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RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 11:32:00 AM   
poisonedprogress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I am soooo glad my Daddy is in a union, the strongest union in America... he is a longshoreman in LA, and their union is not corrupt, it is very democratic...

As for the rest of it, I take it you have no problem with walmart business practices... Good for you! Hopefully those falling prices will not fall on your head!


I never said all unions are corrupt, just that the American union system is highly prone to corruption. I'm sure your "daddy" is a nice guy, but the fact remains that unions like to get just as shady as corporations do, if not moreso due to their folk-heroish status.

http://www.nilrr.org/corruption.htm

I do take issue with some of Wal-mart's practices, but most of the problems you attribute to Wal-mart, Wal-mart has very little to do with. Discrimination and subsidization were the only two problems I really saw there. There are of course the various legal manipulations of Wal-mart which I am opposed to, including eminent domain funk and various zoning tricks, which appear to be conspicuously absent from your propaganda flick. As far as running smaller less efficient businesses out, I see no problem. Crime in parking lots? A joke.

For all your source-provision on all these tangential problems, you have yet to demonstrate how they will lead to... what is it they will lead to again? Something falling on my head?

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 11:36:46 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

various legal manipulations of Wal-mart which I am opposed to, including eminent domain funk and various zoning tricks, which appear to be conspicuously absent from your propaganda flick


Funny I did not find my name in the credits of the movie, I was unaware it was "mine"

That being said, everything is propaganda... you just choose which propaganda fits your worldview.

The movie covered that, I just did not list it, you should watch it and then you would know if it was propaganda or not... it really amuses me that people are attacking this without watching it... so reactionary!

You shall never know if my Daddy is a good man, I know he is, and that is all that matters to me... and btw... united we barter, divided we beg

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to poisonedprogress)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 11:37:14 AM   
poisonedprogress


Posts: 53
Joined: 1/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

There are many nations where The People have decided that it's the role of their Government to provide healthcare. As The People, should WE, rather than the insurance companies get a voice in government, I'm sure we'd do the same.


Surely you aren't suggesting that these governments have secret automated gardens where healthcare is grown without any inputs of resources at all whatsoever... Nations with socialized medicine hedge risk by having everyone pay for everyone's healthcare, it doesn't just magically pop out of the government's ass. Insurance companies are replaced directly by the government, who can finance any deficit with borrowing or taxes. Can you tell me what we should watch out for with socialized medicine that we don't have to watch out for with privatized medicine?

There's also the socializing of medicine screwing over the people who apply effort towards keeping themselves healthy, and provides a free ride for all those who don't give a fuck. If you happen to be well off AND healthy you get stuck particularly hard.

quote:

Up until "better service" you almost had a point. Unfortunately, when you suggest that Wal-Mart offers better service than a local mom&pop, you're obviously drinking the kool-aid.


On an aggregate scale? Does the mom and pop store have a phone number I can call to ask questions about products? Does the mom and pop store have a website with a store locator, inventories, and online ordering? Does the mom and pop store have movie and music downloads and a guy standing at the door to greet me? Expand your definition of service, and you'll see my point.

< Message edited by poisonedprogress -- 4/8/2007 11:39:42 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 11:42:39 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Surely you aren't suggesting that these governments have secret automated gardens where healthcare is grown without any inputs of resources at all whatsoever... Nations with socialized medicine hedge risk by having everyone pay for everyone's healthcare, it doesn't just magicall pop out of the government's ass. 

Of course this screws over the people who apply effort towards keeping themselves healthy, and provides a free ride for all those who don't give a fuck.


Um, you think that the privatized medical insurance industry does not make us pay for those who do not give a fuck? That is hilarious, of course they make us all pay for those with bad eating habits and living habits like sitting on their ass. The thing is we already pay taxes for the poor who do not get preventative care, so when they finally go to the doctor they have a major medical emergency that hospitals write off and get reimbersed for...

quote:

On an aggregate scale? Does the mom and pop store have a phone number I can call to ask questions about products?

I owned an online business, they had my cell phone number, home line, and email to contact me about my merchandise.


quote:

 Does the mom and pop store have a website with a store locator, inventories, and online ordering?

Yes, I did


quote:

Does the mom and pop store have movie and music downloads and a guy standing at the door to greet me?

Actually the small music store in my area does have that... they greet everyone.

Edited to add, what about mom and pop knowing that your kid has been ill, that your husband was promoted, that you like a certain brand of coffee... I call that service.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/8/2007 11:43:37 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to poisonedprogress)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 11:43:01 AM   
poisonedprogress


Posts: 53
Joined: 1/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Funny I did not find my name in the credits of the movie, I was unaware it was "mine"


You do remember linking to it in the OP, right?

quote:

That being said, everything is propaganda... you just choose which propaganda fits your worldview.


