was as simple as, all she had to do was say so.....

The lashing was uncontrolled and maybe a little for shock value. i believe He overstepped perimeters that had not yet been set. It was agreed that with the proper communication and patience they could overcome this setback. Once they figure out what they both expect from each other and the relationship it should be fine. He seemed proud of her for stepping up and standing up for herself .

i will be seeing them again this weekend but as of today it is all very good.
Thank Y/you
servilecat

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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/18/2007 1:50:16 AM

mons

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serviilecat greetings

this is abuse if she cried then she is in trouble. i was with a man i thought love me and he was good at times. then out of no where is began to beat me badly. i was younger and thought this was normal i never told my family at all. but he would push me thorught glass window. i still have a scare that he made on my arm he was 6'2 240 muclse and i was so mad after he tried to killl me at least three time i did not know why i did not ask for help. this man she is will has a temper that he may black out. then wake not knowing what he did. my man raped me six or more time i was so scare of him i tthough i would have to kill or harm him to make him stop. that sad part to me is i was in love with a white male and my fmaily made me leave him my father and mother. they wanted him to be the one. well he was a nightmare a man who hated woman.i still love him for years. i left nj and came to ca to get away from him this how scare i was of him. when i did leave i made sure to write a dear john letter and his name was john. i made sure he never know where i was.

this young woman is being beating and abuse to the point where she must leave, if she does not he will do more the what he does. when a woman is beating to the point of bursie and she is scare she has to have friedn to help her, a woman shelter is what can work, their are many who love pain and it is fine. but when blood is drawn and bruise are so deep it bother her health. which is something more important thne many thing . i have spoken to some of the master and doms. there are thing they will not do a slave is value they are not good if you truly hurt them some do like to have breast play but to drawn out blood is crazy. i hope she can give help. many submisve and slave know what they are getting into. but this man trick her and now is hurting her to just hurt her. i hope is has left this man as soon as she can, thank you for writnmg this post i did aanswer it before . i wanted to explain more how she need to leave and fast.

take care and again thank ( oh he is a bully playing a false master )
mons

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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/18/2007 2:40:39 AM

MariaB

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In reply to the last post
There are lots of dominants that draw blood and beat till bruises appear and there are lots of subs that want that, so its not as ludicrous as one may think. The only difference is its consensual, where as a wife beater/bully is not.

As far as sub drop is concerned, one does not have to be into BDSM to be submissive. Forced submission is sadly all too common behind closed doors. Sub drop is therefore more than possible and here is an example.

A wife who fears her bullying husband cooks a nice meal for him to try and pacify his constant anger. He smiles at her and thanks her for the meal and for a moment, just a moment she feels a whole range of emotions from pride to even love. Those moments are rare ones but special ones and they are ones that give her the self worth she needs.
She continues to try and keep his mood light because she enjoys that ‘feel good’ feeling but then she ends up doing something to displease him and all is shattered. He berates her, possibly hits her and once again puts her back into her role of having no self worth.
She takes a drop ‘sub drop’
Not all women/men that live within unconsensual domineering relationships can break away and get help. Some abused believe its there fault and many victims still love there partner because of the constant head fucking.

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