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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 12:46:38 PM

Celeste43

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For the same reason people who like their jobs also look forward to going on vacation. It's axiomatic that the more high powered the job, the more that person is likely to want to give up control. It balances you out.

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 1:09:20 PM

subiugo

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For me -a submissive male- this is an odd question. Do you ask the same question about other traits of someone's personality? i think i am a humorous man, but can you imagine the question 'Why does this male feel the need to be humorous'? i do not feel a specific 'need' to be humorous, i just am humorous. i do not feel a special 'need' to be submissive, i just am submissive.

Maybe there is another, much more interesting question: why does 'society' feels the need to 'suppress' the submissive feelings of men? Why do we need a 'kinky' scene where we can liberate these feelings? Why i have to hide this trait of my personality so much in the society at large?

For me, i knew from the age of 5 that i had submissive feelings, i took until i was forthy two before i found someone who really could release these feelings. So, i am grateful to Supreme Goddess Lorena She made me accept my submission as a valuable part of my personality. (You can read more about it in an article on Her website... http://www.academyforslaves.com/slave-training.html or in a recent posting on my blog....http://male-sub.blogspot.com/2007/04/e-mail-and-e-motions_04.html)

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 1:42:56 PM

Padriag

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What makes a male feel the need to submit to a female in this BDSM way?

The same things that cause anyone to submit in a specific context. If you are looking for a single, specific reason, there isn't one. Why someone submits can stem from a variety of reasons, and how they submit and to what degree will vary based on that variable of why. Gender is, in my experience, the less significant question in this. There are some differences that can be generally attributed to gender differences (many of those deal more with how they submit, not with why, although there is a case to be made for a few differences in why that are gender specific), but I can't think of any that are universally true.

I also don't agree that there are more submissive males than females (in fact I doubt there's enough statistical data to make any serious comparison). My observation is that there are larger numbers of both submissive males and females than there are dominants of either gender. However, it would be important to describe in what context such a sampling and observation is being made... for example, just online, or just in one state, nationally (and which country), at a gay leatherman convention... such observations can be greatly altered depending on where you make them and what group(s) you are observing. I also believe the number of dominants can be further reduced if you separate out those individuals attempting to portray themselves as dominant as an over-compensation for their own insecurities, vs those dominants who are confidently asserting their nature. I also find a natural corallary between that and what you find in leadership studies and training, leaders are always the exception in any group. However, you find leaders among both genders and men are not naturally more inclined to be leaders than women, though they may have socially received more encouragement in the past and may have learned more social skills useful in leadership as a result. That is less true today in large part because those traditional gender roles have been overturned to a great extent though it could probably be argued young men still have a marginal advantage.

If you simply want to examine the variety of general reasons why someone might choose to submit, I could endeavor to expound on that, but there are likely very few examples I could give that would be gender specific.

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 1:57:26 PM

Padriag

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subiugo

For me -a submissive male- this is an odd question. Do you ask the same question about other traits of someone's personality? i think i am a humorous man, but can you imagine the question 'Why does this male feel the need to be humorous'? i do not feel a specific 'need' to be humorous, i just am humorous. i do not feel a special 'need' to be submissive, i just am submissive.

Actually, I do ask those questions... but then studying human psychology is something of a hobby of mine.

quote:

Maybe there is another, much more interesting question: why does 'society' feels the need to 'suppress' the submissive feelings of men? Why do we need a 'kinky' scene where we can liberate these feelings? Why i have to hide this trait of my personality so much in the society at large?

