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RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 8:21:44 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Wal-Mart: Made for America's Children, by China's Children.

The thing is, most UMs throw that cheap stuff away and go for the tree house, the cardboard box, and playing with each other. At least that was my experience as a mother.

FB, bringing up deprived UMs in other parts of the world, you should know that the only ones that count are the ones that live here, and then it is usually only white UMs (look at how fast the media responds to a case of a white UM missing as opposed to any other race). And if we really want to get down to it, most people do not care about anyone but their own UMs in practice... read them on this thread, shopping walmart is good for them, so screw anyone that works there directly that is pressured to work off the clock and not spend time with their UMs. Screw the UMs that work in the factories that make their cheap shit. Screw the UMs not covered by medical insurance. Screw everyone because they want that shirt make in Bangladesh for 5 bucks. (They could find a better shirt in a thrift store).

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 61

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 8:23:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

greetings

I think this is a news item that is available for sale. The issue of Walmart and it employees healthcare has been well publized. Why Walmart I do not know, there are many many companies that do not have healthcare for their employees, most claim they can't afford it. The one I am working for now does not have healthinsureance for the over 100 employees, giving the "can afford it" excuse. The fact is there is no law that requires healthcare coverage for employees why Walmart is single out I do not know.

Yes I do shop at Walmart. I bought a portable fire place there that normally sells for over $100.00, I paid about $30.00.

They may seem "singled out" because they can afford it.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 62

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 8:33:19 AM

lockedaway

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Joined: 3/15/2007
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Good post!

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 63

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 8:41:25 AM

lockedaway

Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
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Pssssssst....I want to respond to your post quietly so I don't get inundated by a bunch of liberal pinheads who think what I'm saying is politically incorrect. I know what NAFTA was intended to do but it was a MISERABLE (shhhhhhhh dammit!) failure. We destroyed the manufacturing base of this country. We have made getting a college degree, or better, almost indispensible to making a living. The rest of the world buying our products has not, in my opinion has not helped the common man on the street one iota. What we have done is manage to improve the economies of every other country on the planet. Those countries do not acknowledge the U.S. as the well spring of their financial prosperity; just the opposite has occurred. Have we "created" more enemies with NAFTA? Probably not but we have certainly "enabled" more enemies with NAFTA.

(in reply to Totalmaster4you)

Post #: 64

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 8:43:56 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I am constantly called a "liberal", and I believe Ralph Nader is too, and I am completely against NAFTA. BTW please do not confuse neoliberalization of the economy with liberal politics... it is more of a neoconservative agenda than a liberal one... neo-cons and neo-libs are really the same thing.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lockedaway)

Post #: 65

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 8:50:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

If you don't like Wal-Mart, don't work for them or shop there. If you need a job, however, and you don't have much education and no skills then Wal-Mart will probably be an oasis for you. Reading the posts of people that think Wal-Mart is unfair is pretty hilarious. You get to rise in this country as far as your education, ambition and business acumen will take you. If you fail to do anything with your life, that's your fault not the government's and not Wal-Mart's; with one exception discussed below.

As far as factories closing down and moving overseas, that is NAFTA. I certainly wasn't in favor of NAFTA and while it has raised the living standard of the entire world, it has been pretty deleterious to the United States. Sure, we have cheaper products but they are usually of poorer quaility as well. Not too mention, we enjoy the cheaper prices at the expense of fellow Americans who used to have those manufacturing jobs. Thousands of American men and women started working in those factories in their late teens and didn't feel like they needed education because they could always count on those manufacturers or manufacturers like them. Those folks got the rug pulled out from under them with NAFTA. Frankly, I think it was better that the bicycle was more expensive and five dads across town had jobs. Economists say I'm both dumb and protectionist. Maybe...but many years have gone by since NAFTA was passed and I'm still opposed to it. The cheaper prices that we enjoyed will start to creep upwards...and have...but the jobs won't come back.

Good post, a lot to think about there.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to lockedaway)

Post #: 66

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 8:51:02 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

It is a dilemma as I briefly pointed out earlier. We want to help the workers and help the mom and pop stores, but we like the low prices. We shop there because the products are good and cheap. That problem is pretty obvious.

I’ll bring up another one. The supposed exploitation of foreign workers is not as clear cut as you may think. The factory workers in those countries covet these jobs because they are better than other jobs they can get. We can’t change the economy of the entire world to meet our standards. China is still Communistic to a great degree and believes they have the best system for their workers. I don’t necessarily agree, but I don’t know how to change them.

Another thing, when we talk about “getting” any corporation, realize a corporation is made up of stockholders. It is a legal entity with legal rights. It is no more than people banded together to invest their money.

Again, did anyone see the Showtime program about Wal-mart? It was on the BullShit show and I thought it would slam Wal-mart, but it turned out to take a pro Wal-mart view and slam the opponents in some very funny ways. It did make me think.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 67

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 8:58:45 AM

ExSteelAgain

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Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

I read back over my post and it sounds too positive to me. Let me tell you what I don't like about Wal-mart. I hate the way it changes the character of an area. Small towns lose their stores in the business district and large cities take on a big box store look in ways that spoil the architecture.