Pay no heed to facts and logic, huh?

quote:

The movie covered that, I just did not list it, you should watch it and then you would know if it was propaganda or not... it really amuses me that people are attacking this without watching it... so reactionary!


I've seen it before in a comp econ systems class. Where do they cover eminent domain and zoning?

quote:

You shall never know if my Daddy is a good man, I know he is, and that is all that matters to me... and btw... united we barter, divided we beg


It doesn't matter what your daddy is. Unions are spectacularly prone to corruption, and are no better than corporations.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 11:49:33 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

You do remember linking to it in the OP, right?


You do understand the difference between linking to something and producing it, don't you? Seems many people have trouble with that concept

quote:

Pay no heed to facts and logic, huh?


Actually I presented " mainstream articles to support my position, you have not.

quote:

Where do they cover eminent domain and zoning?


They covered it very briefly in the Inglewood case, not to mention they covered building outside city limits to evade taxes.

quote:

It doesn't matter what your daddy is. Unions are spectacularly prone to corruption, and are no better than corporations.



The link you presented was propaganda disguised as academic work. I could have presented source after source after source to bash walmart from organizations hellbent to destroy them, but chose the BBC, MSNBC, CNN to back up my points.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to poisonedprogress)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 11:50:21 AM   
alittleshy1


Posts: 2
Joined: 7/21/2006
Status: offline 		The dollar spent at walmart goes straight to the Chinease Government which owns ALL corporations in China because they select ALL board members and CEO's of ALL there corporations like the ones that produce 96% of all Walmart's goods by there own admission. The current leader of China is the man who ordered the massacure at Tennimen Square. AND the biggest build-up of the Chinease millitare in history. What do you think he has in mind for this army to do? ---------mop-up the US after the Nuke strike? it is time we stopped financing our own destruction and went back to protecting our own economy as our Government was formed to do. There will never be an even playing field for buisness and allowing Int, corporations to manufacture junk and poison food in China in China with what is slave labor and dumping it here for our un and under employed workers to buy with there "last dollars" is more then a disgrace it is nothing short of Treason on the part of our Government and buisness. No I am not some redneck-right wing nutcase. I am a North-East Liberal with an education in history and world afairs. and a low paying job in our dying economy. Walmart is just another nail in Americas coffin. I like a growing number of people will never walk through the doors of a walmart. Not just my opinion but that of a growing number in red and blue states alike.

(in reply to Slavetrainer2007)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 11:51:07 AM   
poisonedprogress


Posts: 53
Joined: 1/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Um, you think that the privatized medical insurance industry does not make us pay for those who do not give a fuck? That is hilarious, of course they make us all pay for those with bad eating habits and living habits like sitting on their ass.


I know for a fact that if you are sick, you are paying more for your insurance than the guy who is healthy. 

quote:

The thing is we already pay taxes for the poor who do not get preventative care, so when they finally go to the doctor they have a major medical emergency that hospitals write off and get reimbersed for...


Indeed we do. Sounds like some kind of socialized medicine or something...

quote:

I owned an online business, they had my cell phone number, home line, and email to contact me about my merchandise.


I guess you don't know what aggregate scale means.

quote:

Yes, I did


See: aggregate scale. 100% of Wal-mart stores have the aforementioned services. What percentage of independently owned small businesses in overlapping niches also carry the aforementioned services? If that percentage is anything less than 100, then Wal-mart has them beat.

quote:

Actually the small music store in my area does have that... they greet everyone.


And so does Wal-mart. They also have all the same CD's for less money. They also have cookies if you happen to be hungry, and socks if your feet happen to be cold. This is why Wal-mart will kill your small CD store... unless your CD store opts to carry niche market goods, like so many countless successful independent businesses nowadays... like the one around the corner from me that only sells local music Wal-mart is too big to pick up.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 11:58:29 AM   
poisonedprogress


Posts: 53
Joined: 1/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You do understand the difference between linking to something and producing it, don't you? Seems many people have trouble with that concept


Do you not understand how a link provided by you could be considered yours?

quote:

Actually I presented " mainstream articles to support my position, you have not.


I have yet to dispute that Wal-mart is doing any of the things you claim it is.

quote:

They covered it very briefly in the Inglewood case, not to mention they covered building outside city limits to evade taxes.


Where in YOUR propaganda film? Give me the time. You've watched it, it should be easy for you to find.

quote:

The link you presented was propaganda disguised as academic work.