The short answer would be essentially this, because in the past it had survival value. Eventually that became customary even when its value as a survival behavior had become disconnected. Western society to this day highly prizes power, freedom, individuality, assertiveness, etc. for the very same reasons, in the past they had survival value. And though they are still highly valued by society, the irony is that for much of modern society they no longer have survival value. In fact, they can be detrimental. Try asserting your "power" "freedom" and individuality too much at work (beyond whatever your employer is willing to tolerate) and you lose your job, your means of supporting yourself and ensuring your survival. As I observed to a submissive recently, the humorous reality today is that submissives in general are probably better adapted and suited to survive in the modern world than are dominants, precisely because they are better suited to cooperation, submission, working in groups, etc... which are all traits that have survival value in the modern world. I pointed out that as both a dominant and an entrepreneur I really have no one to rely on but myself... if I screw up, I'm pretty much fucked. I must survive on my own ability because I am poorly suited to survive otherwise. To the submissive I was talking with, I pointed out, she has the advantage... she could attach her survival to mine on the presumption that I'll succeed well enough to ensure both our survival in this world. Yet if I fail, she can always find someone else to attach herself too, that's in her nature as a submissive... meanwhile... I'm still screwed. She got a good laugh out of that, and it is humorous... but more seriously, it is also very true.

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 2:12:03 PM

sjacket

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It's the same thing that makes me feel the need to inhale and exhale. It's who and what I am.

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 3:14:25 PM

MasterGremlin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Further to CuriousLords thread on Dom vs sub,and the oppinion that there are more submissive males than females,I have a question for others here.

Given that a male,his role in society is traditionally that of the provider,the head of a family unit,all this being said,what makes a male feel the need to submit to a female in this BDSM way,and for that matter,submission in general to either sex?

When ever I ask my Master a question like "why do you like *fill in the blank*" He says, "why do you like chocolate icecream?"

Because that is just how they feel, what they like/want/need. There isn't always a reason, sometimes it just is.

Cordially,
minxy

p.s. I always hate that analogy too

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 3:53:10 PM

Aneirin

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Thankyou to all here that have offered a reply to my question,that question being based upon searching I am doing of myself at the present.I identify as switch on here and an answer to Padraig's very informative post,regarding work situations,myself at work,I was one of those that did my last job very well,I was good at it,perhaps too good.I have always at work in my profession been a dominant personality,sometimes to the annoyance of my employers,in fact great annoyance which lead to my being made redundant as I would not tow their line,I got the job done my way,but to a high standard.Whilst at work,my desires with kink were of a dominant nature,I wanted to dominate.But now I am not at work,I find I have an overwhelming desire to submit,the dominant desires have faded into nothing.

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 4:32:44 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Given that a male,his role in society is traditionally that of the provider,the head of a family unit,all this being said,what makes a male feel the need to submit to a female in this BDSM way,and for that matter,submission in general to either sex?

You have the IQ of a Pineapple...right?

< Message edited by Griswold -- 4/5/2007 4:33:04 PM >

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 5:36:50 PM

spanklette

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Wow...in my personal experience, I have found it completely the opposite. The more dominant I am at work, the more I wish to submit in private. Maybe it equates to some sort of balance for me. Luckily enough for my Daddy, I'm the boss...so every day is an adventure in dominance and submission.

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 7:30:10 PM

Misstoyou

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Because he's smart and strong-willed enough to break the social conditioning?

Well, *mine* are.

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 8:36:18 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Further to CuriousLords thread on Dom vs sub,and the oppinion that there are more submissive males than females,I have a question for others here.

Given that a male,his role in society is traditionally that of the provider,the head of a family unit,all this being said,what makes a male feel the need to submit to a female in this BDSM way,and for that matter,submission in general to either sex?

Well, I think this comes down to a basic wiring in most animals; one will often observe a dominant member of a pack (the alpha), and the others (betas) submit to this member. Also, in some species, like wolves, there is occasionally one or more omegas that submit to the betas as well, above and beyond what is required by the pecking order. It would seem likely that this trait is present in humans as well.

An individual that is wired as an alpha will presumably have a greater desire to be dominant, and an omega might have a greater desire to submit. Also, for the betas, there may be specific influences that give them a sufficiently strong preference for either that it results in an interest in D/s, possibly due to many humans having some intrinsic need to experience this relationship dynamic in a more direct way than what society provides.

There being more submissive males than females is quite possible, there are few hard numbers available. However, I would point out that various paraphilias have a much higher prevalence among men, leading me to assume that this accounts for a lot of the difference. For instance, masochism occurs twenty times more often in men than in women. Also, submissive females may tend to be more discreet about it, which may account for the remaining difference.