We fought the SuperStore that went up near me and lost. The thing is I now shop there often and I even wrote about one such trip in my journal a while back. The parking lot is full always. Maybe this is the look of the future, who knows?

< Message edited by ExSteelAgain -- 4/8/2007 8:59:23 AM >

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 68

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 8:59:36 AM

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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain
Again, did anyone see the Showtime program about Wal-mart? It was on the BullShit show and I thought it would slam Wal-mart, but it turned out to take a pro Wal-mart view and slam the opponents in some very funny ways. It did make me think.

Penn and Teller: Bullshit regarding Wal-Mart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65aLfKke7IM

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 69

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 9:00:05 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

Another thing, when we talk about “getting” any corporation, realize a corporation is made up of stockholders. It is a legal entity with legal rights. It is no more than people banded together to invest their money.

Keep in mind that as an ARTIFICIAL LEGAL ENTITY it's "legal rights" ( privileges, actually ) are whatever The People decide to regulate.

They didn't have to Incorporate to enjoy the benefits of being an ALE, but they did, and co-commitment with those benefits is the responsibility to do as The People say.

If it were, as you seem to believe, "no more than people banded together to invest their money", they could do it with a private contract, without begging The People for special status as a recognized Artificial Legal Entity, and then have no issues with needing to be obedient to The People.

But it's not. There are significant benefits for an ALE, and it's time to slap those bitches back down and remind them of their RESPONSIBILITIES. Or we could just judicially dissolve their ALE, and return assets to the investors.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 70

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 9:02:05 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

If you don't like Wal-Mart, don't work for them or shop there. If you need a job, however, and you don't have much education and no skills then Wal-Mart will probably be an oasis for you. Reading the posts of people that think Wal-Mart is unfair is pretty hilarious. You get to rise in this country as far as your education, ambition and business acumen will take you. If you fail to do anything with your life, that's your fault not the government's and not Wal-Mart's; with one exception discussed below.

As far as factories closing down and moving overseas, that is NAFTA. I certainly wasn't in favor of NAFTA and while it has raised the living standard of the entire world, it has been pretty deleterious to the United States. Sure, we have cheaper products but they are usually of poorer quaility as well. Not too mention, we enjoy the cheaper prices at the expense of fellow Americans who used to have those manufacturing jobs. Thousands of American men and women started working in those factories in their late teens and didn't feel like they needed education because they could always count on those manufacturers or manufacturers like them. Those folks got the rug pulled out from under them with NAFTA. Frankly, I think it was better that the bicycle was more expensive and five dads across town had jobs. Economists say I'm both dumb and protectionist. Maybe...but many years have gone by since NAFTA was passed and I'm still opposed to it. The cheaper prices that we enjoyed will start to creep upwards...and have...but the jobs won't come back.

Good post, a lot to think about there.

Yes, hopefully after we get rid of Bush we'll get out of "Nafta" and "Cafta."
The American People never wanted them in the first place.
"Nafta" is a colosal mistake!
As for China, who wants shoes that are "made in China?"
My sister bought a pair for work and they fell apart in two weeks!
The glue deteriorated.
"Hey, how do you like my new Chinese shoes?"
"Fifteen bucks! These babys should last for 2 whole months!"

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 71

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 9:06:54 AM

lockedaway

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Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline

Yes....Wal-Mart changes the landscape. In fact, it obliterates it. As a boy whose family owned a cattle ranch, I had the amazing experience of going to farmer's co-ops and general stores. Often times the general store didn't have something you wanted so you made do with something else and that was just part of the experience...the "Americana" of it all. All of those places are gone. Wal-Mart would come to a strategically located town of about 1,600 folks and every general store in that town and in every other town in a 20 mile radius closed down.

Yes....it is the look of the future. Driving on Highway 40 West through Oklahoma City, there is not ONE single restaraunt that isn't part of some huge chain: Taco Bell, Grindstone Charley's, Outback, Olive Garden....all mass produced, cultureless, shit food.

Is there an answer? I think so. Lower taxes, let people keep more of their money, run government in a fiscally responsible manner and it won't be only the huge corporations that dictate what our culture and what our landscape will look like.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 72

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 9:08:36 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

FB, to my understanding, it is well established in law that a corporation has legal rights. A corporation does have stockholders who can be hurt when we attack the rights of the corporation. Wal-mart stock, symbol WMT, is held by many small investors. It is not a privately held corporation created to limit liability or what have you. I trade stocks actively. I can tell you that I would be upset if a corporation I owned stock in, even if only temporarily, was attacked unfairly. Many of you in retirement 401K plans at your job may even own Walmart via your fund.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 73

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 9:12:11 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Yes....Wal-Mart changes the landscape. In fact, it obliterates it. As a boy whose family owned a cattle ranch, I had the amazing experience of going to farmer's co-ops and general stores. Often times the general store didn't have something you wanted so you made do with something else and that was just part of the experience...the "Americana" of it all. All of those places are gone. Wal-Mart would come to a strategically located town of about 1,600 folks and every general store in that town and in every other town in a 20 mile radius closed down.