And your proof of this claim is... where?


< Message edited by poisonedprogress -- 4/8/2007 11:59:02 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 11:59:06 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I know for a fact that if you are sick, you are paying more for your insurance than the guy who is healthy. 


That is not what you said, you said that we pay for people that do not give a fuck... do you believe that everyone that is ill brought it upon themselves? That would be incorrect. There are many people that do not give a fuck but only end up chronically sick after years of self abuse, they got off paying the lower rate because their genes were better for years and years... I do not mind paying for people that are sicker than me, because that is what insurance is for, hedging that you may become extremely ill.

quote:

Sounds like some kind of socialized medicine or something...


Not quite, we are paying for insurance companies and socialized medicine... we get no benefit though.

quote:

I guess you don't know what aggregate scale means.



Yes I do, and I think that you are thinking of a business model that is becoming obsolete... more and more small businesses are going digital as well as being brick and mortar. And I believe this will threaten the big corporations.


quote:

See: aggregate scale. 100% of Wal-mart stores have the aforementioned services. What percentage of independently owned small businesses in overlapping niches also carry the aforementioned services? If that percentage is anything less than 100, then Wal-mart has them beat.


See above response.
quote:

And so does Wal-mart. They also have all the same CD's for less money. They also have cookies if you happen to be hungry, and socks if your feet happen to be cold. This is why Wal-mart will kill your small CD store... unless your CD store opts to carry niche market goods, like so many countless successful independent businesses nowadays... like the one around the corner from me that only sells local music Wal-mart is too big to pick up.


Walmart has seen a decrease in sales... so perhaps the Goliath can be slayed.... I believe it can be. I know a lot of my niche customers appreciated online small business. I was in the black in a year, and the only reason I quit doing it was to take care of an ailing family member.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to poisonedprogress)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 12:03:50 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Do you not understand how a link provided by you could be considered yours?


Um, no I do not understand that... laughing, it really is a silly assertion on your part... puhlease.

quote:

Where in YOUR propaganda film? Give me the time. You've watched it, it should be easy for you to find.


I am not going to dignify this with a response... really...

quote:

And your proof of this claim is... where?


quote:

34.  The Institute's primary function is to act as a research facility for the general public, scholars and students.  It provides the supplementary analysis and research necessary to expose the inequities of compulsory unionism.


http://www.nilrr.org/program.htm

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to poisonedprogress)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 12:11:20 PM   
poisonedprogress


Posts: 53
Joined: 1/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

That is not what you said, you said that we pay for people that do not give a fuck... do you believe that everyone that is ill brought it upon themselves? That would be incorrect.


That is not what I said. I said people who do not take care of themselves get a free ride with socialized medicine, and they do. I said nothing of people who just get sick.  

quote:

There are many people that do not give a fuck but only end up chronically sick after years of self abuse, they got off paying the lower rate because their genes were better for years and years... I do not mind paying for people that are sicker than me, because that is what insurance is for, hedging that you may become extremely ill.


What the hell are you talking about? People who don't bother taking care of themselves now have better genes somehow?

quote:

Not quite, we are paying for insurance companies and socialized medicine... we get no benefit though.


The poor people pay nothing, everyone else pays tons. Socialized medicine.

quote:

Yes I do, and I think that you are thinking of a business model that is becoming obsolete... more and more small businesses are going digital as well as being brick and mortar. And I believe this will threaten the big corporations.


Indeed it will, especially as big box companies like Wal-mart push more and more businesses into niche markets. This does not change the fact that Wal-mart has more to offer than pretty much any given independently owned small business operating within the same niches.

quote:

See above response.


The above response in no way addresses my point here... and if the above response is true, then Wal-mart is a marginal threat at best.

quote:

Walmart has seen a decrease in sales... so perhaps the Goliath can be slayed.... I believe it can be. I know a lot of my niche customers appreciated online small business. I was in the black in a year, and the only reason I quit doing it was to take care of an ailing family member.


Of course it can. It has increased competition both from other big boxers and the numerous niche businesses that have sprung up around it.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 12:20:19 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Wal-mart has more to offer than pretty much any given independently owned small business operating within the same niches.


I  do not miss walmart shopping. Their employees never know where anything is, they have no product knowledge. Their store often has cheap shoddily made crap in it. They  have mass produced garbage that lacks personal identity and craftsmanship. Their stores are ugly, poorly ventilated, and have lighting in them that makes me feel boxed in. I walked into my local walmart recently with my mother to help her get her tire repaired... she had bought them at walmart, so there was a guarantee still on them... nothing had changed from the last walmart I had walked into... same old scary disgusting place.