All in all, however, does it really matter why? Each submissive is different, and I don't think we can generalize their reasons for submitting in any way that would be useful in dealing with the individual subs.

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 9:49:38 PM

joyinslavery

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Well, I think it's generally acknowledged that most sub males have inferiority issues coupled with an overriding need to be (generally) abused.

And that's not even to mention their preoccupation with sex (dirtbags).

My best adivce?...Stay away from them!

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/5/2007 10:52:46 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Further to CuriousLords thread on Dom vs sub,and the oppinion that there are more submissive males than females,I have a question for others here.

Given that a male,his role in society is traditionally that of the provider,the head of a family unit,all this being said,what makes a male feel the need to submit to a female in this BDSM way,and for that matter,submission in general to either sex?

That must be one of the great mysteries in life.
I have absolutely no idea what would compel a guy to do that.

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/6/2007 10:00:54 AM

stockingluvr54

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Given that a male,his role in society is traditionally that of the provider,the head of a family unit,all this being said,what makes a male feel the need to submit to a female in this BDSM way,and for that matter,submission in general to either sex?

I definately have a sub side that remains hidden and would only be exposed to a female I trusted deeply. If a man were to try and get pushy with me in ANY respect the testosterine would flow and I'd bust his face.

Why I'm like this I don't really know? Have little rt experience and just recently started to understand this about myself? I always knew that "something" was missing in past relationships? Always trying to put myself in the top or dominant "role" as I understood it to be from a society type viewpoint didn't feel comfortable to me all the time? From what I "think" I understand about my personal makeup I believe my submission has many different aspects and reasons for it? I never really had a father figure and my mother has a very dominant personality. I've always felt women were stronger sexualy (than me anyway). I have a fear of rejection so by submitting the woman controls what she wants when she wants so no chance of rejection there. I do have some self esteem issues because I'm no big stud type and can't bang all night long. I get enjoyment when I can please a lady first and my pleasure comes second if at all. I love the scent, feel, looks, of a woman. All the feminine aspects of a woman I enjoy but I also have a fear or respect of their power? (if that makes any sense). For some reason a strong woman excites me and scares me at the same time?

I have a very dominant personality which has probably been ground into me from what society has dictated as normal. I control my surroundings well but feel that when a woman takes control that this average dominant "acting" guy can totally let his guard down and not have to play some role that has been ground into most of us males? That role is not the real me. I have a public side that most see and a private side that few will ever see......

I still feel the need to have some control and to be a good provider.

Not sure if all that makes any sense but that's the way I see it at this point in time?

< Message edited by stockingluvr54 -- 4/6/2007 10:02:21 AM >

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/6/2007 11:00:23 AM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockingluvr54

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Given that a male,his role in society is traditionally that of the provider,the head of a family unit,all this being said,what makes a male feel the need to submit to a female in this BDSM way,and for that matter,submission in general to either sex?

I definately have a sub side that remains hidden and would only be exposed to a female I trusted deeply. If a man were to try and get pushy with me in ANY respect the testosterine would flow and I'd bust his face.

Why I'm like this I don't really know? Have little rt experience and just recently started to understand this about myself? I always knew that "something" was missing in past relationships? Always trying to put myself in the top or dominant "role" as I understood it to be from a society type viewpoint didn't feel comfortable to me all the time? From what I "think" I understand about my personal makeup I believe my submission has many different aspects and reasons for it? I never really had a father figure and my mother has a very dominant personality. I've always felt women were stronger sexualy (than me anyway). I have a fear of rejection so by submitting the woman controls what she wants when she wants so no chance of rejection there. I do have some self esteem issues because I'm no big stud type and can't bang all night long. I get enjoyment when I can please a lady first and my pleasure comes second if at all. I love the scent, feel, looks, of a woman. All the feminine aspects of a woman I enjoy but I also have a fear or respect of their power? (if that makes any sense). For some reason a strong woman excites me and scares me at the same time?