Yes....it is the look of the future. Driving on Highway 40 West through Oklahoma City, there is not ONE single restaraunt that isn't part of some huge chain: Taco Bell, Grindstone Charley's, Outback, Olive Garden....all mass produced, cultureless, shit food.

You nailed my feelings too. Wal-mart is like a bomb went off around it and destroyed the character of the town.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to lockedaway)

Post #: 74

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 9:15:23 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

FB, to my understanding, it is well established in law that a corporation has legal rights. A corporation does have stockholders who can be hurt when we attack the rights of the corporation. Wal-mart stock, symbol WMT, is held by many small investors. It is not a privately held corporation created to limit liability or what have you. I trade stocks actively. I can tell you that I would be upset if a corporation I owned stock in, even if only temporarily, was attacked unfairly. Many of you in retirement 401K plans at your job may even own Walmart via your fund.

Have I attacked walmart unfairly or just presented information about this company that you do not like?

The problem with corporate "citizens" is that they are not citizens at all. There is no individual held responsible when the law is broken on a massive scale, and they can pretty much do many things we private citizens could not get away with. They have more power than an ordinary citizen also, and our founding fathers warned of their power.. it is why we have anti-trust laws and monopoly laws on the books.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 75

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 9:30:02 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
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From: Georgia
Status: offline

Julia, no, you have presented a very real problem to me. Like I’ve said, I fought to keep one out of my town. It does destroy the ambience of a city.

To answer your other questions, corporations theoretically should be held responsible for their actions. I’m sure many don’t. I’m not sure where the founding fathers warned of corporations, though. Also, realize in the days of the robber barons who owned the large monopolies, that these were privately held. They were not publicly owned corporations with stockholders making and losing money with the stock.

The Sherman Anti-trust laws were definitely needed and are still used today. For instance, the two satellite radio companies, Sirius and XM want to merge, but provisions of the Sherman Ant-trust law, citing lack of competition, is being used to fight the move. If Wal-mart tried to join with Target, you would see the same thing.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 76

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 9:32:55 AM

KenDckey

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Joined: 5/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Have I attacked walmart unfairly or just presented information about this company that you do not like?

No Julia We should close down all big business, dictate who we can buy from and how much we should pay. Put in jail all those that own stock or shop at those stores and then execute them.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 77

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 9:43:54 AM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Have I attacked walmart unfairly or just presented information about this company that you do not like?

No Julia We should close down all big business, dictate who we can buy from and how much we should pay. Put in jail all those that own stock or shop at those stores and then execute them.

Public executions, with a pre-game show starring Bryant Gumbel and Newt Gingrich.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 78

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 9:46:55 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Have I attacked walmart unfairly or just presented information about this company that you do not like?

No Julia We should close down all big business, dictate who we can buy from and how much we should pay. Put in jail all those that own stock or shop at those stores and then execute them.

If you are intending to paint my position to be this it is a very dishonest portrayal of what I have stated on this thread. You are lying about my position, creating a straw man to support your own, typical form for you Ken, and rather expected.

Now you have stated this outrageous position and attributed it to me, please back it up with something I have posted, quote me and my posts that show this is my position. I have stated I did not want walmart to go out of business and that I have family that shop there. Now you can paint me anyway you like I suppose, but it is the opposite of an honest depiction of my position.

Shop wherever you like Ken, I do not think that you could be swayed from going to a sweat shop and buying directly from slave labor if it saved you a dime... keep defending the indefensible.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 79

RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 9:55:18 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Have I attacked walmart unfairly or just presented information about this company that you do not like?

No Julia We should close down all big business, dictate who we can buy from and how much we should pay. Put in jail all those that own stock or shop at those stores and then execute them.

If you are intending to paint my position to be this it is a very dishonest portrayal of what I have stated on this thread. You are lying about my position, creating a straw man to support your own, typical form for you Ken, and rather expected.

Now you have stated this outrageous position and attributed it to me, please back it up with something I have posted, quote me and my posts that show this is my position. I have stated I did not want walmart to go out of business and that I have family that shop there. Now you can paint me anyway you like I suppose, but it is the opposite of an honest depiction of my position.

Shop wherever you like Ken, I do not think that you could be swayed from going to a sweat shop and buying directly from slave labor if it saved you a dime... keep defending the indefensible.

Pot-kettle-black, Julia. What Ken offered was simply an extrapolation from the positions we've all seen you take time and again. What do you expect when you constantly wail about how awful it all is, but never offer us a solution? If all these entities are so evil, what are we supposed to think you want to do about it?

You aren't opposed to Big Brother, Julia, you just want somebody you agree with to get the job.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 80

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