I have read they censor the type of books they will carry too, I cannot even imagine shopping for music or books there. Give me Amazon any day!

So what you may consider competitive many people do not, and like I said, more and more people do not want to shop there... we can't all be wrong, right?


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to poisonedprogress)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 12:29:49 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: poisonedprogress

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Um, no I do not understand that... laughing, it really is a silly assertion on your part... puhlease.


I'm not sorry you're a dumbass then.

quote:

I am not going to dignify this with a response... really...


Then your bullshit assertions remain unproven.

As for your criticism of my source, I refer you to the bibliography of the article I cited, AND the credentials of the author...

http://www.nilrr.org/corruption.htm#notes Thats a whole lot of mainstream sources...


You know, name calling is against the TOS for this site... this conversation is over as far as I am concerned, anyone that needs to call names has basically lost their ability to debate me further...

edited to add, the walmart bashing sites also cite their sources...and so does the "propaganda movie" I presented...too funny

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/8/2007 12:31:12 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to poisonedprogress)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 12:30:45 PM   
poisonedprogress


Posts: 53
Joined: 1/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I  do not miss walmart shopping. Their employees never know where anything is, they have no product knowledge. Their store often has cheap shoddily made crap in it. They  have mass produced garbage that lacks personal identity and craftsmanship. Their stores are ugly, poorly ventilated, and have lighting in them that makes me feel boxed in. I walked into my local walmart recently with my mother to help her get her tire repaired... she had bought them at walmart, so there was a guarantee still on them... nothing had changed from the last walmart I had walked into... same old scary disgusting place.

I have read they censor the type of books they will carry too, I cannot even imagine shopping for music or books there. Give me Amazon any day!

So what you may consider competitive many people do not, and like I said, more and more people do not want to shop there... we can't all be wrong, right?


No subjective assessment can be wrong by any means. The millions and millions and millions of people who DO want to shop there seem to think otherwise though. They can't all be wrong, right?

I find it funny that they'll sell guns right next to their "clean" music and books.

< Message edited by poisonedprogress -- 4/8/2007 12:32:18 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 12:37:47 PM   
poisonedprogress


Posts: 53
Joined: 1/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You know, name calling is against the TOS for this site... this conversation is over as far as I am concerned, anyone that needs to call names has basically lost their ability to debate me further...


You have yet to demonstrate any ability to debate. You took issue with me calling the propaganda film that YOU cited as yours. Your inability to understand this very simple concept led me to conclude that you have a poor understanding of the intricacies of the english language. I was wrong to call you a dumbass, and I'm sorry, but your grasp of the english language and its intricacies is rudimentary at best. Your decision to harp on my use of a possessive in referrence to your posting was not necessary at all, and completely irrelevant.

quote:

edited to add, the walmart bashing sites also cite their sources...and so does the "propaganda movie" I presented...too funny


Now would be a good time for you stop making crap up and pretending I said it. I have yet to dispute any of your sources, so rather than pretending that your sources are under attack, perhaps you should go about addressing some of the things I actually say... maybe...?

< Message edited by poisonedprogress -- 4/8/2007 12:41:28 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 12:40:04 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

your grasp of the english language and its intricacies is rudimentary at best


You know, being insulting is rather unbecoming of you, and completely unnecessary.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to poisonedprogress)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 12:46:15 PM   
poisonedprogress


Posts: 53
Joined: 1/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You know, being insulting is rather unbecoming of you, and completely unnecessary.


Really?

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Do you not understand how a link provided by you could be considered yours?


Um, no I do not understand that... laughing, it really is a silly assertion on your part... puhlease.

quote:

Where in YOUR propaganda film? Give me the time. You've watched it, it should be easy for you to find.


I am not going to dignify this with a response... really...


I'll keep that in mind.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 12:49:27 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I did not say you did not understand the english language, nor did I state that you were a dumbass... you seem to have lost complete emotional control over yourself... please return to the thread when you have calmed down. I do not want to engage with someone that seems to have lost their temper.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to poisonedprogress)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Walmart - High Cost of Low Prices - 4/8/2007 12:54:31 PM   
poisonedprogress


Posts: 53
Joined: 1/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I did not say you did not understand the english language, nor did I state that you were a dumbass...


No. You claimed that my use of perfectly reasonable english was silly. You also refused to dignify my request for proof of your claims with a response, both of which are most definitely insulting. 

quote:

you seem to have lost complete emotional control over yourself... please return to the thread when you have calmed down. I do not want to engage with someone that seems to have lost their temper.


Feel free to climb off your hypocritical high horse at any time and engage me in civil debate.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 120
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