I have a very dominant personality which has probably been ground into me from what society has dictated as normal. I control my surroundings well but feel that when a woman takes control that this average dominant "acting" guy can totally let his guard down and not have to play some role that has been ground into most of us males? That role is not the real me. I have a public side that most see and a private side that few will ever see......

I still feel the need to have some control and to be a good provider.

Not sure if all that makes any sense but that's the way I see it at this point in time?

It makes a whole lot of sense to me,I find I can identify with what you have said and it cheers me that at least another thinks on similar lines.

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/6/2007 11:17:14 AM

CdnExplorer

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I'm sort of the same way, though the background to my sub side is a little different. In every day life I'm pretty dominant, and won't take crap from anybody. I'm not particularly aggressive but I'm really stubborn. I don't bend at all unless something changes my mind. That comes from having to become somewhat independent at a young age I think. I always felt a bit of a submissive urge even when I was young, and family trouble had a strong influence in shaping the character of that side. It left me with some pretty big trust issues. I want to be submissive not only to let down my dominant side / emotional shields, but also to feel a high level of trust in someone.

I've done a lot of thinking about this and I know I simply could not be submissive all the time. My "normal" life strength / dominance is a major part of my identity. For the same reason I couldn't do a 24x7 D/s LTR. I don't have any real urge right now to be sexually dominant, but if I was constantly in a submissive mindset I'd start to feel a pretty big cognitive dissonance. Basically I'd feel like I wasn't being myself, but only acting that way because I was expected to.

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/6/2007 12:23:21 PM

SusanofO

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I read an article recently on the internet, that stated that male submissives were closer to their mothers growing up (or at least more influenced by them, than by their fathers), regardless of whether they are heterosexual or homosexual.

While I found that interesting, and think maybe it could be true in some cases, I question whether it's true as a general rule, as far as why males are submissive.

Because I've read lots of stuff about why I, for instance, as a female, am supposedly submissive (I was an abused child, etc.), and none of that it true (for me) - so I just am not sure what to believe. I guess I just take it all into consideration as a possibility (for some men), maybe.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/6/2007 12:25:11 PM >

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/6/2007 1:26:45 PM

CdnExplorer

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That isn't true for me at all, my mom stopped being part of my life when I was 8 years old. There's a lot more history behind that with on and off contact between us since then, but that was really the event that became the seed of my trust issues.

Humiliation and pain have no real appeal for me though, so I might just be a bit different from your "standard" male sub. This might have something to do with it.

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/6/2007 3:57:20 PM

SusanofO

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Yes, that's what I mean. When I read these "studies" and their "conclusions" sometimes, I find myself wondering just how many folks were interviewed, and how they decided who they'd be in the first place.

- Susan

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And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Why does a male feel the need to submit? - 4/6/2007 4:34:47 PM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer

I'm sort of the same way, though the background to my sub side is a little different. In every day life I'm pretty dominant, and won't take crap from anybody. I'm not particularly aggressive but I'm really stubborn. I don't bend at all unless something changes my mind. That comes from having to become somewhat independent at a young age I think. I always felt a bit of a submissive urge even when I was young, and family trouble had a strong influence in shaping the character of that side. It left me with some pretty big trust issues. I want to be submissive not only to let down my dominant side / emotional shields, but also to feel a high level of trust in someone.

I've done a lot of thinking about this and I know I simply could not be submissive all the time. My "normal" life strength / dominance is a major part of my identity. For the same reason I couldn't do a 24x7 D/s LTR. I don't have any real urge right now to be sexually dominant, but if I was constantly in a submissive mindset I'd start to feel a pretty big cognitive dissonance. Basically I'd feel like I wasn't being myself, but only acting that way because I was expected to.

I feel also I cannot commit to 24/7 or LTR because of who I am externally,that is real life etc,but internally,private I would like to be in a position where I could totally trust someone and be emotionally naked in their prescence,something I have never been,but yearn to be so.Trust being the word,when that is gained everything else will follow.

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